We made a Bingo website for real money. Now what?

[PMP]

Hi,


I represent a small group of developers and web-designers with very limited financial resources from Portugal (typical).


Our project in development is a online Bingo website for real money with high definition graphics, exclusive offers and many news and innovations never seen before in this type of gaming.


We are now in the final stages of development and we we are beginning to think that we must use an offshore subsidiary to hold the assets of the business.


We also need to have access to methods of payment like VISA, MasterCard, EntroPay,NETELLER, PayPal, Skrill (Moneybookers), Ukash and Paysafecard.


We just have the website and we want to put it online without having legal problems or closed accounts.


Our idea would be to start use types of payment and deposit with a personal account on Paypal, Neteller and maybe Skrill and host the site in Costa Rica with out any application data (if this is possible)


The money deposited by the players would only be used only for payments to players.


After seeing that we have business, then we acquired one license in another and most reputable offshore, hire an attorney to register a company and open a bank account for transactions and to acess methods of payment like VISA and MasterCard.


Due to lack of financial resources, i think we have no alternative than this.


What would you do in our situation? What other solutions can we have?


Thank you.thumbups

 

[Zqq]

We are now in the final stages of development and we we are beginning to think that we must use an offshore subsidiary to hold the assets of the business.
We also need to have access to methods of payment like VISA, MasterCard, EntroPay,NETELLER, PayPal, Skrill (Moneybookers), Ukash and Paysafecard.

Forget PayPal. They only allow new gambling merchants in territories with licenses, meaning you need one license per country you want to offer PayPal in. In Europe, this basically comes down to UK, Malta, Belgium, Denmark, Spain, Italy, France, and Estonia. PayPal is not popular enough in Europe to justify this as a new and small gambling operator.


Forget Entropay. They are expensive and generally unpleasant to work with.


You get Visa and MasterCard (plus Maestro) via a merchant account, provided by an acquiring bank, and a gateway, supplied by a payment service provider (PSP). Usually, the PSP can introduce you to an acquirer at favourable rates.


If you are going to focus on Portugal, stick to payment methods that are big in Portugal.

Our idea would be to start use types of payment and deposit with a personal account on Paypal, Neteller and maybe Skrill and host the site in Costa Rica with out any application data (if this is possible)
The money deposited by the players would only be used only for payments to players.


After seeing that we have business, then we acquired one license in another and most reputable offshore, hire an attorney to register a company and open a bank account for transactions and to acess methods of payment like VISA and MasterCard.

Forget this if you are serious about your business. First of all, you won't be able to target any of the major marketing channels in Europe unless you have a license in Europe. Secondly, very few payment providers will want to touch you if you are based in Costa Rica, and the ones that do will charge you through your nose.

Due to lack of financial resources, i think we have no alternative than this.
What would you do in our situation? What other solutions can we have?

I have been involved in the operation and start-up of several online gambling companies. Costa Rica is only useful for targeting specific countries, but it's difficult to find payment processors that won't rip you off.


My preferred jurisdiction is Malta. The licensing process can be a bit slow and requires significant capital, but if you can find a bank willing to give you a loan or an investor willing to provide the capital, it's well worth it. Aside from Malta, you have Gibraltar, UK, and Isle of Man in Europe; all of which are good jurisdictions. I think the UK might have something special for bingo sites that you may find interesting. Check with the UK Gambling Commission.


If you absolutely cannot afford even the most basic license in Europe, take a look at Curaçao. It is a fairly reputable jurisdiction. I know many payment processors that don't deal with Costa Rica but do deal with Curaçao. The license costs in Curaçao are only about $10,000 per year and you pay a very favourable tax rate.

 

[PMP]

I already have the answer from Curacao Gambling Commission:

Dear Pedro Thank you for your interest in our jurisdiction. We would certainly be the right group to assist, we can certainly fit you with the right package to grow from. I suggest to review the information provided I this message and we arrange a call to discuss your requirements and options in detail Please find attached our Curacao eGaming Guidance Notes for more information on Curacao eGaming Licensing and compliance services. This document contains all necessary guidance to define Licensing Services and the necessary operating compliance requirements to establish an online gambling services under Curacao eGaming licensing. The entire setup process can be completed within a few day, depending on potential licensees turnaround time to provide the necessary documents and information to complete the application process and setup of compliance services before we may issue licensing.

