UAE alternatives for trader/investor.

[El Raton]

Hi guys,

Any input on my situation is much appreciated!


I'm currently employed in Dubai, but my employment is ending shortly.
EU citizen, but have not lived there for 15+ years and have no obligations there nor ties to any EU country.
Spending less time in Dubai lately and currently my bank "residence address" is at a friends house.
I have 3 bank accounts (1 retail banking and 2 online brokers), that are all tied to my UAE residence.

At the moment my plan would be to live off of my trading and savings, but I would consider to start working again if a suitable opportunity came up.

I'm very happy with my bank situation, so keeping my UAE residence and current setup would be my preferred option. However, if there is any solid alternative arrangement, I'd definitely consider it.


Some options I have considered.

UAE "Investor visa" through real estate.
+ Legit visa and proof of address
- Major hassle to have a property where I don't intend to live
- Downside risk in property prices
- If I'd start working again, I have to cancel the investor visa (and not sure if I could revive it later again?)

UAE Freezone company with visa
+ Easy and cheap setup
- Potential issue with current banks

UAE Freelance visa
+ Even easier/cheaper
- I don't have any actual activity that technically qualifies for freelancing
- Potential bank issues


Other options I have considered; Andorra, Malta, Swedish ISK.

 

[Gediminas]

UAE Freezone company with visa
+ Easy and cheap setup
- Potential issue with current banks

I would go with this option.

As regards banks, what potential issues do you see?

 

[CaptK]

Investor Visa with mainland company gives you all you require.
Banking stays the same and if you get a job your not dependent on your sponsor.

 

[El Raton]

I would go with this option.

As regards banks, what potential issues do you see?

My concern was that the KYC renewal could be an issue if my "employer" has changed to "XYZ Trading" in some Freezone.

Earlier this year one of my banks asked me for additional Employer and Occupation details. But that might have been because it was my first year with that broker and I was moving a bit more money to fund that account.


Is it correct that ESR only applies to certain sectors and having little, or no revenue would generally not be a problem in a FZ company?

 

[El Raton]

Investor Visa with mainland company gives you all you require.
Banking stays the same and if you get a job your not dependent on your sponsor.

Interesting. What would be the advantage of having a mainland company over a FZ one?

 

[CaptK]

You can do business in the GCC also.
Banking is easy and less questions.

 

[Davis123]

Hi guys,

Any input on my situation is much appreciated!


I'm currently employed in Dubai, but my employment is ending shortly.
EU citizen, but have not lived there for 15+ years and have no obligations there nor ties to any EU country.
Spending less time in Dubai lately and currently my bank "residence address" is at a friends house.
I have 3 bank accounts (1 retail banking and 2 online brokers), that are all tied to my UAE residence.

At the moment my plan would be to live off of my trading and savings, but I would consider to start working again if a suitable opportunity came up.

I'm very happy with my bank situation, so keeping my UAE residence and current setup would be my preferred option. However, if there is any solid alternative arrangement, I'd definitely consider it.


Some options I have considered.

UAE "Investor visa" through real estate.
+ Legit visa and proof of address
- Major hassle to have a property where I don't intend to live
- Downside risk in property prices
- If I'd start working again, I have to cancel the investor visa (and not sure if I could revive it later again?)

UAE Freezone company with visa
+ Easy and cheap setup
- Potential issue with current banks

UAE Freelance visa
+ Even easier/cheaper
- I don't have any actual activity that technically qualifies for freelancing
- Potential bank issues


Other options I have considered; Andorra, Malta, Swedish ISK.

There is a new option of Freelance introduced by abudhabi recently and since it's the capital of UAE that could be a big leverage for bank accounts. Google it and I read it's the most cost effective out of all.

 

[Davis123]

Hi guys,

Any input on my situation is much appreciated!


I'm currently employed in Dubai, but my employment is ending shortly.
EU citizen, but have not lived there for 15+ years and have no obligations there nor ties to any EU country.
Spending less time in Dubai lately and currently my bank "residence address" is at a friends house.
I have 3 bank accounts (1 retail banking and 2 online brokers), that are all tied to my UAE residence.

At the moment my plan would be to live off of my trading and savings, but I would consider to start working again if a suitable opportunity came up.

