Card processor for Singapore business / Marketing services

[jrmarketing]

It won't last. You sell social media services. Someone buys a 1000 followers, 2 weeks later 80% of those are banned, so they chargeback. Couple of those, they check your site and you're banned.

You are not going to find someone who works at a processor who is going to allow you to pay them under the table and they allow you to keep their account. It doesn't work like that. Forget it.

End of the day, what you want to do is against ALL payment processors TOS so you need to be sneaky. The end.

Please read my Thread I have a chargeback rate of 0,5%...300 transactions/months and maybe 2-3 chargebacks.

 

[jrmarketing]

Have you tried to notify US customers to call their bank and ask them to force their transaction for PayOP? It is possible to reduce the number of failed transactions.

I spied it on one website that sells medicines from India. They use direct payment on their website. Money sent to Africa as a result

Yes I did this ! But I cannot always manually ask them to do it. Its frustrating and especially new customers wont do it because they consider is as suspciouos.

 

[jrmarketing]

Why my credit card was declined?
In most cases, unless it's a fraudulent issue, the problems will be resolved on the phone. Keep in mind that our online pharmacy doesn't decline your payment—your credit card company or bank does. Our payment processing gateways are located in Europe and China because the U.S. banks prohibit direct purchases for RX drugs. And they do not basically allow transactions from overseas.
Solutions for the most common declined payment reasons:

• The issuing bank doesn't allow the use of the card for Internet or international transactions. Talk to your bank to allow these types of transactions, then retry the credit card in 24 hours. Or, enter a new card that does allow Internet or international transactions.
• The billing address or the phone number that you have typed into the website does not match the billing details on file with your bank or credit card company.
• The account doesn't have sufficient funds or you've exceeded the card's credit limit or single transaction limit.

Important Note: Make sure NOT to mention our website, any drugs or tablets in case of communication with your bank. Instead, you can tell your bank that your transaction is related to consulting services.

• Call the support phone number that's shown on the back of your credit card.
• Tell the representative that you was trying to pay for consulting services online but that your payment was declined. Let them know the date and amount of the decline. Do NOT mention any drugs or our online pharmacy website.
• The representative will give you the exact reason for the decline and help you resolve the issue.

Once the issue has been fixed, try your payment again (in 24 hours).

Well yea I have standard message for failed payments. Something like


please call your bank and manually allow this payment to go through since PayOp is sometimes very strict with declining cards.
If you manage to pay, we will give you a good bonus on your order

Please try it again

 

[jrmarketing]

Again one thing that makes me furious.

When I google for competitors I see HUNDREDS of companies offering PayPal, Stripe, 2checkout etc etc...even WITHOUT masking. I use my time to analyse their checkouts and maybe find a processor this way. At least one that accepts most of the cards.
Our PayPal worked for years until January 2020. Now if I start with a business account it usually gets suspended after 7-14 days.
What I integrated recently is a manual paypal payment. People place an order and see a paypal.me link and they are instructed to uncheck the ''Payment fopr product/service'' button and not to add any notes.
At least this will work for lojng term clients. New clients might not rely on this.

For card processor I might consider the real masking method.

 

[James2774]

Again one thing that makes me furious.

When I google for competitors I see HUNDREDS of companies offering PayPal, Stripe, 2checkout etc etc...even WITHOUT masking. I use my time to analyse their checkouts and maybe find a processor this way. At least one that accepts most of the cards.
Our PayPal worked for years until January 2020. Now if I start with a business account it usually gets suspended after 7-14 days.
What I integrated recently is a manual paypal payment. People place an order and see a paypal.me link and they are instructed to uncheck the ''Payment fopr product/service'' button and not to add any notes.
At least this will work for lojng term clients. New clients might not rely on this.

For card processor I might consider the real masking method.