GLOBAL COMPLIANCE SERVICES Our Global IP compliance services and data centers are strategically located around the world. We provide licensees with turnkey compliance-ready solutions tailored specifically to meet our eGaming compliance requirements. Our easy to implement global compliance services may be combined and/or layered over any existing services no matter where those services may already be operating. Services to operate in cooperation with our global compliance services may include specific traffic, data, services, application logic or contributing remote services as outlined in the licensing services guide. Licensees focused on global delivery of their services often encounter multi-jurisdictional compliance issues, geographic regulatory challenges or simply need to better manage their own or their clients geographic application traffic, data and services. Because of the unique and proprietary flexibility of our world-wide IP compliance services we are able to adapt our services to support our licensees to meet various additional business, legal, geographic and multijurisdictional challenges. Please inquire for more information on these services.

ALL-INCLUSIVE PACKAGES The monthly ongoing operating fees for eGaming licensing and compliance services are determined mainly by your eGaming licensing and compliance services requirements which we will require a response to those items under point (.7) of the Licensing Services Guide to begin to determine those requirements. All-inclusive packages inclusive of eGaming licensing and compliance services start at $1595/mo.

NO RESTRICTIONS Curacao has no restrictions on who its licensees intend to do business with. It is the responsibility of the licensee to be familiar with the local law’s and requirements for the territories for which they intend to offer their services.

APPLICATION You may complete and return the attached required application forms and supporting documents. You may return all documents in electronic format allowing our compliance officers to begin to process your application documents immediately while they wait to receive the originals via courier, we suggest Fed-Ex or DHL when sending any originals. Within only a few days of receipt of your application we can process your application for approval. A 1x upfront application fee of $1500USD is required for application processing, detailed wire instructions can be found in the application. Should you have any questions or simply prefer to initially discuss over a call, please do not hesitate to contact us to arrange a private consultation. Regards, Scott Curacao eGaming Licensing Services

Facts: $1560/mo is much money for a start-up projet and for us.


We'll have to find an investor.


Can you recommend any forum or website or person where we can present our project to investors in this area ?

 

[Zqq]

Facts: $1560/mo is much money for a start-up projet and for us.

If you don't have the money to get a license in Curaçao, I don't think you have what it takes to make this work.


I'm sorry if you think this sounds rude, but I have seen people crash and burn so many times in this industry; many of them with far more money and experience.


How do you intend to pay for things like hosting (unlicensed gambling can only be hosted in certain jurisdiction, where hosting costs are quite high), marketing, support, anti-fraud, and a Costa Rica company? What's your business plan like? How are you going to finance the relocation to Costa Rica, or do you plan to stay in Portugal and hope the authorities don't find you?

Can you recommend any forum or website or person where we can present our project to investors in this area ?

The problem is that you are developing your own game with nothing behind it. There are many whitelabel solutions out there, where someone supplies you with a technical platform (including games), customer service, anti-fraud, payments, and so on. This won't work for you since all you have is a game, and no money.


Sure, you can go for the Costa Rica route and maybe do so for just a few thousand per year but don't be surprised when your site doesn't go anywhere because you can't market it in Europe or when your profit margin is destroyed by high payment processing fees.


It sounds to me as if you are more likely to make money by licensing your game to other gaming operators than to try to be one yourself. If your game is as good and innovative as you say, I'm sure you would be able to find a buyer/licensee.

 

[PMP]

You get Visa and MasterCard (plus Maestro) via a merchant account, provided by an acquiring bank, and a gateway, supplied by a payment service provider (PSP). Usually, the PSP can introduce you to an acquirer at favorable rates.

Can you tell your preferring PSPs?

If you are going to focus on Portugal, stick to payment methods that are big in Portugal

Do you mean if our target is Portugal? No. Our target will be EU and Central America players. The site will be in English and $ will be the currency for the start.

Forget this if you are serious about your business. First of all, you won't be able to target any of the major marketing channels in Europe unless you have a license in Europe. Secondly, very few payment providers will want to touch you if you are based in Costa Rica, and the ones that do will charge you through your nose.

Agree, but if we can´t get any investor, i´m afraid that will be the only solution,unfortunately.


BTW, we have 25% of the business reserved to an investor.

I have been involved in the operation and start-up of several online gambling companies. Costa Rica is only useful for targeting specific countries, but it's difficult to find payment processors that won't rip you off.

What you think about this payment processors (excluding the fact that do not give credibility):


- Solidtrustpay


- Payza


- Alertpay


- EGOPay


- STP

I think the UK might have something special for bingo sites that you may find interesting. Check with the UK Gambling Commission.