I'm very happy with my bank situation, so keeping my UAE residence and current setup would be my preferred option. However, if there is any solid alternative arrangement, I'd definitely consider it.


Some options I have considered.

UAE "Investor visa" through real estate.
+ Legit visa and proof of address
- Major hassle to have a property where I don't intend to live
- Downside risk in property prices
- If I'd start working again, I have to cancel the investor visa (and not sure if I could revive it later again?)

UAE Freezone company with visa
+ Easy and cheap setup
- Potential issue with current banks

UAE Freelance visa
+ Even easier/cheaper
- I don't have any actual activity that technically qualifies for freelancing
- Potential bank issues


Other options I have considered; Andorra, Malta, Swedish ISK.

Property prices are in the sink now. Don't think it could fall anymore but with Covid still in the horizon no one can give you surety. Right now there is a lot of purchasing going on by big buyers on multi units as they are buying bulk in cheap (for those people who are reducing their risk from cryptos). Some sellers are desperate for cash and they will sell for any good offers. If you have the time to wait out best is to buy hard assets like properties in most countries of the world. Gold might fly too but you need a good storage unit for it.

 

[Davis123]

On a side note, Marina and JLT are half of what they were a few years ago.

 

[Gediminas]

On a side note, Marina and JLT are half of what they were a few years ago.

And that's only a good thing!

 

[Davis123]

And that's only a good thing!

Well for those with purchasing power and diversifying their portfolios it's a good thing. Govts are now scrambling to save their fiat currencies. Who knows what power would they yield over cryptos in near future ? We never thought in 2007 also that they would get FATCA/CRS enforced but as soon as FATCA was passed, CRS started to trickle down. Swiss banking privacy was destroyed completely within a few years. Now tax havens are being dismantled one by one by Economic substance rules, etc. I am sure cryptos is on their horizons in near future as soon as Covid vaccine matter gets over with. They will want their own digital currency or control cryptos.

 

[El Raton]

You can do business in the GCC also.
Banking is easy and less questions.

The domestic market should be enough for my zero-revenue business.

Has the 100% foreign ownership been implemented for mainland companies now? (I saw it was supposed to come into effect this month)

I imagine less questions from the bank, but possibly a bit more complicated to set up and more questions about my company not having any revenue, right?

 

[El Raton]

There is a new option of Freelance introduced by abudhabi recently and since it's the capital of UAE that could be a big leverage for bank accounts. Google it and I read it's the most cost effective out of all.

I had a quick look and it might be an option.

I don't have any experience in any of the 48 activities that are specified, but I guess I could take up "Pest control" or "Flower arrangements".

How much do they actually check your background to match these activities for freelance visas?

 

[El Raton]

Property prices are in the sink now. Don't think it could fall anymore but with Covid still in the horizon no one can give you surety. Right now there is a lot of purchasing going on by big buyers on multi units as they are buying bulk in cheap (for those people who are reducing their risk from cryptos). Some sellers are desperate for cash and they will sell for any good offers. If you have the time to wait out best is to buy hard assets like properties in most countries of the world. Gold might fly too but you need a good storage unit for it.

I'm always a bit skeptical about the data, but from what I can see the m2 prices in the Marina have held up slightly better than some other areas and are down about 25-30% from the top in 2017.

Property Price Index - Dubai Real Estate

This page provides the most informed, detailed breakdown of the median price comparisons per sq. ft., depending on the area, property type and month.

propertytrends.ae

The Marina/JBR would be my preferred area if I'd buy, but I'm still not so sure about the prices having bottomed out yet.

 

[JackAlabama]

Well for those with purchasing power and diversifying their portfolios it's a good thing. Govts are now scrambling to save their fiat currencies. Who knows what power would they yield over cryptos in near future ? We never thought in 2007 also that they would get FATCA/CRS enforced but as soon as FATCA was passed, CRS started to trickle down. Swiss banking privacy was destroyed completely within a few years. Now tax havens are being dismantled one by one by Economic substance rules, etc. I am sure cryptos is on their horizons in near future as soon as Covid vaccine matter gets over with. They will want their own digital currency or control cryptos.

