Countries with less red-tape, private property and personal freedom?

[marioIT]

Hello. Usually people ask for 0 taxes places. I had a conversation with my European friends and have another question.
We are all have experience in EU and know what it means to be regulated to death... in some way or another we feel being limited by rules/laws etc

• name the best country/states in the western world with less red-tape and regulations. Mostly for personal freedom but with a good business/wealth/tax compromise.

By personal I mean freedom to do (almost) whatever I want in my own land/with my own properties without having a thousand of regulations and taxes for every small thing?
Many of us still have the dream to own a decent mansion in the countryside of this utopia country, with lots of land around. A decent place to retire and have fun with expensive diy/hobbies.

e.g. stuff we do with my group of friends:
- if I want to add a pool in my backyard, don't need to ask permissions to three agencies, fill dozens of forms and ending paying way more taxes because of it; I want to be able to call my friend with the excavator and dig it right now.
- have sport/racing cars/motorcycles maybe with modifications installed, and the inspection or insurance or police will not piss me off about every little different bolt than factory, or for a different engine or suspensions or wheels... (as long as it's safe, brakes, steers and it's not rusted to death);
- I want to build a wood gazebo in my garden or tile a part of it, shouldn't have to file/wait for permits for like 50 tiles and a couple of wheel barrows of concrete;
- if I need to do anything with landscaping, I can do it without my envious neighbors calling police on me as I didn't know about the new environmental BS permit I needed to file before grabbing the shovel...
- want to land an helicopter in my backyard, providing having enough space and away from neighbors
- allow me to fly with a paramotor from my backyard like in the USA.
- etc, fly r/c models, dirt bikes, maybe guns (w safety in mind) etc

I am fine to have certifications/permits for structural and basic safety stuff.
Heck I am even fine to pay a small one-time fee for building additional stuff like pools etc as long as they let me do it the way I want and leave me alone forever.
I just don't want to file forms for every minor thing as nowadays is happening in western EU.

Is there such a manly country that tells you "live as you want in your own land, everything is allowed as long as you don't hurt anyone?"

 

[void]

I totally understand what you're talking about... my South African friend (who escaped to Australia to have some future - what an irony :|) repeatedly mentioned that you can get this kind of freedom in Botswana or Namibia... I didn't spend too much time on this but the truth is that you can get an incredibly big and beautiful piece of land for pennies - what the reality is and will be is another question

 

[John Spectre]

I could assume that the more the country is trashed itself, the more things that you called 'freedom' are possible there in practice.
But I doubt you seek an ultimately change your EU regulated country to some Somalia style shithole. Probably you look for mix of freedom/regulation.

What I could suggest is to try ex-USSR countries.
There (assuming that money is not a problem), you could build anything in your land without getting all permissions first.
You could own any sport car/moto with mods and even drive them with 200kmh on the roads in town and until serious accident you would maximum pay small fines for ignore speed limit.
You could own and use guns, even legally it prohibited it country at all, but many people have it.
helicopter, etc, and all other things are possible too.

But if you look for this freedom, you probably missed few points:
- your neighbors, can get drunk and start to shooting with their illegal guns at you. Because it's a part of these freedom.
- number of injuries in road accidents are very high. In case you want to drive car with mods, some drunk idiot could drive with his 15 years old but modified m5 and kill few people with accident
- your neighbors could build even skyscraper near your house without asking your opinion and permission.
I think this is a very slippery topic on the question of where the border of freedom and prohibitions should be, but ex-ussr it's a exactly something average in question of freedom between EU lifestyle and Somalia lifestyle.

 

[marioIT]

I am not into being reckless. The guy driving at 200kmh right out of my doorstep in town should be jailed, period. Even if he didn't crash.
But you are somehow pushing it, by telling me he went that fast because the car is modded. Same conversation I usually have with some older people, many times VERY dangerous drivers, that when there's an accident between a supercar and a regular car, they always blame the supercar without seeing the dynamics of the crash just because is more powerful.
BS. The 200kmh guy in town was that fast because he decided to keep his right foot down, not because the car was modded.
I am not only talking about engine mods, it could be bigger brakes, better tires, a different/custom interior/seats (while keeping airbags)

I am not against safety rules. I'd like a mix of the old USA, UK and ex-URSS I guess, not the full EU nanny state...
If I want to drive a sofa, in UK you can do it. If you want to build a car in your garage, in uk you can. As long as it brakes, steers, horn/light works during the inspection etc.
in USA in some states can be done. In EU it's MUCH harder/nearly impossible.
Why this guy can drive a road legal "sofa" in UK and the rest of the continent cannot?

I agree, this gets long easily and quickly misunderstood.
Yeah I think I should try the ex-USSR/balkans, maybe have the right mix for my taste.
Note that I could do (and some do) many of the things I wrote in the first post in western EU countries too (spain, portugal, italy, malta etc) by "oiling some gears", no matter what the laws say, many areas of those countries are as corrupted as the ex-URSS...
I could take a rally racing car (if it at least has a nameplate) and you can be sure I'd be able to pass the annual inspection in any of those countries without issues. Even with full rollcage, extinguisher, racing seats, modded, noisy exhaust etc. So what's the point?