UK Gambling Commission requires that gambling company as residence in UK (if a read right). For that I´m out.

 

[PMP]

It sounds to me as if you are more likely to make money by licensing your game to other gaming operators than to try to be one yourself. If your game is as good and innovative as you say, I'm sure you would be able to find a buyer/licensee.

If anything else fails, that will be the 2º solution.


First I will try to find a Investor for 10K and 25% of the business (or more if we go to a license in Malta).


We have support and marketing. Hosting is about $70/mo with configuration we need.


About moving physically to another country, that´s out of question. We must find a jurisdiction that do not force to be living in the country where the license is issued.


And sorry about my questions. I´m very newbie in this subject and my English don´t help

 

[Zqq]

Can you tell your preferring PSPs?

Unfortunately, I cannot as I would violate NDAs and other contractual obligations. However, what I can say is that I deal with some of the biggest PSPs around (as well as a few smaller ones).

What you think about this payment processors (excluding the fact that do not give credibility):
- Solidtrustpay


- Payza


- Alertpay


- EGOPay


- STP

SolidTrust Pay - Have looked at in the past, but discarded due to high costs and bad reputation. They quoted us rates about twice what I was currently paying at the time. They thought we were lying. Shows how experienced they are.


Payza/AlertPay - Total clowns. They keep losing their MIDs. Tried to save their reputation by re-branding themselves. Doesn't do gambling.


AlertPay - They are now Payza.


EGOPay - No experience. Looks like yet another e-wallet that no one uses. Doesn't do gambling. Belize company. I wouldn't touch them.


STP - Are you referring to SolidTrust Pay again, or someone else?

 

[PMP]

I really believe that we have a great great product and I must try to go online with it.


However I will now study the chance to sell website to operators. Gone try find a forum for that.


Thanks for the help.:thumbsUp:

 

[PMP]

It sounds to me as if you are more likely to make money by licensing your game to other gaming operators than to try to be one yourself. If your game is as good and innovative as you say, I'm sure you would be able to find a buyer/licensee.

License the game is even more expensive than getting a license in Curacao. It´s a casino game and it would have to go through a long and complex process of assessing security and data protection that lasts 6 months and costs no less than $ 50k. Furthermore our game is part of a website and therefore there is no need to download. Even if we had licensing conditions, we would have to turn the entire site into a software. To do that we would start all over again.


Assuming I can afford a gaming license in Curacao, I wonder if we are required to be physically present to obtain a gaming license and open a bank account or a lawyer in Curaçao could make this work for us?


Two more questions..


We must incorporate in Curaçao or open a branch office to open a bank account?


I'll have to run the site from Curacao or can I do it from Portugal?


Thanks.

 

[Zqq]

License the game is even more expensive than getting a license in Curacao. It´s a casino game and it would have to go through a long and complex process of assessing security and data protection that lasts 6 months and costs no less than $ 50k. Furthermore our game is part of a website and therefore there is no need to download. Even if we had licensing conditions, we would have to turn the entire site into a software. To do that we would start all over again.

The same process will apply if you offer your game as a gambling operator. Licensing authorities will audit your game, even in places like Curaçao.

Assuming I can afford a gaming license in Curacao, I wonder if we are required to be physically present to obtain a gaming license and open a bank account or a lawyer in Curaçao could make this work for us?
Two more questions..


We must incorporate in Curaçao or open a branch office to open a bank account?


I'll have to run the site from Curacao or can I do it from Portugal?

You must have operations in Curaçao, but you can have foreign ownership. In theory, everything can be set up remotely.

 

[PMP]

What you think about payment gateways, like Tain ? It´s a secure solution to access online payments like credit cards without open bank account ?

 

[Zqq]

I know a couple of gambling operators that started out on Tain and similar platforms. They are fine.

 

[PMP]

Unintentionally opened a site just about white label. You have some knowledge about this matter? Is another possible solution to license the game?

 

[Zqq]

Unintentionally opened a site just about white label. You have some knowledge about this matter? Is another possible solution to license the game?

I mentioned white labels earlier:


"The problem is that you are developing your own game with nothing behind it. There are many whitelabel solutions out there, where someone supplies you with a technical platform (including games), customer service, anti-fraud, payments, and so on. This won't work for you since all you have is a game, and no money."


I have a very hard time seeing a whitelabel provider integrate a new (and unaudited) game into their platform.