Dubai is dead, any alternative to the free zone 9% tax?

JonnyStekkino said:

Spoken with IFZA internal accounting team, and this is what came out in brief:

- VAT Registration mandatory, if you are late, do it and expect 10k AED fine.
- CIT Registration mandatory to be done
- Final Year Resolution date to be decided
- Accounting can be done Cash Basis if the revenue is less then 3M AED.

** Small Business Relief seems possible for everyone under 3M AED in the free zone only, means under 3M AED, still 0% tax, to note that accounting still need to be done, the business relief checkmark is do be done together in the yearly reporting.

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just wondering why ifza just cant put that out in a simple email to all?
Registration agents/auths in other countries literally inform their clients way before such rules/changes happen?

JonnyStekkino said:

Spoken with IFZA internal accounting team, and this is what came out in brief:

- VAT Registration mandatory, if you are late, do it and expect 10k AED fine.
- CIT Registration mandatory to be done
- Final Year Resolution date to be decided
- Accounting can be done Cash Basis if the revenue is less then 3M AED.

** Small Business Relief seems possible for everyone under 3M AED in the free zone only, means under 3M AED, still 0% tax, to note that accounting still need to be done, the business relief checkmark is do be done together in the yearly reporting.

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What about deadlines?

JackAlabama said:

just wondering why ifza just cant put that out in a simple email to all?
Registration agents/auths in other countries literally inform their clients way before such rules/changes happen?

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You know the answer lol.

JonnyStekkino said:

Dubai btw if keeps going in this direction is dead, before the deal was paying 5k eur license and you are good to go.

now it's:
5k license
2k ifza accounting
1-1.5k other accounting stuff they confirmed me they can't do so need to pay someone else
9% taxes eventually to pay after 2026 or who makes more than 3M

Just go to other juristictions, even Europe now it's more competitive than Dubai.

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Where can you find a country in the EU there you'll pay less than 9 percent in taxes? I can't come up with any, and that's even if I exclude dividend taxes.

AtlasShrugged said:

Where can you find a country in the EU there you'll pay less than 9 percent in taxes? I can't come up with any, and that's even if I exclude dividend taxes.

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and no income tax!

AtlasShrugged said:

Where can you find a country in the EU there you'll pay less than 9 percent in taxes? I can't come up with any, and that's even if I exclude dividend taxes.

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Non-dom in Malta?
Cyprus maybe with some clever structure. Non-dom, Estonian holding company, Cyprus IP Box...
Italy - If you are grandfathered in the old impatriate regime in Italy, or live in Campione d'Italia, or you earn so much so the Italian 100k lump sum tax is below 9%.
Maybe Romania micro company if you earn in the right range, but there are employee and office requirements on top of the tax.
Sark is not EU, but really close to France so it almost counts!
Polish IP Box - if you are a software developer, total tax can be 5% with a US LLC.
Non-dom in Ireland with passive income (rules are a bit stricter than Malta and Cyprus though)
St Barths in the Caribbean is technically part of the EU/France, and it's tax free after 5 years (and one can buy a 5 year old company). French islands in the pacific can also have very low tax. Possibly dutch caribbean islands too.
Bulgaria, CIT is 10%, but if you are a freelancer I think it's 7.5%, and if you have a foreign company in say Estonia or the UAE, maybe you can get a lower tax rate. Tax on dividends is only 5%.
Portugal - if you are under the old NHR regime, and structure things correctly you get under 9%

Cloudbanck said:

Non-dom in Malta?
Cyprus maybe with some clever structure. Non-dom, Estonian holding company, Cyprus IP Box...
Italy - If you are grandfathered in the old impatriate regime in Italy, or live in Campione d'Italia, or you earn so much so the Italian 100k lump sum tax is below 9%.
Maybe Romania micro company if you earn in the right range, but there are employee and office requirements on top of the tax.
Sark is not EU, but really close to France so it almost counts!
Polish IP Box - if you are a software developer, total tax can be 5% with a US LLC.
Non-dom in Ireland with passive income (rules are a bit stricter than Malta and Cyprus though)
St Barths in the Caribbean is technically part of the EU/France, and it's tax free after 5 years (and one can buy a 5 year old company). French islands in the pacific can also have very low tax. Possibly dutch caribbean islands too.
Bulgaria, CIT is 10%, but if you are a freelancer I think it's 7.5%, and if you have a foreign company in say Estonia or the UAE, maybe you can get a lower tax rate. Tax on dividends is only 5%.
Portugal - if you are under the old NHR regime, and structure things correctly you get under 9%

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Well there're all these "if's" and "structures" in that list. None are as straightforward as in Dubai.

