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A great resource is this: Money Laundering: What It Is and How to Prevent It
and this:
Applying canons of interpretation you can try to come to the right answers, but...
(1) According to SCOTUS BITTNER v. UNITED STATES it is NOT! But it was 5-4, so 4 of the "so-called learned" justices whose salary comes from their subject's TAXES STILL think they have an imaginary claim on other people's money! Shocking right?
(2) Same thing with the Supreme Court of India: Supreme Court says Enforcement Directorate cannot invoke PMLA as tax evasion comes under Income Tax Act - India Legal
I'll tell you what I had the displeasure of painfully coming to grips with over +4 decades: Even if the ECJ and SCOTUS delivered a coup de grâce landmark case today saying tax evasion is NOT money laundering, I would STILL, now even more than ever, avoid facing ANY and ALL "public servants" ...unless I had a MUCH BIGGER arsenal of deadly weaponry and fighting men willing to take NO prisoners (which is, sadly, NOT my case at all
). It is infinitely easier to STAY out of trouble than to get out of trouble!
Caveat Emptor!
PS. Pay the protection racket and be done with it.
Hey @Zikki I'm also amazed how most replies here are not only useless but designed to get you in trouble.
Let me narrow down 2 most common suggestions
1. exchange > EMI > brick and mortar bank account
Yes this might work for like 5k but for any serious amounts you will be asked for SoF either at the EMI or the bank or both once you mention to the bank it's crypto they might freeze your account. EMI even if crypto friendly can also freeze if as you say the rep feels unhappy.
2. Get it exchanged p2p and get false invoice to SoF the funds.
I see quite serious debate if this is money laundering or not, some people eager to prove it is not, but EVEN if it's not, and EVEN if the court decides later it is not you will still have a lot of trouble even if you win the case 5 years down the line while all your assets are frozen you've already lost so much time and money.
And even if it really is not money laundering it is still faking a document so are still on the hook for AT LEAST that.
I completely get you that your goal is not only to cash out a little but to do it without getting on the radar of the government and avoid unnecessary trouble, since after all it is all legal, it's just that banks are not crypto friendly enough yet.
Since I'm also an EU citizen and about to become Dubai resident soon my limited research shows that ENBD and ADCB might be somewhat crypto friendly but nobody has given me definitive answer for large amounts, since most people on forums and such that share such information are wiring small amounts. If you have some hands on expereince with Dubai banks I'll be happy if you share it.
As to your problem, the best route I've found is to go with a tech savvy crypto friendly PRIVATE bank where you can SoF millions and they are adequate enough to do it onchain by following your blockchain tranactions. The downside with that is that they want you to have 500k eur parked with them just to be able to use them for transactions. I solved that by providing them staked ether which is sitting anyway and making me yield, they take 20% of the yield which is not ideal but at least is making me more than their annual fees.
Let me narrow down 2 most common suggestions
1. exchange > EMI > brick and mortar bank account
Yes this might work for like 5k but for any serious amounts you will be asked for SoF either at the EMI or the bank or both once you mention to the bank it's crypto they might freeze your account. EMI even if crypto friendly can also freeze if as you say the rep feels unhappy.
2. Get it exchanged p2p and get false invoice to SoF the funds.
I see quite serious debate if this is money laundering or not, some people eager to prove it is not, but EVEN if it's not, and EVEN if the court decides later it is not you will still have a lot of trouble even if you win the case 5 years down the line while all your assets are frozen you've already lost so much time and money.
And even if it really is not money laundering it is still faking a document so are still on the hook for AT LEAST that.
I completely get you that your goal is not only to cash out a little but to do it without getting on the radar of the government and avoid unnecessary trouble, since after all it is all legal, it's just that banks are not crypto friendly enough yet.
Since I'm also an EU citizen and about to become Dubai resident soon my limited research shows that ENBD and ADCB might be somewhat crypto friendly but nobody has given me definitive answer for large amounts, since most people on forums and such that share such information are wiring small amounts. If you have some hands on expereince with Dubai banks I'll be happy if you share it.
As to your problem, the best route I've found is to go with a tech savvy crypto friendly PRIVATE bank where you can SoF millions and they are adequate enough to do it onchain by following your blockchain tranactions. The downside with that is that they want you to have 500k eur parked with them just to be able to use them for transactions. I solved that by providing them staked ether which is sitting anyway and making me yield, they take 20% of the yield which is not ideal but at least is making me more than their annual fees.
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I'm going to get hate for this but here I go anyway...
I'll let Charlie Munger explain to @Zikki why his question is NOT ripe for an answer yet...
Bruh what is going on in this thread...
@Zikki what's the amount you're trying to cash out, your residency, citizenship, and your salary? Then we can offer a proper solution.
@Zikki what's the amount you're trying to cash out, your residency, citizenship, and your salary? Then we can offer a proper solution.
Hi,
Could you please PM me the name of that bank ? Thank you!
As for Dubai banks and crypto, I have a friend who withdrew 7 fig sum from bitstamp into ENBD, without problems. He even bought some real estate with that money and he got the golden visa. He initially withdrew the money at a bank in the country where he is a citizen and resident, but they rejected him (EU).
