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Discussion in 'Make Money Online' started by Aleksandr Prilepa, Mar 29, 2018.
There are other legal ways to get those figures, learning to bet. hehe Its way better
you'll have to verify them to make withdrawal which happens in 50% on average (meaning expected value generally) - you can't avoid this no matter what
wrong assumption - you either will deal with 'deposit only' bookie (game over) or serious one that takes care about the accounts and money going out - of course you'll take out money sometimes but you will face frequently a situation where you need to withdraw like 10k to clear a bonus 300 and the bookie won't do it (game over)
and there is more not mentioned yet and to be questioned, but I think you already started to look at it more critically so no need to continue
justs forget bonus hunting for while - the key point is what you can provide that others can't - to make it clear
* can you open and verify tens or hundreds of skrill/neteller fake accounts? maybe get cards for them? I don't see how but maybe you know
* can you open and verify tens or hundreds of accounts on betfair or on A-class bookies like bet365, william hill, ladbrokes, maybe pinnacle, sbobet, ...?
if so and you can guarantee the quality of setup (invest your own money to cover the risk until the successful withdrawal) then you have a value, I mean big value
in any case forget your 6 figure profit per month - no one will give you that for fake accounts nor you can get this from scalping bonuses - doesn't mean you can't get nice 4-5 figure revenue providing unique high quality service - depends whether it's enough for you or not - if you need more then learn how to bet as someone already suggested
Hasn't been my experience thusfar but then again my sample has been small. I make my decisions based on data and data only so I will scale it and then based on the results decide whether or not to continue. Thank you for your input regardless.
P.S. Regarding the fake skrill/neteller/bookies service - 4-5 figures / month and hassling around with customer service etc. isn't worth it for me at this point. I've provided various services in the past which made roughly low to mid 5 figures every month and eventually I ended up selling them or closing them down.
Interesting project you guys have going here!
There are still bookies that give you reload bonusses whenever your balance is 0. I get 150 eur every month that way which is nice for 5min of work.
Anyways, I have been doing bonus scalping for quite a while now and would love to have a conversation with you sharing experiences if you‘d like - just sent me a pm
these bookies have poor (or unknown) reputation and you can do it only for a while - once your funds will end at this bookie instead of the other (preferred) side you'll have to ask for withdrawal - this is the end of your reload bonus and you'll be very lucky to get your money, in the worse case you'll find out it's a "deposit only" bookie and the magic is gone
15 or 10 years ago there was an opportunity - in 2018 it's not possible any more - at least not efficient enough and worth the hassle
if it works for you good for you...
I have withdrawn 6 times, as I was always unlucky enough to win over there. Bookie has quite a good rep, struck a bit of a goldmine I know
As someone who makes those 6 figures with value betting I can tell you... that is the only way to make money on gambling.
It is possible to get hundreds of e-wallet + betting accounts (not for free), but you are better to not waste them on something so primitive as bonus chasing. Most bookmakers restricted signup and reload bonus if deposit was made through e-wallet. If you can get hundreds of accounts on soft bookie like b365, you can find an easy with edge with real betting there, compare to lets say Pinnacle, where on top leagues there will be no more than 5% edge (if you are really good). You can offset it with the wage you place. Good luck.
Interested to know how you could achieve an edge with a soft bookie. Are we talking about arbing now?
As everybody on the market soft bookies as well as the professional ones make mistakes, lots of mistakes... and offering bets with positive equity. It's really that simple, you just have to pick up the free money laying in front of you. But there are a few key questions. Can you find it? Can you get the money out (in the long-term)? Can you do it without being identified as a successful bettor and eliminated?
I thought about doing this at some point.. Here is what I think:
* At that scale the limiting factor becomes liquidity in the exchanges; after a while you will struggle to find enough people to back your bets
* Bookies will probably catch on that something is amiss -- already matched betting is losing steam due to so many people jumping on the bandwagon and bookies reducing bonus offers.... What was a 50 bonus last year is now a 25...
* How are you going to process that many payments? As void said you will need at least 500 accounts a month. Nearly all bookies require a credit/debit card for bonus offers. T&C's explicitly exclude Skrill and Neteller. A few will let you use paypal, but then paypal will freeze your account if you sign up and start sending payments to a bunch of bookies (It happened to me, I lost 350 that way...)
However a few notes:
* You can reduce your verification cost by merging accounts which require verification (dump one account into the other by betting opposite ways...), providing you are using solid bookies that will pay
* I also feel like if you can pull this off your skill and talent is wasted...
How did you get on with the idea?
