Question Low budget tax residency

[gansu]

Hi,

German citizen here. Currently in Indonesia with no intention to return to Germany in the coming months.
I currently study and am not dependent on local income.

I’m so far still a German tax resident, but don’t really see much sense in continuing to be, as taxes are high and I’m paying taxes on my stock market investments.
Crypto I don't really have to pay as I can either fly under the radar or just hold for 1 year.

Therefore want to move my tax residency soon. To not pay taxes with my German brokers, I would need a Certificate of Residency from the new country I’m residing in.
Planning on switching to non-German brokers, but that would still require me to pay taxes.

Country wise, Indonesia won’t work as far as I know, as I’m here on a short term business visa.
I think keeping EU residency would be beneficial for me at this point and Ireland and Malta look good.
Just right now it doesn’t really make sense for me to fly to there and do rent a place and do things onsite due to Covid etc. Also I don’t really wanna spend much time in the EU at the moment.

Are there some good options for me to get an official residency in my situation?

I can get a South American passport fairly easy and would like to visit soon.
The country in question used to not have taxes on foreign sourced income, but has it now, to a lower degree.
I'm not totally against paying taxes, if it's not on the insane level as Germany.
I just struggle a bit with the 180 day requirement to stay in the country(ies).

I looked around and saw that Georgia doesn't require the 180 days, but for their HNW option my income is too low at the moment.
UAE looks nice as well, but again I think a bit too expensive for me.

I could see myself in both Asia and Latam at the moment.
How do you guys do this on a budget?

 

[Allisgood]

Regarding non-EU passport as a German citizen - make sure it’s by descent and not naturalisation. Otherwise you could instantly lose your German citizenship if you become a non-EU citizen (if Germany finds out). If it’s by descent you are technically already a dual citizen so you cannot lose your German citizenship that way. Just good to keep that in mind to avoid any surprises.

 

[Piano]

Hi,

German citizen here. Currently in Indonesia with no intention to return to Germany in the coming months.
I currently study and am not dependent on local income.

I’m so far still a German tax resident, but don’t really see much sense in continuing to be, as taxes are high and I’m paying taxes on my stock market investments.
Crypto I don't really have to pay as I can either fly under the radar or just hold for 1 year.

Therefore want to move my tax residency soon. To not pay taxes with my German brokers, I would need a Certificate of Residency from the new country I’m residing in.
Planning on switching to non-German brokers, but that would still require me to pay taxes.

Country wise, Indonesia won’t work as far as I know, as I’m here on a short term business visa.
I think keeping EU residency would be beneficial for me at this point and Ireland and Malta look good.
Just right now it doesn’t really make sense for me to fly to there and do rent a place and do things onsite due to Covid etc. Also I don’t really wanna spend much time in the EU at the moment.

Are there some good options for me to get an official residency in my situation?

I can get a South American passport fairly easy and would like to visit soon.
The country in question used to not have taxes on foreign sourced income, but has it now, to a lower degree.
I'm not totally against paying taxes, if it's not on the insane level as Germany.
I just struggle a bit with the 180 day requirement to stay in the country(ies).

I looked around and saw that Georgia doesn't require the 180 days, but for their HNW option my income is too low at the moment.
UAE looks nice as well, but again I think a bit too expensive for me.

I could see myself in both Asia and Latam at the moment.
How do you guys do this on a budget?

How many days does Georgia require ?

 

[gansu]

How many days does Georgia require ?

0 if you go the high networth individual route and earn over 64k USD in the last 3 years, or invest a large amount in Georgia.

Hi Gansu
Indonesia is a grey area, as long as you have relation with your bank officer, and have a flexible tax consultant, you can get so much way to meet your purpose.
thankyou

What do you mean exactly? You mean restructuring of assets to Indonesia for tax optimization?
Not sure I trust this.
Will try to open an account for some things just because it makes my life easier.

