Thailand & Crypto - Help in locating the facts!?!

[andycam]

Hello all,

I've read thread, after thread (after thread) that suggests that (A) Thailand considers blockchain to be everywhere (B) Crypto stays with you in Thailand and (C) Thailand will tax crypto wherever you are..........but can anybody help me locate where in the law this is stated?

I tried seeking out some legal advice on this from a lawyer in Thailand, and he suggested that "in its 2022 Crypto asset Tax Guideline, the Revenue Department explains that to determine whether the income derived from the crypto asset has a source in Thailand (under Section 41 of the Revenue Code) or has a source outside Thailand, one has to consider which country the wallet used in a sale of the Crypto asset". We all know that (non crypto) securities held outside of the Kingdom are exempt from capital gains (if not brought in during the year they are derived) under the remittance rule, and this implies the same rule can be applied. He also implied that the location of the custody of the coins/keys could also be a contributing factor.

Now, I'm more than happy to challenge said lawyer if somebody can help me out and point me in the direction of somewhere in the Revenue Code (or elsewhere) what contradicts this, but I'm getting super frustrated as there are so many posts implying you're completely shafted in Thailand, and no pointers to the law that states this.

Short of paying another lawyer, I'm not sure what I can do to obtain the facts, so any links to the law would be awesome!

Thanks all.

 

[troubled soul]

Under Thailand Business Development Department e-commerce license, exchanges can exchange crypto for only Local currency(i.e. thai baht)
I attach the official docs

 

[andycam]

Under Thailand Business Development Department e-commerce license, exchanges can exchange crypto for only Local currency(i.e. thai baht)
I attach the official docs

That's great, thanks...........but

• What if you hold crypto offshore and trade on a decentralized (or non Thailand) exchange crypto to crypto.
• What if income was generated on an online platform that was not in Thailand

And the point that I most interested in,

• What if you hold crypto in an offshore entity?

As far as my lawyer is concerned, this is acceptable, but I can point you to a thousand posts on here that says that it's not.......

Thanks again

 

[troubled soul]

What if you hold crypto offshore and trade on a decentralized (or non Thailand) exchange crypto to crypto.

Any Government regulation comes when you do crypto->fiat or fiat->crypto.
Government does not care about what are you playing in crypto world. for them you are kids who play Pokémon cards. They only come to picture when you do crypto->fiat or fiat->crypto.
And they do not bother for it.
It applies to every country in the world if its crypto friendly or not.

What if income was generated on an online platform that was not in Thailand

why do they care ?
Do you want to transfer crypto to Thai bank account (fiat)???

What if you hold crypto in an offshore entity?

I do not see any problem If It is legal. nothing shady.

P.S. I am not expert. Just keyboard warrior.

 

[andycam]

Government does not care about what are you playing in crypto world.

Try asking most governments around this world this? Most western tax laws around the world consider crypto to crypto a taxable event.

why do they care ?

If you put your crypto into an interest bearing product and earn interest in crypto, it's considered income in most countries, and I don't think this is up for debate anywhere?!?! The question is how does Thailand treat it under the foreign remittance rule.

I do not see any problem If It is legal. nothing shady

There's so many posts on this forum that says it's taxable in Thailand.

P.S. I am not expert. Just keyboard warrior.

Noted, and replies/thoughts appreciated. Let's see if the post draws attention of those with information I don't have.....

 

[backpacker]

In order to avoid double-posting I explained it over there -> Is investing/trading on a tourist visa open to interpretation? (post #18)
Pretty easy as you have to see it in context. Note: A tax code is always based on the legal structure of the law.

 

[KDX]

Try asking most governments around this world this? Most western tax laws around the world consider crypto to crypto a taxable event.

Same with securities. I think if you wanted to do something like this, you should setup an offshore structure. Hopefully some people more familiar with Thailand can chip in.

 

[andycam]

you should setup an offshore structure.

This is my plan/preference, but it you believe everything on this forum, then being a shareholder in a company that directly holds crypto is still not permitted.

 

[CaptK]

Basically Crypto is taxable regardless of where it is in Thailand.
The only way round it is to structure it in an offshore company ideally already a year old . Then remit it as this years money and you are set up already for next year.

Already proven structure that works

 

[Mercury]

@andycam
I suggest you to spend some time in Thailand to understand how things are ruled there. This is not the West, nor Japan/Singapore. Law is "flexible" and, unless you kill someone or get into things related to drugs, barely enforced or enforceable anyway. In case of highly unlikely trouble, corruption is sadly your friend and welcomed.

I repeat myself: as long as you keep your cryptos outside of the country (foreign brokers/CEX) and not remit in Thailand any crypto related income the same year it has been earned you can sleep tight, no need to be more paranoid.

 

[KDX]

Thailand seems like a cool place...

 

[andycam]

Basically Crypto is taxable regardless of where it is in Thailand.

