I have 2 questions about going the UK

[bogdy23]

Hello,

I have 2 questions. The first one is if go to live to the UK from an EU country. How much tax do you have to pay per income? I`m interested in the higher brackets.
2. Is how rich do you have to be in order to not pay taxes in the UK I remember seeing a documentary that the QUEEN dictated that the rich don`t pay taxes because if they are in the UK they will undoubtedly do business and the country will prosper, my question is how rich do you have to be?
Thanks

 

[CaptK]

If you live and do business in the UK you are going to pay tax at 40%.
The only way not to pay tax is if your being paid dividends and you spend less than 180 days in the UK. You can not be actively doing business/run your company, you must only be a shareholder receiving dividends.

 

[bogdy23]

If you live and do business in the UK you are going to pay tax at 40%.
The only way not to pay tax is if your being paid dividends and you spend less than 180 days in the UK. You can not be actively doing business/run your company, you must only be a shareholder receiving dividends.

The Business is Day Trading FOREX and Betfair. If I hire a manager in the BVI? Or will I still pay 40%? And regarding the second question Billionaire like Roman Abramovici and others, it was for a long time the billionaire capital of the world. They all pay 40% (if they don`t hire a fiscal consultant) I know for a fact that the uber-wealthy are exempt otherwise why live in London it has horrible weather (great architecture but horrible weather)

 

[CaptK]

Abromovich is the owner of Chelsea but doesn't have an active role in the club. He doesn't take dividends from the club neither.

The club has a Chairman and and MD that run the club.

Sir Philip Green (british national) owns a lot of the major clothing retail shops in the UK. They are all owned by the company his wife runs in Monaco ( tax free state). She pays herself a dividend in Monaco from the UK company and they both spend less than 180 days in the UK.

Sames as Sir Richard Branson, who's Virgin Group is based in BVI and he lives on his own private island. He is a resident of the BVI and so long as he doesn't make any money in the BVI he is not liable for tax. He has a house in London but spends less than 180 days in the UK so he doesn't pay tax.

Biggest problem with BVI is bank account. I managed to get one for a client in Singapore with DBS but the KYC was a nightmare. In the end she gave them 2M on a 1 year term deposit. That motivated them to open the account.

To live in the UK tax free you need to be resident for tax in another country and like you said have your business run from BVI. Your staff also need to not be in the BVI as then your company is run from there therefore tax is applicable.
Your staff need to work elsewhere.

You would be better off in the UAE. Easy company registration, easy to open bank accounts, easy to get residency and tax free status. You will only need to visit there UAE every 170 days for one day to keep the residency. Plus you can hire staff very cheaply who can work from home. All serviced offices come with a receptionist service to answer calls.

Then you can live in the UK tax free so long as you dont stay more than 180 days in a year.

They want you to spend your money but not do your business here.
There is an option of starting a business on a teir 1 visa which is complicated. You must set up a company and hire staff and then you still pay tax on your profit. If you are clever and stay within the law then you would make a loss every year. Staffing costs alone would be about 100K. Plus office, accounting and other business expenses. This by default becomes your tax.

Portugal have a similar one which works out to 20K per annum.

Look up on the HMRC website, non domicile tax status in the UK. That will give you the official answers. Plus there is a lot of info on both billionaires and their structures if you Google it.

 

[khinkali]

@bogdy23 the zero tax you talk about it not to do with being a billionaire and Her Majesty doesn't get involved in politics or policy such as tax rates.

If you are not UK domiciled than you should look into the UK's quite friendly semi-territorial approach. As @CaptK has mentioned this is for passive income only, so if the business is managed offshore and you are just a shareholder then you might find the UK very tax friendly.

The Business is Day Trading FOREX and Betfair.

It's a shame that it's your main business, which would make it UK taxable income if you become UK tax resident. However, if you had some other business or employment and the spread betting and other gambling was just a very profitable hobby, then it's not UK taxable.

The zero tax on amateur gambling and territorial tax for non doms can both be quite complicated, especially in your situation. I suspect a good tax lawyer with experience of your situation could find a solution for you.

 

[CaptK]

@bogdy23 the zero tax you talk about it not to do with being a billionaire and Her Majesty doesn't get involved in politics or policy such as tax rates.

If you are not UK domiciled than you should look into the UK's quite friendly semi-territorial approach. As @CaptK has mentioned this is for passive income only, so if the business is managed offshore and you are just a shareholder then you might find the UK very tax friendly.


It's a shame that it's your main business, which would make it UK taxable income if you become UK tax resident. However, if you had some other business or employment and the spread betting and other gambling was just a very profitable hobby, then it's not UK taxable.

The zero tax on amateur gambling and territorial tax for non doms can both be quite complicated, especially in your situation. I suspect a good tax lawyer with experience of your situation could find a solution for you.

Great point. If you become self employed in the UK doing something "full time" then your spread betting and gambling is tax free if its done part time.

This is one area I can't even help as I have never come across it. But I dont pay tax on my crypto and forex trading.

 

[bogdy23]

Great point. If you become self employed in the UK doing something "full time" then your spread betting and gambling is tax free if its done part time.

This is one area I can't even help as I have never come across it. But I dont pay tax on my crypto and forex trading.

I`ve forgotten about Spread Betting as Higley leveraged products here are called CFD`s. The problem is that if I started a FUND and had guys analyze it, it would be pointless because I`m the kind of person who expects too much from others that`s why I`m at it on my own.

 

[CaptK]

I`ve forgotten about Spread Betting as Higley leveraged products here are called CFD`s. The problem is that if I started a FUND and had guys analyze it, it would be pointless because I`m the kind of person who expects too much from others that`s why I`m at it on my own.

A company doing anything really you could start a consultancy company. This is the company you pay your tax on and then the trading is your hobby and tax free.