I think I don't need a tax certificate after all, moving assets offshore is enough, the only missing thing is a TIN in another country to deal with CRS and cut ties with my high tax home country.
Getting a TIN in Indonesia would probably be pretty shady and would put me in a situation of having to pay tax here, which is not good.
UAE doesn't look that bad after all, just not that cheap and to be there every 6 months is not that nice as I don't travel that route or anything that much at the moment, but seems modern and reputable.
The Channel Island banks and others seem to not accept South American residency which I thought would be a good free alternative as dual citizen for me, same as Panama. Both would be free/cheap to get and easy to keep with low/no risk of loosing them.

Should've just found a way back then to get a Malta ID card and then just use the number from there and hope they don't check if I have stayed long enough on their island.

 

[gansu]

I think just a TIN/some sort of residency proof that satisfies my banks. Don't need a legal entity or new bank account right now.

 

[gansu]

Existing banks in home country usually ask for that and a proof of home country that I have no residency anymore.
Some ask for some kind of proof of address, or registration/tax residency certificate, but those are mostly brokers and I can just transfer the shares to better brokers with less headaches.

Revolut seems to ask for a TIN now and I have to keep EU residency on file with them.

I guess the key is to get multiple TINs/residencies.
Anywhere that works, for stable home country bank and future Channel Islands and other proper offshore banks.

EU one for Revolut and other providers that don't accept non EU residency.

 

[gansu]

if you are in indonesia or bali,i prefer to have f2f discussion with you related information you needed

Might need to write more posts until I can PM.

 

[nasariohernandez]

Hey @gansu ! I'm in a similar situation to yours and choosing the tax strategy for the future. Ended up settling in the UAE for this year to wait out Covid in a safe place and have time to properly plan future taxes.

I've been looking into Georgia and it's HNWI residency. Had a few zoom calls with local lawyers. My first impression is that the country is rather chaotic and each lawyer has given me a slightly different answer, which is concerning when it comes to taxation matters!

Panama has been on my list and I was hoping to get a Permanent Resident status there this year, but they have recently changed the rules - no more easy option to come, incorporate and get the residency card.

I'm still on the lookout for a "sure deal" for future tax residency and would happily share my findings here!

Also, regarding Georgia found this forum thread being extremely informative - CFC rules in Georgia.

Cheers!

 

[backpacker]

Hey @gansu ! I'm in a similar situation to yours and choosing the tax strategy for the future. Ended up settling in the UAE for this year to wait out Covid in a safe place and have time to properly plan future taxes.

I've been looking into Georgia and it's HNWI residency. Had a few zoom calls with local lawyers. My first impression is that the country is rather chaotic and each lawyer has given me a slightly different answer, which is concerning when it comes to taxation matters!

Panama has been on my list and I was hoping to get a Permanent Resident status there this year, but they have recently changed the rules - no more easy option to come, incorporate and get the residency card.

I'm still on the lookout for a "sure deal" for future tax residency and would happily share my findings here!

Also, regarding Georgia found this forum thread being extremely informative - CFC rules in Georgia.

Cheers!

If you want a "sure deal" then Georgia is not the best option. The legal system is immature at best.
Regarding this rather obscure program read posts #117 and #118 in thread 0% tax residency .
Furthermore, if you really want legal advise do yourself a favour and go with one of the "big" local law firms (the list in Legal500 provides a useful selection).

 

[nasariohernandez]

Thanks for the answer @Bagpacker! I've been in touch with a few "zoom lawyers" and as you said, it all feels a bit "oh you know this might work this way". It's mind boggling to hear lawyers! interpret law and tax regulation in such a dubious way. I plan to visit Georgia in person this year to have a closer look and meet some real lawyer in person though.

What comes to mind that is the closest to Georgia in terms of low or no-tax residency? I'm in the UAE right now but I don't feel like maintaining a legal residency is something I'd like to do here - spending 183 days a year in air-coned malls is not something I would look forward to. Was thinking of Panama before they changed all the rules around friendly nations visa, it still might be a good option but given their reputation, I'd worry having legal problems in the long run. Thailand/Malaysia are OK but not my vibe to live over half a year in.