Many paypals are just being churned over time.
Ill read the thread but what are your monthly sales around currently? This can be done with stealth paypals as you are doing, though you need to cash them out, and I can chat about that if you tell me how you currently are cashing them out.
Also, you need a UK merchant account to accept US/EU/UK cards tier 1 countries without the fraud hold and subsequent phone call needed, and you need a UK account that wont care or overlook the SMM services, as they are prohibited by Visa/MC explicitly.
I would like to view your site if that is allowed to see what can make it look compliant?
Ideally, you are not selling followers/likes, but a service that will promote the page to receive x amount of likes/followers etc. So instead of 1,000 likes/$40, you list it as growing the account by 1,000 likes for $40.
At least on the surface it is not prohibited then.

I see 14k monthly, should be easy. Youll get a reserve for sure, any high risk will, and yes 7% is nice, its good to let the processor eat and see the account as valuable, that way they are happy to keep you around if no one is bothering anyone.

 

[James2774]

I live in Singapore and have a business here.
How to get a USA business? I dont want to pay 30% taxeso smth like that.

Set up a us LLC and get a merchant account at a bank

It doesnt work that way. Heres why, most US merchant accoutns need a US based signer, a resident or citizen, preferably a citizen with a SSN. I rarely if ever see a non citizen resident with an ITIN get an account. Especially for a startup which you would be classed as.
Further, US accounts limit processing volume to say 50k to start unless you keep a lot of cash in the bank. Its not worth it imo.

As to the taxes, if you arfe a non resident/citizen, you will not pay taxes. An LLC does not pay any tax, it is tax free, taxes are paid only when the LLC pays out salary/profits to the member, and the profit.salary is counted and taxed as income.
Since you are not a US resident, you are not subject to US income tax.
Hence, tax free.

The same will be done with a UK LLP. In an LLP, no corp tax, so if not a resident of the UK, youre good to go! The benefit of the UK account is unrestricted volume basically as well, and more lax rules for boarding. I have clients selling Kratom, SARMS, dating, cams, etc all on UK accounts, US sucks to be blunt.

 

[jrmarketing]

Hey yes, on our site we say we promote artist link/s until the result he paid for has reached.
But though, in the menu/navigation its listed as: Twitter - Twitter Followers - Twitter Retweets....or Spotify - Spotify Plays - Spotify Followers ....

Currently we get around 14k sales with Stripe (but its suspended already, in 2 days it will end) and I wont want to keep registering new accounts. Also, if possible I dont want to use any masking methods.

Do you think having a UK business would be the best? I have no one to sign for a US business.
How can I as a Singapore citizen with a sole trader business get a UK business, also I would get a UK bank account then right?

And yes 7% fees is only worth it if the processor is better than my current PayOp (russian) as more than a half I'd say 65% of US cards gets declined.)

 

[user9823671]

Ideally, you are not selling followers/likes, but a service that will promote the page to receive x amount of likes/followers etc. So instead of 1,000 likes/$40, you list it as growing the account by 1,000 likes for $40.
At least on the surface it is not prohibited then.

I can assure you that won't cut it. As soon as they see ANYTHING mentioning social media, it will be refused by stripe at least and several other major payment processors I know this as a fact. If you want to pass a visual expection you cannot mention growing accounts /boosting / etc anything like that

 

[user9823671]

Also, you need a UK merchant account to accept US/EU/UK cards tier 1 countries without the fraud hold and subsequent phone call needed, and you need a UK account that wont care or overlook the SMM services, as they are prohibited by Visa/MC explicitly.

and you know of these? What about the privacy aspect? As facebook / Instagram have been known to be aggressive in going after sellers of services. They have got court orders against US / NZ / Chinese companies doing this. US / NZ settled out of court but made international news. These were fairly big outfits but I know smaller companies have received cease and desist letters and threatening letters and felt the need to shut down and do as facebook demanded

 

[jrmarketing]

And what if I hide my SMM services until Stripe approved my account and then show the servicea again. Once approved, they wont check again? Please let me know

 