- your neighbors, can get drunk and start to shooting with their illegal guns at you. Because it's a part of these freedom.
- number of injuries in road accidents are very high. In case you want to drive car with mods, some drunk idiot could drive with his 15 years old but modified m5 and kill few people with accident
- your neighbors could build even skyscraper near your house without asking your opinion and permission.

if the neighbor (countryside=/=city) would step into my property with a gun and tried to shoot me, no matter if drunk or not, he would be dead, period. And would like to live in a country that judged this as self defense, not like a murder.
If the same happened in california and I wasn't allowed to keep guns at home, the drunk guy would still have his illegal gun and I, law abiding citizen, would be dead.
Both with cars and guns example in your post, you said the guy was drunk. If he's drunk he shouldn't drive, it's not that he shouldn't have a car. Same with guns. If he does that by putting other people's life in danger, he should have all the guns seized imho.
A drunk man driving a car can do as much damage as a drunk with a pistol. I saw two examples in real life of both cases.
I also sincerely hope some other armed citizen would shoot him/call police that will take him down if he goes around brandishing guns while drunk.

Also skyscraper not an issue, I would buy enough land to have it far away enough. The council buildings though, with people smoking at the windows all day long watching you working your a*s on your land, while they are feed by your taxes... well, that's a thing that pisses me off for sure! skyscraper ain't nothing

 

[John Spectre]

I not push you, just said that as more freedom are in place, as more chance that people could use this freedom wrongly.
And just proposed you countries where you don't drown in bureaucracy with things that you are liked to do.

I am not against safety rules. I'd like a mix of the old USA, UK and ex-URSS I guess, not the full EU nanny state...

I think that main problem is you are look for the country, that should have pros from all above countries, but don't have cons of all these.

I do not believe anything like this could exist in real world. You have to put up with flaws, no matter it's a nanny style EU, irresponsibility of ex-ussr or freedom of certain things in the United States, offset by a complete ban on other things.

PS I certainly shed a tear when you wanted to mod brakes, tires, but don't touch engine
Sure, all moders prefer their cars to stop from 100-0 with 35 meters instead of 37 first, but not make 0-100 with 3.5s instead of 5.5s

 

[marioIT]

I think I get what you're saying... it's too big of a question unless we go into deep details for every sector.
We are going too much into cars and isn't really what I want to ask (btw I really have a car with big non-factory ceramic brakes and barely stock engine... but I'm not the random kid)
All the things I listed, aside from the heli landing in backyard and the paramotor, I can do easily in southern europe without issues. And there's good weather too, so that's a plus.
An heli landing though, even in the countryside, unless the land is very very big and registered as occasional airfield... will pass until it makes into the newspaper (very soon). Then they'll f**k you somehow hard. ask me I know.
of course you can fake an emergency landing for taking a sh*t, but how many times you can do it at the same place
Also sadly paramotor is not allowed to land/take off from your garden, unless you file as airfield. Even then there are many restriction compared to the USA.
Same for parachute.
So my issue is that if you do it as a business, file and pay taxes permits stuff, it somehow gets allowed. For personal guy that does it for fun in his free time in his own land, it isn't.

Maybe southern corrupted EU countries are the best for an European with thick skin?
In the USA where is freedom, Texas?
Russia/asia, pretty much anywhere as long as you don't parachute with an AR15 in front of the government palace?

Maybe I should just aim at building a giant gated community with friends so that there aren't envious neighbors around?

 

[Shlomo]

I think somewhere in the Balkans might be a good choice for you, perhaps Northern Macedonia? Good business climate, but lots of corruption, and very low taxes. From what I have seen, you can build what you want on your land, and pretty much do what you want. It might not legally be allowed, but it is not enforced.

 

[JackAlabama]

I totally understand what you're talking about... my South African friend (who escaped to Australia to have some future - what an irony :|) repeatedly mentioned that you can get this kind of freedom in Botswana or Namibia... I didn't spend too much time on this but the truth is that you can get an incredibly big and beautiful piece of land for pennies - what the reality is and will be is another question

Botswana, plus having the benefit of territorial tax, a somewhat proper visa and it being safe (for Africa)

 

[Martin Everson]

name the best country/states in the western world with less red-tape and regulations. Mostly for personal freedom but with a good business/wealth/tax compromise.

None in the Western world that I know of. If big brother aint taxing you then his watching you like a hawk. You need to think about the developing world to stand a chance.

 

[JohnLocke]

None in the Western world that I know of. If big brother aint taxing you then his watching you like a hawk. You need to think about the developing world to stand a chance.

Whats your thoughts about Cyprus, Gibraltar, Moldova if you not look at the official whitepapers about the tax- and other laws? I mean all this what is possible if you have the right connections but which obvious is not something the general population know about?