 

[backpacker]

Thanks for the answer @Bagpacker! I've been in touch with a few "zoom lawyers" and as you said, it all feels a bit "oh you know this might work this way". It's mind boggling to hear lawyers! interpret law and tax regulation in such a dubious way. I plan to visit Georgia in person this year to have a closer look and meet some real lawyer in person though.

What comes to mind that is the closest to Georgia in terms of low or no-tax residency? I'm in the UAE right now but I don't feel like maintaining a legal residency is something I'd like to do here - spending 183 days a year in air-coned malls is not something I would look forward to. Was thinking of Panama before they changed all the rules around friendly nations visa, it still might be a good option but given their reputation, I'd worry having legal problems in the long run. Thailand/Malaysia are OK but not my vibe to live over half a year in.

Excellent idea to come here first. Plan 2-3 weeks for a thorough visit. Do yourself a favour and avoid hotels. Best is to rent an apartment in a "normal" (i.e. non-western) part of Tbilisi, for instance Isani (this is a district of Tbilisi which offers good access to public transportation, i.e. Metro). That way you get an idea about real life in Georgia.
If you live from sporadic capital gains (see post #18 in thread Where to begin to protect stock portfolio? ), dividends and bank interest then Georgia is still o.k. . However, a plebiscite might be launched next year regarding the taxation system because the government wants to bring it closer to "EU-standards". Therefore it is highly doubtful if the current tax regime will still be in place in 2024.
You can read post #61 of thread CFC rules in Georgia (and the other posts of that thread) which goes a bit more into details.

You do not like to live in Thailand and Malaysia. Well, the latter has suspended its MM2H once again which means it is anyway no convenient alternative.
There is still the Philippines. After having suspended their SRRV program for almost a year it has recently reopened with some amendments regarding the age structure: Youngsters are no longer welcome, members have to be at least 50 years of age to apply.

Other than that, if it is only about CGT and investment income look into Bulgaria. Capital gains of securities traded on a regulated EU/EEA exchange market are exempt from taxation. Tax on dividends is 5%. Tax on interest paid by a bank is 8%. Consider cheap rent and low daily living expenses, then BG is not the worst deal.

 

[stevy777]

You do not like to live in Thailand and Malaysia. Well, the latter has suspended its MM2H once again which means it is anyway no convenient alternative.
There is still the Philippines. After having suspended their SRRV program for almost a year it has recently reopened with some amendments regarding the age structure: Youngsters are no longer welcome, members have to be at least 50 years of age to apply.

I know they suspended it because of all the Chinese last year .... but are you sure they have scrapped it for younger people? On the website it says we can spend $50k on a condo to get a permanent residency ... it's possible they didn't update their website - i'm just hoping it's still possible

source: SRRV – Philippine Retirement Authority

 

[stevy777]

Hi,

German citizen here. Currently in Indonesia with no intention to return to Germany in the coming months.
I currently study and am not dependent on local income.

I’m so far still a German tax resident, but don’t really see much sense in continuing to be, as taxes are high and I’m paying taxes on my stock market investments.
Crypto I don't really have to pay as I can either fly under the radar or just hold for 1 year.

Therefore want to move my tax residency soon. To not pay taxes with my German brokers, I would need a Certificate of Residency from the new country I’m residing in.
Planning on switching to non-German brokers, but that would still require me to pay taxes.

Country wise, Indonesia won’t work as far as I know, as I’m here on a short term business visa.
I think keeping EU residency would be beneficial for me at this point and Ireland and Malta look good.
Just right now it doesn’t really make sense for me to fly to there and do rent a place and do things onsite due to Covid etc. Also I don’t really wanna spend much time in the EU at the moment.