[James2774]

and you know of these? What about the privacy aspect? As facebook / Instagram have been known to be aggressive in going after sellers of services. They have got court orders against US / NZ / Chinese companies doing this. US / NZ settled out of court but made international news. These were fairly big outfits but I know smaller companies have received cease and desist letters and threatening letters and felt the need to shut down and do as facebook demanded

Privacy as far as?
Who cares about a cease and desist letter? Ok, so you stop services and restart in time under a new name, or you dont care bc youre in a country that doesnt care. Also, you certainly can sell account growth if its manual follow/unfollow, mother/child, stuff like that, that is different than fake followers. As far as risk goes, hes already selling it, many are, you need to decide if its worth it to you.
I see it as low risk if his sales are where they are.
Im sure there are plenty of resources on this forum as well to hide yourself well enough.
Take this for example even, low tech, and im just throwing this out there part question wise part why not I have not looked into it:
Say I have a friend in Morocco or Georgia. They open UK company and get merchant account, which I then use/pay rent for. Who is suing a guy with nothing in his bank account in these countries?
I have an IPTV guywho doesnt care at all bc as he said "I live in Morocco in the middle of no where who cares"
All of his money goes elsewhere after he receives it. Is Instagram going to get anything from a Moroccan villager with $100 in his bank?

I can assure you that won't cut it. As soon as they see ANYTHING mentioning social media, it will be refused by stripe at least and several other major payment processors I know this as a fact. If you want to pass a visual expection you cannot mention growing accounts /boosting / etc anything like that

By stripe yes, and by US accounts sure, but by others of course not, we see that he already has PayOp doing this, though not with great success, but clearly they dont care.

 

[jrmarketing]

Stri*** will review our account tomorrow. Official suspension date is tomorrow and employee will review site on Monday.

Do you think I should disable SMM services completely till I get an answers from Str***? And in case I am approved... I will add SMM back?
What do you think?

 

[James2774]

Stri*** will review our account tomorrow. Official suspension date is tomorrow and employee will review site on Monday.

Do you think I should disable SMM services completely till I get an answers from Str***? And in case I am approved... I will add SMM back?
What do you think?

Well to my knowledge they won’t approve SMM in any way.
Likely though you’ll lose the account in time. They just won’t allow SMM so why bother trying?

 

[jrmarketing]

Well to my knowledge they won’t approve SMM in any way.
Likely though you’ll lose the account in time. They just won’t allow SMM so why bother trying?

You didnt read my post

I mean, I KNOW SMM is not allowed but once approved I can add it back and then it will maybe run for many months.

 

[James2774]

You didnt read my post

I mean, I KNOW SMM is not allowed but once approved I can add it back and then it will maybe run for many months.

I did, im saying, why are you bothering with a processor that is known to not allow SMM and known to shut down accounts regularly due to TOS violations.
It might only run for a few days. Or maybe years who knows. But Stripe, PayPal, these processors audit sites often enough on their own for compliance, and one chargeback will trigger it, using Stripe for anything outside its TOS is just asking for shut down.
Or at least run a virtual terminal as a MOTO company and enter payments manually and dont have a website even registered. That way there is nothing to actually audit.

 

[jrmarketing]

I did, im saying, why are you bothering with a processor that is known to not allow SMM and known to shut down accounts regularly due to TOS violations.
It might only run for a few days. Or maybe years who knows. But Stripe, PayPal, these processors audit sites often enough on their own for compliance, and one chargeback will trigger it, using Stripe for anything outside its TOS is just asking for shut down.
Or at least run a virtual terminal as a MOTO company and enter payments manually and dont have a website even registered. That way there is nothing to actually audit.

I Know its against their TOS , through almost every seller of followers/views uses them, either they have very old accounts and stay under the radar, or they use masking methods.
Why should Stripe trigger it if there is a legit site in between? How would they know its about followers etc....on PayPal buyers can open a dispute, on Stripe they can only open a chargeback, not sure if they can add the reason: ''I didnt received my followers'' Lol

Virtual terminal for manual payments, how and where?