Amina Group (was previously called SEBA) is one of the swiss banks u can use. Their banking experience is meh for the fees you pay, but it works. 500k min balance requirement held in whatever asset and i think minimum 1mil net worth required.
AMINA Crypto Bank | Regulated Corporate & Individual Banking
AMINA, formerly SEBA, is a Swiss-regulated bank supporting businesses and individual investors with traditional and digital assets (NFTs & crypto).
www.aminagroup.com
Amina Group (was previously called SEBA) is one of the swiss banks u can use. Their banking experience is meh for the fees you pay, but it works. 500k min balance requirement held in whatever asset and i think minimum 1mil net worth required.
AMINA Crypto Bank | Regulated Corporate & Individual Banking
AMINA, formerly SEBA, is a Swiss-regulated bank supporting businesses and individual investors with traditional and digital assets (NFTs & crypto).
Already tried. They don't accept my country (EU). In fact, they only accept clients from a few EU countries.
PM me first since I can't PM
About that friend, did ENBD asked SoF? Did he have previous history or introduction with ENBD. Can you get me in touch with him to ask him bunch of stuff?
Xapo is weird. You have only SEPA but only USD balance. So you will suffer the exchange rate all the time. I don't undertand what they are doing honestly. Otherwise with their history they would be a solid choice. Waiting for their card to be available for my country too.
The exchange rate is actually always almost exact same as ongoing market rate in forex. So the only problem would be that you are holding USD instead of EUR, which is fine for me. It's hard for them to get USD banking partner because of what happened when Silvergate and other crypto banks went bankrupt last year, they'll probably find a solution sometime soon since btc is getting more and more adoption in tardfi (or already found solution & finishing things up). Also you get access to UK's FPS rails as well not just SEPA (GBP acc with sort code and such). I sometimes run my crypto related funds through it before sending to local bank acc because they understand crypto and won't block the acc for no reason.PM me first since I can't PM
About that friend, did ENBD asked SoF? Did he have previous history or introduction with ENBD. Can you get me in touch with him to ask him bunch of stuff?
Xapo is weird. You have only SEPA but only USD balance. So you will suffer the exchange rate all the time. I don't undertand what they are doing honestly. Otherwise with their history they would be a solid choice. Waiting for their card to be available for my country too.
Yes I understand finding US partner is tricky (should be easier after they finally approve the btc ETF today or tomorrow) but what I don't get is if you have only SEPA, why you force your customers to keep money in US balance only? Right now dollar is depreceating against the EUR so kinda a bummer
Isn't like the easiest and most normal thing to have EUR balance if you do SEPA mainly?
p.s. have you got their card? how is it?
I'm guessing it's because they convert the EUR to USD to invest it in US treasuries, which is where their 4.1% interest comes from. The card is nothing special, it's metal with a slick design, but no apple/google pay support and no benefits really other than 1 free lounge access every year lol. I use Amex and Revolut mostly though because of the benefits & points stuff.Yes I understand finding US partner is tricky (should be easier after they finally approve the btc ETF today or tomorrow) but what I don't get is if you have only SEPA, why you force your customers to keep money in US balance only? Right now dollar is depreceating against the EUR so kinda a bummer
Isn't like the easiest and most normal thing to have EUR balance if you do SEPA mainly?
p.s. have you got their card? how is it?
The easiest way to do it in size is to buy property directly with crypto in the UAE and then sell the property for bank transfer and get the required documents. Seeing property docs, the bank won't ask any further questions. Else if the amount is smaller, then go to coinsfera/pallapay or other OTC in UAE and get cash or direct transfer.
That actually might work!
I bought property there recently and the SoF questions were more of a gimmick. However, I paid with bank wire.
If someone bought recently with stablecoin directly please tell us exactly what they asking for SoF?
There is a reporting requirement now for crypto or cash purchase of property in UAE. Is coinsfera still open? I think they have stopped operating in Dubai and also many other OTC desk have closed their service. Are you in Dubai?
ENBD hasn't been crypto friendly in case of Kraken, but for a 6-7 figure deposit, things may change.
FTA
Etihad and FTA have agreement in place.
Are they friendly to any other exchange?
Is there a way to know if they will be friendly to 7 figures before I actually send them and find them frozen?
Are there any consequences of being reported to FTA if you are fresh resident that doesn't owe any taxes anyway?
I know people have been questioned by ENBD about SoF for property purchase, as they were on course to deposit funds, the properties were purchased with BTC. Al Furjan and Barsha 3 projects specifically.
@PinkCat , why go with UAE banks at all when you are comfortable with 7 figures? Why not Swiss banks?
What I have heard RAKICC and any Swiss bank can work, that way you save on 9% CIT
Get in touch with good tax consultants in Dubai. Real lawyers and accountants, who know what they are saying.
@PinkCat , why go with UAE banks at all when you are comfortable with 7 figures? Why not Swiss banks?
What I have heard RAKICC and any Swiss bank can work, that way you save on 9% CIT
Get in touch with good tax consultants in Dubai. Real lawyers and accountants, who know what they are saying.
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