 

[Shlomo]

Cyprus and Gibraltar are definitely out of the question. In Moldova l think the mafia is too powerful, and instead of being at the mercy of the government, you will be at the mercy of a mafia that is like a state within the state. Instead of the government coming to collect its taxes, it will be the, mafia. If you somehow managed to stay very low-profile you should be fine, but what the kind of lifestyle described by the poster it would definitely garner a lot of attention.

 

[backpacker]

Northern Macedonia

No! They are about to join the EU which means good times are over. That is -unfortunately- valid for the entire Balkans.

If you somehow managed to stay very low-profile you should be fine, but what the kind of lifestyle described by the poster it would definitely garner a lot of attention.

This is the case in any 3rd world country. If one can not live low-profile, either move to expensive places like Dubai or pay high taxes.
It always puzzles me that people think that there is a magic place with zero taxes, low cost and high standard of living + zero crime. Guys, let me tell you that such a "Dreamland" does not exist - it's about time to make compromises.

 

[OJ333]

For now I can say Bulgaria is such a place. It is on the borderline of the "West" with enough stability (no war has been fought over the territory in a 100 years), low crime, no cultural marksist BS yet (yes, you CAN say the N word and you can hit on a girl on a bus stop and nothing bad is gonna happen) low taxes, safe cities (if you don't go into the gypsy areas that is) and yet it doesn't have a powerful enough government to act like a Big Brother. Currently the politicians can't even agree on forming a goverment and we are probably heading towards 3rd elections for parliament in the span of 6 months.

NOW, this is the big BUT - I don't know what your economic activity is. The country is great if you are making your profits from foreign customers / economic activity (like SAAS, ecommerce etc any thing digital) and you just live here in a nice neighbourhood and spend and invest. HOWEVER, if you want to have businesses related to the local economy and get big enough you will be dragged down by corrupt administration, excessive bureaucracy and the worst - at some point members of the Mafia will come and ask for their "share" or use political connections to bring you down.
However, if you have rental properties and stocks in the West OR digital businesses not connected to the country and just live here you will be mostly under the radar for the above mentioned Mafia since they simply won't know you exist and you won't get in their way. Pay your 5% dividend and / or 10% personal income tax and you're good

 

[Allisgood]

No! They are about to join the EU which means good times are over. That is -unfortunately- valid for the entire Balkans.

I think many people believe that but in my opinion that’s a bit premature. It will be 15+ years until this happens.

There is currently little appetite for EU enlargement and these countries aren’t even close to “aligned”.

 

[Martin Everson]

Whats your thoughts about Cyprus, Gibraltar, Moldova if you not look at the official whitepapers about the tax- and other laws?

Gibraltar I wouldn't bother with as it has endless red tape. They are also raising corporate tax to 12.5% next month (1st August) and then will raise it again to 15% very soon in line with global minimum corporate tax. They even raised annual cost of category 2 residency. Basically there is no economic stability there now since they left EU. They will use your wealth to balance their books..lol.

I mean all this what is possible if you have the right connections but which obvious is not something the general population know about?

Northern Cyprus (TRNC) might be be an option.

@marioIT Basically pick the highest scoring non European country from the Freedom House list below that you like.

https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores?sort=desc&order=Total Score and Status

 

[Shlomo]

I think many people believe that but in my opinion that’s a bit premature. It will be 15+ years until this happens.

There is currently little appetite for EU enlargement and these countries aren’t even close to “aligned”.

You are definitely right. I would say that 15 years is a very optimistic time frame for them to join the EU.

 

[backpacker]

You are definitely right. I would say that 15 years is a very optimistic time frame for them to join the EU.

EU enlargement on the Balkans is a done deal. Perhaps the official 2024 schedule gets a bit dragged by one or two years but that's it. We can discuss it in three years again and we know who was right.

Aside from that, membership aspirants are much more pedantic then their neighbours who already secured their membership.

 

[OJ333]

No! They are about to join the EU which means good times are over. That is -unfortunately- valid for the entire Balkans.

This is the case in any 3rd world country. If one can not live low-profile, either move to expensive places like Dubai or pay high taxes.
It always puzzles me that people think that there is a magic place with zero taxes, low cost and high standard of living + zero crime. Guys, let me tell you that such a "Dreamland" does not exist - it's about time to make compromises.

How did you come to that conclusion about "the good times"?

 

[backpacker]

There is currently little appetite for EU enlargement and these countries aren’t even close to “aligned”.

Montenegro and North-Macedonia are definitely "aligned".
Just one example: Montenegro had a prosperous citizenship-by-investment program. They stopped it because of a "recommendation" from Bruxelles.

Other aligned nations: Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine. Different schedule, different conditions and different structures. All three are very obedient when it comes to "recommendations" from the EU.

 

[backpacker]

How did you come to that conclusion about "the good times"?

It is a matter of perspective. A sovereign nation should act like a one, otherwise nationhood is obsolete. The EU is a hybrid organization. Same goes for the Euro: It is a hybrid currency.
It does not make sense to have fought a war of independence just 25 years ago (note: Yugoslavia) and now return to a hybrid Union by giving up most of sovereignty.

Since this is an economic forum: "Good times are over" was meant with regards to banking, residence, independent financial policies and relative ease of doing business.