 

[djaheim]

@bogdy23 the zero tax you talk about it not to do with being a billionaire and Her Majesty doesn't get involved in politics or policy such as tax rates.

If you are not UK domiciled than you should look into the UK's quite friendly semi-territorial approach. As @CaptK has mentioned this is for passive income only, so if the business is managed offshore and you are just a shareholder then you might find the UK very tax friendly.


It's a shame that it's your main business, which would make it UK taxable income if you become UK tax resident. However, if you had some other business or employment and the spread betting and other gambling was just a very profitable hobby, then it's not UK taxable.

The zero tax on amateur gambling and territorial tax for non doms can both be quite complicated, especially in your situation. I suspect a good tax lawyer with experience of your situation could find a solution for you.

Gambling is not but i think he says Forex trading, that will attract tax definitely i would think

 

[djaheim]

Great point. If you become self employed in the UK doing something "full time" then your spread betting and gambling is tax free if its done part time.

This is one area I can't even help as I have never come across it. But I dont pay tax on my crypto and forex trading.

What if forex trading is your full time job , you register a company as a sole director to trade forex

 

[djaheim]

I`ve forgotten about Spread Betting as Higley leveraged products here are called CFD`s. The problem is that if I started a FUND and had guys analyze it, it would be pointless because I`m the kind of person who expects too much from others that`s why I`m at it on my own.

How many lots in forex you looking to trade? you must be a pro and currently the forex markets liquidity is really low. so moving and out of positions could be a challenge moving big lots

 

[bogdy23]

A company doing anything really you could start a consultancy company. This is the company you pay your tax on and then the trading is your hobby and tax free.

I did think of something similar when I was about 10 years. The thought went as follows. Why pay taxes where you live when you can start a consulting company in the offshore haven. And say you paid the whole lot of your profit and leave a misly one for the taxman. The sad part everyone told me they are gonna get you. But yeah it would be great to start a consulting firm and pay everything to that consulting firm.

 

[CaptK]

I did think of something similar when I was about 10 years. The thought went as follows. Why pay taxes where you live when you can start a consulting company in the offshore haven. And say you paid the whole lot of your profit and leave a misly one for the taxman. The sad part everyone told me they are gonna get you. But yeah it would be great to start a consulting firm and pay everything to that consulting firm.

Its possible I know people who are doing it today and still pay themselves a healthy salary to keep the wolves away.

 

[bogdy23]

Its possible I know people who are doing it today and still pay themselves a healthy salary to keep the wolves away.

What country do they live in? is it a country like US or the UK. Or shadier ones, Estonia, Poland, Africa

 

[CaptK]

UK, France and Netherlands.

 

[khinkali]

Gambling is not but i think he says Forex trading, that will attract tax definitely i would think

Fx trading by CFD (contract for difference ) is treated like spread betting in the UK. You can't claim losses, but it's not necessarily taxed. The issue is that if it's your occupation then you are taxed, so you need to be careful.

Why pay taxes where you live when you can start a consulting company in the offshore haven.

Because most high tax countries have taxes on controlled foreign corporations, or tax the corporation on it's permanent establishment where you do the work, or tax you personally where you do the work.

Even countries with territorial taxation (e.g. Georgia, Thailand, UK for non doms) tend to tax you for doing the work or managing the business where you live. Doing consulting and/or running a consulting business is not passive income.

 

[bogdy23]

Fx trading by CFD (contract for difference ) is treated like spread betting in the UK. You can't claim losses, but it's not necessarily taxed. The issue is that if it's your occupation then you are taxed, so you need to be careful.


Because most high tax countries have taxes on controlled foreign corporations, or tax the corporation on it's permanent establishment where you do the work, or tax you personally where you do the work.

Even countries with territorial taxation (e.g. Georgia, Thailand, UK for non doms) tend to tax you for doing the work or managing the business where you live. Doing consulting and/or running a consulting business is not passive income.

I knew it sounded too good to be TRUE. I did think about setting up and OFFSHORE CORP. Adding a nominal director which "gives me" the advice but it will cause a lot of problems. As I mentioned in a previous post I have a lot of problems here locally because some members of my family are corrupt government officials and who will stand at nothing to stop me from achieving something they have taken parts from the COSA NOSTRA way of running a family and we all know the saying you either exploit other or you will be exploited. They exploit there own family so that they can have a master puppy dog control over us keeping us ignorant and poor and only endure not being able to fight back because it will tarnish the family name and so on. It`s HELL I was among the few who went to college and is actively trying to become something more. The rest just accept and are being fed lies they remain complacent.

 

[khinkali]

@bogdy23 I have no idea about substance rules but if your trading is automated then I wouldn't be surprised if a good lawyer could steer you around the tax problems.

Also I have no experience of the professional vs amateur gambling distinction, but if you're doing CFDs and Betfair I've come across discussions online indicating that people get away with quite heavy untaxed amateur trading with very small employment income.

You already pay tax in your Betfair fees, so HMRC don't necessarily benefit from making you operate as a business with tax deductions for gambling losses.

 

[bogdy23]

Hello,

Yeah, thanks for your help @khnakli . I`m not doing CFD`s they are too leveraged but I am looking at it as on option as spread betting and Betfair trading are tax-free in the UK. What I wanted to know from the beginning how do the uber-wealthy and how wealthy do you have to be in order to not pay capital gains tax @CaptK was very kind as to show me the difference what was misleading in the information that I`ve read meaning the Russian Oligarch`s live in the UK and they do business all over the world except the UK. And I was maybe hoping for a solution to a more favorable percentage number regarding paying taxes in the UK.

Also thank a lot to @CaptK , @djheim thanks a lot you guys for the effort and time to help me understand some things.