 

[James2774]

I Know its against their TOS , through almost every seller of followers/views uses them, either they have very old accounts and stay under the radar, or they use masking methods.
Why should Stripe trigger it if there is a legit site in between? How would they know its about followers etc....on PayPal buyers can open a dispute, on Stripe they can only open a chargeback, not sure if they can add the reason: ''I didnt received my followers'' Lol

Virtual terminal for manual payments, how and where?

Well PayPal is an intermediary, so when someone disputes paypal, it is a chargeback, its just that PayPal is able to right away do a reversal. They then hold that money, and wait for the decision of the chargeback from the banks involved.
Stripe is a chargeback all the same.
Yes you can add notes to your chargebackm didnt receive service, or something like "SMM".

As far as accounts going on for years, they may likely be using new accounts every so often, though yes an account can last a long time thats chance. Smaller volumes perhaps. Perhaps using several accounts to keep the volume on each account smaller.
Stripe itself can be used as a Virtual Terminal and so can PayPal and Square. All it means is you enter card details manually. Youll find it on the dashboard. With PayPal, i believe youll need a business account and to pay a monthly fee. Some people you see also do not integrate Stripe into the website, but instead, send out invoices via email from a different site/company, so there is no connection. It can still be lost due to chargebacks or someone reporting it, but at least its n ot tied to your main site, this is much better than doing a redirect I think.
To get your own virtual terminal otherwise you need to apply for one with any processor, they may ask for sales scripts, proof of what youre selling, etc. in addition to your standard bank statements, ID, voided check, corporate docs, etc:

For MOTO Merchants (50% or more transactions are MOTO)—Please provide the following

1 - Invoices

a. Sample of invoices sent to customers

2 - Scripts

a. All phone scripts used by sales

3 - Collateral Marketing

1. Brochures and any other marketing

 

[user9823671]

Privacy as far as?

UK companies have public register of name and address. If similar businesses have been threatened previously you may not want that to be public. I don't know what needs to be done for the merchant account used to give up your details as there is privacy in laws for UK, but I don't imagine it is difficult for international corporations with billions in turnover and lawyers on tap to go through that process (although maybe I am wrong here)

Who cares about a cease and desist letter? Ok, so you stop services and restart in time under a new name, or you dont care bc youre in a country that doesnt care.

Sure you can ignore a C&D. If they have just emailed it to you under the business name. Many people get a bit freaked out if is address to their actual name with their address listed threatening future court orders from facebook's lawyers if they don't stop trading, transfer customer lists and do everything they demand. Many businesses have closed down for less in the facebook / instagram space in the last few years.

Also, you certainly can sell account growth if its manual follow/unfollow, mother/child, stuff like that, that is different than fake followers. As far as risk goes, hes already selling it, many are, you need to decide if its worth it to you.
I see it as low risk if his sales are where they are.

Not with the main processors (stripe / paypal / 2cho). Anything that mentions social media they will just say "no". I've had some projects that are not anything todo with fake followers / likes but was related to social media sites and was refused. Sure you can get around it. But trying to legitamise your site by saying "growing social media accounts", I don't think will cut it.

Take this for example even, low tech, and im just throwing this out there part question wise part why not I have not looked into it:
Say I have a friend in Morocco or Georgia. They open UK company and get merchant account, which I then use/pay rent for. Who is suing a guy with nothing in his bank account in these countries?

I have an IPTV guywho doesnt care at all bc as he said "I live in Morocco in the middle of no where who cares"

All of his money goes elsewhere after he receives it. Is Instagram going to get anything from a Moroccan villager with $100 in his bank?

sure that is always a possibility, to just "not worry about it". If you live in the arse end of Morroco it probably is a decent enough strategy, but that is not everyone. Assuming they opened the UK company and merchant account with their actual details, they have address / passport / ID details. IF you have $100 in your bank they are not going to be interested if you are doing $1000 sales a month, but when start hitting $10k, $50k and getting bigger. After having ignored their C&D and they decide to go after you. Sure it might not happen to you, but it has to others. The time to think about this and mitigate it is now, not once you have grown and bringing in decent revenues and already getting attention from facebook lawyers.