Are there some good options for me to get an official residency in my situation?

I can get a South American passport fairly easy and would like to visit soon.
The country in question used to not have taxes on foreign sourced income, but has it now, to a lower degree.
I'm not totally against paying taxes, if it's not on the insane level as Germany.
I just struggle a bit with the 180 day requirement to stay in the country(ies).

I looked around and saw that Georgia doesn't require the 180 days, but for their HNW option my income is too low at the moment.
UAE looks nice as well, but again I think a bit too expensive for me.

I could see myself in both Asia and Latam at the moment.
How do you guys do this on a budget?

You could try Cambodia - i was there last year for most of the year and it's very cheap. I liked it there .. maybe best to stay out of the capital and go to Siem Reap. You need to enter on a BUSINESS VISA .. e.g. i'm interested in real estate

at airpot they give you one month business visa and then you get it extended for a year by going to a travel agency. They told me before i leave i could keep extending it

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

Most banks don't require a TIN or tax residency certificate, a utility bill is typically enough. Some countries (like the UAE) don't even have TINs.
If all you care about is a TIN, some countries hand them out very easily. You just tell them you wan to do business in the country and open a bank account, and that's it. Brazil for example.
But obviously if you give your bank a Brazilian CPF and utility bill, they will report to the Brazilian tax authorities under the CRS. And then the Brazilian tax authorities might ask you to pay up.

Someone here also mentioned that they had received received residency in Paraguay for $2000 or so. Not tax residency, but residency. Which may be good enough for your purposes.
There's also Panama's Friendly Nations Visa, which they are closing very soon. So if you're interested in it, now's your last chance.

 

[backpacker]

I know they suspended it because of all the Chinese last year .... but are you sure they have scrapped it for younger people? On the website it says we can spend $50k on a condo to get a permanent residency ... it's possible they didn't update their website - i'm just hoping it's still possible

View attachment 2739

source: SRRV – Philippine Retirement Authority

You are right, the reason for suspension was because many Chinese misused the SRRV to take up a job with Philippine Offshore Gaming Operators (POGOs, licensed via PAGCOR). And yes, officially there is still the 50k option of the SRRV Classic version. They simply abolished the former SRRV SMILE version.
However, in practice Philippine BI (Bureau of Immigration) will not grant a base visa (SRRV is just a wrapper; in reality every SRRV is based on Executive Order 1037 + Memo Order 118) for a 35-year-old who brings along 50k. So, consider the 35 to 49 years a flexible bracket depending on your citizenship. Things might be easier for certain selected passport holders but they really do not want the youngsters anymore on that type of visa.

Do not forget: There are plenty of other options who are more suitable for younger people like the Special Investor's Resident Visa (SIRV). Hence it makes sense to stop SRRV for youngsters.

 

[stevy777]

So, consider the 35 to 49 years a flexible bracket depending on your citizenship. Things might be easier for certain selected passport holders but they really do not want the youngsters anymore on that type of visa.

That's a great assessment.

Do not forget: There are plenty of other options who are more suitable for younger people like the Special Investor's Resident Visa (SIRV). Hence it makes sense to stop SRRV for youngsters.

I did not think about the SIRV - good call

 

[fortunespeculator]

You could try Cambodia - i was there last year for most of the year and it's very cheap. I liked it there .. maybe best to stay out of the capital and go to Siem Reap. You need to enter on a BUSINESS VISA .. e.g. i'm interested in real estate

at airpot they give you one month business visa and then you get it extended for a year by going to a travel agency. They told me before i leave i could keep extending it

Can you give any contact who can get me the business visa - i think a local fixer or attorney is required for this.

 

[stevy777]

Can you give any contact who can get me the business visa - i think a local fixer or attorney is required for this.

if you enter the country on tourists you can't pivot to business. But on entering the country get business visa for one month, then there's many people who can get the extension (which is one year extension at a time). On google there's established people, i went with high score. I can't remember now where i went.