There is no way to make money on bonus offers right now. If you can manage to have hundreds of verified accounts (connected to verified wallets) you can easily make money on soft bookies. Their opening lines on lower football, tennis, basketball leagues are really crap. You just need to be devoted and do some math. The biggest issue for ppl making a lot of money through betting with soft bookies is how to get money out of e-wallets. You can not just send it to your real wallet and withdraw on bank account. In the best case you will get them out in the form of cash - which is nothing more than a lifetime supply of food. As I know this betting environment, I think about connecting ppl with different needs. Bettors who need to invoice some income in companies vs Business ppl who wants to minimaze taxes in their companies through expenses (paying some invoices) or just getting some cash for personal use without paying dividends tax etc.
I disagree with you regarding cash.. Are you saying that if I give you $10,000 a month all you're going to do with it is get fat? It's not just food you can buy, it also covers clothes, watches, jewelry, small vehicles, drugs, women, ... And if the money isn't terribly dirty you can just spend it straight off the digital wallet: e.g. use it to buy plane tickets and holidays... And that's if you choose not to launder the money to make it legit.
I'm curious about what you're saying about soft bookies though. If the opening lines are really crap, why do you need hundreds of accounts to profit from it? If the price is too high, buy. Or am I missing something?
Yeah, of course. You can spend on things like this... but if you intend to invest the money into stocks or real estate, I can assure you... no bank / broker will take your I made it from the betting story. Why do you need hundreds of accounts? Because on the markets with crap lines are usually lower limits, so to place at least couple thousands you need to have more accounts. Soft bookies limit your account after they spot you have some edge on them (in many cases it is just one bet). After they limit you, you can withdraw money and the accepted bets are still on, but on future bets there is always max bet like 0,2 EUR or so. Only casino is still without limits (obviously). So that is why.
But I think the banks could believe that your restaurant had loads of customers..
I think realistically, you can spend 2-3k a month on food/clothes/luxuries, and save your salary from your normal job for banking and real estate. It is always useful to have some sort of real job... And then if you start to make more than 2-3k a month you can buy a restaurant ....
this is nonsense - at least in Europe (and I surely in the most countries globally where gambling is allowed) this is perfectly fine - you just will be requested to show your betting account statement and maybe pay some taxes (in case you are a resident in some fucked up country like US, France,, ...)
the reason why you don't want to do it is disclosing your source/strategy of cashing out because it's part of your know how - but this is a completely different story
all that is true when it's your own account - with multiaccounting (as the only way how to make serious money with soft bookies) it's of course a big problem and you just have to spend your cash or find someone who want's your cash in exchange for a legit income (and here come the taxes which make it inefficient)
hard life of the bettors
Yes, multiaccounting is the problem. Even if you show screenshots of your 3rd party accounts, withdrawals and then they send you the money as gift, nobody will believe this story. That is what I mentioned in my innitial post. "I think about connecting ppl with different needs. Bettors who need to invoice some income in companies vs Business ppl who wants to minimaze taxes in their companies through expenses (paying some invoices) or just getting some cash for personal use without paying dividends tax etc." this could work, personally most bettors (incl. me) would be OK with paying corporate income tax...
Most ppl I know from this world make like 20-30k a month (sometimes even 6 figure). A restaurant could help but in Europe you have to pay VAT and then Corporate income tax. So you left with maybe 0,4eur from 1 eur (after pricing in the restaurant cost also) you have made LEGALLY through betting.
if you're living from multiaccount betting, have problem with cashing it out and (surprisingly enough for me) you are OK with paying corporate income tax (say something between 15-30% depending on the jurisdiction) then there is nothing easier than "running" a software company developing e.g. a "betting automation software" (say something like BetAngel) and getting paid monthly fees (or licences) for using this software from people (your multiple accounts) that are successfully using it for making their money - and you're good, I'm I missing something?
Cashing out is the problem (esp. if you need that money in the bank not in cash), but do not want go into details here on public forum. Technically, you are right and I am working on something similar you mentioned. The only missing point is that I have to pay VAT as well, which makes it effective tax rate of 30% (20% VAT + 20% CORP) + accounting etc. fees, which is a lot on money I have already made once. Right now, I am thinking about proper structure. Holding ltd company in my domestic EU country controlling a non-Resident Cyprus company (0% corp tax + can not charge VAT) which will conduct the business. Profits redistributed to the holding company as dividends.
If the betting account is in your own name and you're in betting friendly country (== gambling allowed and income tax free) then I don't see any problem. PM if interested to discuss this deeper.
Yes, you're right, VAT is inconvenient here. There is always a limit for turnover before your company has to deal with VAT. If you need to cash out more money you need more companies to split the overall turnover. I'm sure this can be easily done without any expertise for 20% in total without limits. Much cheaper with the right setup and little bit of optimization.
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