investing gambling money - offshore corp solution?

[void]

Let's assume following case:
* person with EU domicile and tax residency - let's call him Frank
* has regular income as self-employed and from his own company - higher than average but not extra high
* having serious income from gambling - let say about 1mil. EUR a year (which is about 10-15 times more than his regular income)
* winnings from gambling are tax free in his jurisdiction - so no need to optimize or hide for this reason
* Frank likes privacy
* doesn't want any body to know he has money from gambling or make this information as secret as possible
* Frank can transform any part (possibly all) of his winnings to cash (legal way) or regularly sent quite big amounts to bank accounts

Now Frank wants to invest his winnings - real estate, yacht, shares, crypto, whatever...
Franks has two problems:
* mosts of these things need to be paid from a regular bank account and he doesn't want to disclose the source of the money to such an institution
* he prefers to hide the ownership of such things from public and authorities

Can anyone suggest some idea how to achieve this? Maybe some offshore corp holding structure and the way to load money in...
If not possible nowadays what are main blockers that must be accepted?

Can you also give me some ideas where to keep the value in such case when Frank doesn't trust fiat money and doesn't want to hold huge cash?

 

[negon]

You setup a corp with fake or darks that simple. Get yourself a few EMI's with debit card and good is.

 

[icecold]

Without license you won't find any real bank that will support your business! Your alternative may be to produce a cover business to sort all of this out!

 

[void]

Without license you won't find any real bank that will support your business! Your alternative may be to produce a cover business to sort all of this out!

I'm sorry, this is my fault. I didn't even realize one can see it the way that the money is from running gambling business (possibly without license) - it's just the opposite - those are customer winnings from gambling, like if you would win on roulette. This is why it's tax free and there is no need to cover it anyhow.
The real question is how to invest such money without revealing the source and as anonymous as possible.

 

[void]

You setup a corp with fake or darks that simple. Get yourself a few EMI's with debit card and good is.

This doesn't make any sense to me, have you read my post?
Frank can get as much cash as needed and also make wire transfers. This works if he wants to spend 1k, maybe 10k, but not 500k - that starts raising unwanted questions.

 

[THR2017]

frank is a smart man but frank is f**cked.

Idea is good, execution isnt possible.

Whatever they suggest or offer Frank (they being providers) will involve too much risk for Frank.

 

[void]

frank is a smart man but frank is f**cked.

Idea is good, execution isnt possible.

very helpful and specific opinion from an account created most likely yesterday considering this your first post

Whatever they suggest or offer Frank (they being providers) will involve too much risk for Frank.

providers of what? EMI providers? Offshore formation providers? ...
what kind of risk?


I'm surprised not to get any relevant feedback so far - is this topic difficult, atypical or controversial? maybe no one wants to disclose any information for free?

 

[void]

nothing?

 

[diablo]

This doesn't make any sense to me, have you read my post?
Frank can get as much cash as needed and also make wire transfers. This works if he wants to spend 1k, maybe 10k, but not 500k - that starts raising unwanted questions.

You transfer the Money to a Cyprus non resident setup and pay whatever you want to buy from the Cyprus bank account belonging to the Company.

 

[void]

1) such a bank will (I believe) ask for information about the source of incoming funds and some proof (account statements etc.) - this is not very welcome but possibly acceptable
2) I'm obviously not an expert here but from what I know any Cyprus bank is obliged to report the ownership of account according to CRS to the country of residence of UBO - this is a problem

maybe we are looking for a solution that doesn't exist in this world anymore...

 

[THR2017]

Hey.. how's "Frank" doing? Any luck?

 

[void]

Frank is kind of unhappy not getting any response with some value from this forum. We don't expect step-by-step solution but maybe an opinion from someone with experience would be nice...
I also don't think this is too "special" case - it's very similar to the situation of someone exiting cryptocurrency position nowadays and looking for ways to invest with keeping reasonable level of privacy.

 

[THR2017]

Franks a good guy, no hard feelings. He seems familiar!

 

[void]

yes, Frank is very good, at least from what I know ;-)
why not to discuss the case if you are interested in this topic - that's why it's called forum, right? unless the main purpose would be offering services and giving positive references to those who pay... let's hope it's not the case

 

[diablo]

1) such a bank will (I believe) ask for information about the source of incoming funds and some proof (account statements etc.) - this is not very welcome but possibly acceptable
2) I'm obviously not an expert here but from what I know any Cyprus bank is obliged to report the ownership of account according to CRS to the country of residence of UBO - this is a problem

maybe we are looking for a solution that doesn't exist in this world anymore...