Sounds gloomy but I to some extent I tend to agree.

However, there is some hope.
However, the world is not nearly the same as it was in 2007 with the us on the brink of civil war and more and more people being aware of this mess.
CRS even as of now is not even working as well as intended.
Tax havens, Swiss banking privacy etc. have one very weak link as they are very easy to blackmail by banning them from the swift network which just lets them sit dry.
Due to cryptos p2p nature, cracking down on that is probably similar to prohibiting alcohol or other drugs.

 

[Davis123]

Sounds gloomy but I to some extent I tend to agree.

However, there is some hope.
However, the world is not nearly the same as it was in 2007 with the us on the brink of civil war and more and more people being aware of this mess.
CRS even as of now is not even working as well as intended.
Tax havens, Swiss banking privacy etc. have one very weak link as they are very easy to blackmail by banning them from the swift network which just lets them sit dry.
Due to cryptos p2p nature, cracking down on that is probably similar to prohibiting alcohol or other drugs.

Trust me if US govt wants cryptos banned then they will do it overnight. Alcohol, drugs are different category and they are not financial instruments. Where will you trade your cryptos ? Underground in local coins hand to hand exchanges? Yes everything is workable as every country is afraid of their fiat currencies loosing their values. I remember in 2012-2013 UAE govt was facilitating cryptos by having bitcoin ATMs installed and you could trade locally too but suddenly in 2014 it made an announcement to ban them from being traded in UAE and had bitcoin ATMs removed. I supposed a threat to their fiat currencies was realized by the govt early on as they knew no one would keep money in their banks anymore. US govt is the big elephant in this world if it wants to do it they will do it overnight. I studied prohibition of alcohol etc in us history in schools and university and how cannibis control was unsuccessful. We all learnt in history that CIA was using drug money to supply Nicaraguan rebels as well as sold weapons to Iran in so called Iran Contra affair. FATCA is a very big success but not sure whether CRS has the right tooth as they don't have the might of US govt. Don't underestimate the US govt, always stay ahead of their game. That's the correct approach.

 

[Davis123]

Sounds gloomy but I to some extent I tend to agree.

However, there is some hope.
However, the world is not nearly the same as it was in 2007 with the us on the brink of civil war and more and more people being aware of this mess.
CRS even as of now is not even working as well as intended.
Tax havens, Swiss banking privacy etc. have one very weak link as they are very easy to blackmail by banning them from the swift network which just lets them sit dry.
Due to cryptos p2p nature, cracking down on that is probably similar to prohibiting alcohol or other drugs.

US is not the on the brink of civil war now that Joe Biden has been elected. It will simmer down soon. Some trouble makers of Trump will calm down too

 

[Davis123]

I'm always a bit skeptical about the data, but from what I can see the m2 prices in the Marina have held up slightly better than some other areas and are down about 25-30% from the top in 2017.

Property Price Index - Dubai Real Estate

This page provides the most informed, detailed breakdown of the median price comparisons per sq. ft., depending on the area, property type and month.

propertytrends.ae

The Marina/JBR would be my preferred area if I'd buy, but I'm still not so sure about the prices having bottomed out yet.

Top was 2014 I was here back then and from my personal experience living over here for more than a decade highest I have ever seen the property prices in Dubai was in 2014. There were lots of people selling it out at that time as they wanted to cash out before it goes low again and it did. By 2017, JLT apts we were selling were 750,000 AED down from 1 million AED in 2014. Now the same are around 550,000 and lower. Marina is the same way but it depends on the building (construction )and views too.

 

[rowena]

An average -50% decrease in property prices would be not correct. You can check the report below to understand the real situation.

https://cdn.reidin.com/endeks/kasim/united-arab-emirates-residential-property-price-report-2020-11.pdf

 

[Davis123]

An average -50% decrease in property prices would be not correct. You can check the report below to understand the real situation.

https://cdn.reidin.com/endeks/kasim/united-arab-emirates-residential-property-price-report-2020-11.pdf

View attachment 2009

Actually I am in real estate business myself in Dubai so I am stating facts as to what we are seeing. I don't need to see any reports. Ask any professional real estate company (don't ask one who wants to sell you a property ).