By stripe yes, and by US accounts sure, but by others of course not, we see that he already has PayOp doing this, though not with great success, but clearly they dont care.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was only referring to the major US players, stripe / paypal et al. Of course there are outfits who don't care, but as OP said, they get terrible success rates and are not working well for OP

 

[clemens]

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was only referring to the major US players, stripe / paypal et al. Of course there are outfits who don't care, but as OP said, they get terrible success rates and are not working well for OP

What's the alternatives to get this work?

 

[James2774]

UK companies have public register of name and address. If similar businesses have been threatened previously you may not want that to be public. I don't know what needs to be done for the merchant account used to give up your details as there is privacy in laws for UK, but I don't imagine it is difficult for international corporations with billions in turnover and lawyers on tap to go through that process (although maybe I am wrong here)

Ok got it, tbh UK plays by DMCA most people do (even if not required by law), and so theyll follow most privacy/cease desist letter with any authority im sure.
I know there are DMCA ignored servers (top of my head i forget but they are searchable), but DMCA ignored merchant accounts of course not since they play by Visa/MC. Only people i know bypassing the merchant account (and therefore staying anonymous) are using stealth paypals. Issue being you may have to create a lot, as you may only want to run 1-2k month on each one to keep them under the radar.


[/QUOTE]Sure you can ignore a C&D. If they have just emailed it to you under the business name. Many people get a bit freaked out if is address to their actual name with their address listed threatening future court orders from facebook's lawyers if they don't stop trading, transfer customer lists and do everything they demand. Many businesses have closed down for less in the facebook / instagram space in the last few years.[/QUOTE]
True, i was more referring to as mentioned, 1) you live in a place that those laws dont apply or 2) you do cease and desist, and then start up again elsewhere under new alias/names etc
Of course, the ease of this is helped if ou are a smaller company. Restarting and transferring old customers at10k/month is easy, 100k/month youll lose business and be restarting.


[/QUOTE]Not with the main processors (stripe / paypal / 2cho). Anything that mentions social media they will just say "no". I've had some projects that are not anything todo with fake followers / likes but was related to social media sites and was refused. Sure you can get around it. But trying to legitamise your site by saying "growing social media accounts", I don't think will cut it.[/QUOTE]
Correct. Stripe etc wont play or will sut you down 10 days later.




[/QUOTE]sure that is always a possibility, to just "not worry about it". If you live in the arse end of Morroco it probably is a decent enough strategy, but that is not everyone. Assuming they opened the UK company and merchant account with their actual details, they have address / passport / ID details. IF you have $100 in your bank they are not going to be interested if you are doing $1000 sales a month, but when start hitting $10k, $50k and getting bigger. After having ignored their C&D and they decide to go after you. Sure it might not happen to you, but it has to others. The time to think about this and mitigate it is now, not once you have grown and bringing in decent revenues and already getting attention from facebook lawyers.[/QUOTE]
Also nothing to argue on that point.


[/QUOTE]Sorry I wasn't clear. I was only referring to the major US players, stripe / paypal et al. Of course there are outfits who don't care, but as OP said, they get terrible success rates and are not working well for OP
[/QUOTE]
Ok yes almost all US accounts will not play with this unless they are lying. I just spoke to cardseriveproviders.com about this and a few other things as I sometimes call other brokers to just see whats going on.
I mentioned organic growth vs fake, he agreed all fake is a no go. He also agreed most "organic" is just fake and mis named so US banks wont touch it. Some organic growers are real, and use jarvee, mother/child f/uf, shoutouts, etc. (not to debate if those work anymore just to show what i mean by growth services)
Those would only be doable out of the US afaik.