They will, you can setup a cover business to get accepted. You need to do some masking with the wiretransfers you receive to the account but that's easely done with some of the online EMI providers like transferwise or similar services.

 

[void]

any kind of cover business brings the necessity of paying some additional taxes in situation where there is no need for it whatsoever - avoiding this makes a legitimate business gray or even black

let's have a look at it from a different perspective and forget about what was written above

Frank has plenty of crystal clear (non-taxable) money he can freely and easily spend on common things like good food, car or traveling, you name it
the real question is how to spend much more for much more expensive things (we can call it investments...) and to keep this a secret
- on one side the process buying something like a house, land, yacht, .... which might be considered "higher-risk" and regulated transaction
- on the other long-term holding of such a property and future exit

once again - this is the problem of many people I believe and there must be at least some freely accessible best practice information - and if not freely accessible then point me to some consultants or pros that know what to do

where and how to keep the value and don't give a f**k what governments, authorities and other people think or want?

 

[THR2017]

So basically Frank has a ton of tax free money and wants to live a luxurious life but keep his privacy and be low key... true or false.

 

[void]

technically yes, but it's not about luxury or high live - not at all - it's about keeping the value and diversification of the "savings" portfolio
from what I know Frank does not believe in the future of European/Western order and doesn't trust fiat money anymore

 

[Milky Moon]

technically yes, but it's not about luxury or high live - not at all - it's about keeping the value and diversification of the "savings" portfolio
from what I know Frank does not believe in the future of European/Western order and doesn't trust fiat money anymore

Frank needs to express himself a bit clearer.

If Frank has gambling winnings, these are stored in his gambling account(s). These can be transferred to bank accounts. The gambling account can supply the source of the money. So these can be legally transferred out.

Now Frank want's to invest his money and not become known as a rich man.

Q: who cannot know that Frank has a seizable seconday income stream ? (what is Frank trying to accomplish?)
-- a: the tax man? (Frank stated winnings are free, how about assets, is there a tax in assets?)
-- b: authorties? (Which authorities)
-- c: misses Frank?
-- d: familiy relatives?
-- e: does Frank have debts, he rather would not payt?

Q: what would Frank be investing in, and where?

Q: does Frank expect this income stream to continue for the forseable future?

 

[void]

first of all thanks for your effort

Frank needs to express himself a bit clearer.

If Frank has gambling winnings, these are stored in his gambling account(s). These can be transferred to bank accounts. The gambling account can supply the source of the money. So these can be legally transferred out.

this is correct and the money is (as needed) transfered to several EMIs, regular bank accounts avoided because of CRS but it's not the key point

Now Frank want's to invest his money and not become known as a rich man.

yes

Q: who cannot know that Frank has a seizable seconday income stream ? (what is Frank trying to accomplish?)

-- a: the tax man? (Frank stated winnings are free, how about assets, is there a tax in assets?)
-- b: authorties? (Which authorities)

the income is tax-free but if the income higher than some limit it must be reported to tax authorities (this is the case)
- Frank is an ordinary guy living next door with other people and reporting something to the local tax office is not a good idea (yes, he can "move" temporarily to a capital city, but not every year and it has many unwanted consequences)
- the source of income is pretty unique and Frank doesn't want to disclose even a small info about where is the money exactly coming from which a tax man is approved to ask about (account ownership, statements, ...) and will do - it's like saying "hey, this casino has a broken roulette"
- also most Europe countries have mechanisms for controlling purchase of real estate to avoid money laundering not mentioning public registers of owners and free access to scans of contracts etc.

-- c: misses Frank?

not a problem

-- d: familiy relatives?

yes, this is a problem

-- e: does Frank have debts, he rather would not payt?

no hidden reason like this

Q: what would Frank be investing in, and where?

real estate - worldwide
shares in companies
expensive movables - boat?
crypto

we are open to suggestions - it's really about diversification, not about high life - although it could be hard to understand

Q: does Frank expect this income stream to continue for the forseable future?

yes, 2-3 years very probably, maybe longer, most definitely not over 5 years