Yet another post that says it's taxable in Thailand, but without any indication as to where it says it in the law. It's easy to say "they don't allow xxxx" on a forum, but it appears much less easy to point to where it ACTUALLY is in the law. My lawyer suggests otherwise, so I'm currently faced with believing a random post with no backup, or a Thai lawyer.

I suggest you to spend some time in Thailand to understand how things are ruled there

I have lived there before so I know how it works. This time I'm moving for a longer period, and it makes sense to dot every i and get my house in order so that I'm squeaky clean - which seems rather difficult!

as long as you keep your cryptos outside of the country (foreign brokers/CEX) and not remit in Thailand any crypto related income the same year it has been earned you can sleep tight, no need to be more paranoid.

This is what my lawyer is implying. It's just such a shame that there are so many people on this forum that are adamant that "crypto follows you" but can't back it up.

The only way round it is to structure it in an offshore company

There are also posts on this forum that suggest that being a shareholder in an entity that holds the underlying crypto is not allowed in Thailand. Again, I'm trying to see where this is in the law.

 

[zzzzzz]

@andycam
I suggest you to spend some time in Thailand to understand how things are ruled there. This is not the West, nor Japan/Singapore. Law is "flexible" and, unless you kill someone or get into things related to drugs, barely enforced or enforceable anyway. In case of highly unlikely trouble, corruption is sadly your friend and welcomed.

I repeat myself: as long as you keep your cryptos outside of the country (foreign brokers/CEX) and not remit in Thailand any crypto related income the same year it has been earned you can sleep tight, no need to be more paranoid.

I'm more concerned with longevity of such setup. Thailand starts with CRS in 2023 for tax year 2022, and OECD reporting regulation is in process of expanding to crypto exchanges. With CRS even the most incompetent taxman in 3rd world country gets automatically all the data it needs from abroad.

 

[Mercury]

This is what my lawyer is implying. It's just such a shame that there are so many people on this forum that are adamant that "crypto follows you" but can't back it up.

Most of people are just good readers. They have no clue how things are indeed managed in a particular country because they don't actually live or didn't live enough time there to figure it out.

Follow what your lawyer says, or survey several thai people you trust about your situation asking how they would handle their crypto investments in your place. Follow their advice, they know better than anybody else.

I'm more concerned with longevity of such setup. Thailand starts with CRS in 2023 for tax year 2022, and OECD reporting regulation is in process of expanding to crypto exchanges. With CRS even the most incompetent taxman in 3rd world country gets automatically all the data it needs from abroad.

Longevity... well, in the world we are living right now it's, in my opinion, irrelevant to plan anything more than 6 months/1 year. In the meantime we might all die from a nuke, a nasty virus or a long ever lasting economic crisis and if by chance we are still alive I suspect CRS/FATCA/Taxman will be the last of our concern.

Joke aside, foreseeing how and what Thailand will do or not in one year time is irrelevant too. Implementing tax restrictions to money getting in the country is totally unproductive.

 

[andycam]

Thailand starts with CRS in 2023 for tax year 2022, and OECD reporting regulation is in process of expanding to crypto exchanges.

It depends on what side of the fence you are sitting. Sure, if you're in the camp that "crypto follows you" then CRS could become a problem, but as my lawyer reminds me, the foreign remittance rule will (currently) continue to be in place, so if you sit on the other side of the fence, then the RD will be less concerned about CRS reporting at the time of event if the remittance rule is still in play.

 

[CaptK]

Your structure doesn’t state crypto as an assets class, it’s just dividends.

 

[zzzzzz]

What type of Thailand visa are you planning to get / do you have? Elite visa?

 

[calnana]

The problem with tax discussions is that very often the actual laws are not black/white but include broad definitions up for interpretation, especially when it comes to crypto.

In these situations having information of how the authorities have treated people in the past, and how they are interpreting these rules in real life, is very useful in determining what approach you should take.

Having professional advice that differs from what is being experience by others is fine, just be ok with fighting with the tax authorities if s**t hits the fan, especially if you've taken a riskier strategy.

I'm not referring to this thread in particular and appreciate the OP is doing his DD - well done on that, but on similar posts we see a lot of smart asses who think they can mess around with the taxman. If you're from a Mickey mouse country and are unlikely to be targeted fair enough, roll the dice, but otherwise I would think it wise to err on the side of caution. Pay your dues and move to a favourable jurisdiction/setup that is tried and tested.

PS: no offence to Mickey mouse countries, I'm from one

 

[andycam]

What type of Thailand visa are you planning to get / do you have? Elite visa?

Yes, Elite.

otherwise I would think it wise to err on the side of caution.

I think this is (unfortunately) some very solid advice

 

[wellington]

Yes, Elite.


I think this is (unfortunately) some very solid advice

Andy, where are you based in Thailand.