In Romania you have to employ yourself and pay minimum wage and fees on top of it, and if you make over 500 000 eur, which isn't that much, in turnover the income tax becomes 16 percent.. It's not how it used to be. The politicians are a bunch of clowns that changes the taxes every year, which is no joke.

I'm not sure about the Cyprus structure you suggested to be legal. So you'll definitely end up paying 12.5 percent in taxes there, if not something has changed.

For Poland, not everyone is a software developer.

Not everyone has Italian roots either.

Not sure about Malta.

For Portugal I've heard that you'll eventually end up paying 20 percent in taxes if you have a company and that there's a lot of misconception regarding the the NHR regime. I personally won't trust a commie regime either.

So it's basically Bulgaria left, but not everyone is a freelancer. If you have company it's 10 percent corporate tax and 5 percent dividends.

AtlasShrugged said:

Well there're all these "if's" and "structures" in that list. None are as straightforward as in Dubai.

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Yeah, I mean I still think Dubai is worthwhile. But some people really want to live in the EU, so I was outlining possibilities.

What exactly is illegal in Cyprus? I was more giving pointers than proposing a full structure, but I am curious to know more about Cyprus.

For Italy, you dont need Italian roots for the proposed regimes. The impatriate regime in it's old form was open to anyone who hadnt lived in Italy in the past 2 years. And if settling in South Italy one removed 90% of income (employee income or business profits), and then the remaining 10% was taxed as usual. Was pretty good.

Agree on Portugal, seems messy.

But look into Malta. I have a friend there who has foreign income and pays zero tax as non dom.

Cloudbanck said:

Yeah, I mean I still think Dubai is worthwhile. But some people really want to live in the EU, so I was outlining possibilities.

What exactly is illegal in Cyprus? I was more giving pointers than proposing a full structure, but I am curious to know more about Cyprus.

For Italy, you dont need Italian roots for the proposed regimes. The impatriate regime in it's old form was open to anyone who hadnt lived in Italy in the past 2 years. And if settling in South Italy one removed 90% of income (employee income or business profits), and then the remaining 10% was taxed as usual. Was pretty good.

Agree on Portugal, seems messy.

But look into Malta. I have a friend there who has foreign income and pays zero tax as non dom.

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I'm also curious about Cyprus, but when you usually dig deeper into these clever structures, they don't work or in other words aren't legal. What's straightforward is that you'll pay 12.5 in taxes. I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere here that they added 2.5 percent in contributions or something like that, so it might be 15 percent instead of 12.5. Although, don't take my word for it.

Malta could be interesting, but you have to live there to be a tax resident. I've never been there, but from what I know, it's one of the most densely populated countries out there.

I'm not into conspiracy theories, but it seems a bit fishy that so many jurisdictions are changing at the same time, and not for the better. It's either tax evasion, being a billionaire and pay for some expensive structure, or pay around 10 percent in taxes in places like Dubai etc.

AtlasShrugged said:

Where can you find a country in the EU there you'll pay less than 9 percent in taxes? I can't come up with any, and that's even if I exclude dividend taxes.

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ecool said:

and no income tax!

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When Dubai was 0%, I was going to go see Fred. I actually had a conference call with Fred. Zero % is appealing, but now?

For starters....
(1) Monaco (a lot of you, if not all of you, have at least +€500K sitting in a bank account somewhere else or in stocks/crypto, instead of Monaco...I just don't understand this mindset ). Most of you are so smart and can easily make money but yet have an issue with Monaco because it's "small"? - Monaco is a hop, skip, and a jump away from France and Italy.
(2) Zug, CH! I pay less than 9% because of major business deductions. I have always paid less than 9% after I deducted all business expenses. To appease bank monkeys, I split my time between Monaco (+3 decades) and CH. Monaco's business taxes are 30% and using "tax havens outside the EU" is frowned upon by bank monkeys. CH uses CHF, so I have NO issues with € or $. Both countries are outside the EU in concept but inside the EU geographically and reachable by train. I don't have "other" people judging me and throwing uncertainty BS at me and I'm in a place that is 100% crypto-friendly Home - Crypto Valley Association and CH isn't blacklisted by the USA and the EU or any other part of the world. They speak my language and logic and look pretty much, physiognomy-wise, the same as me. I'm very comfortable, secure, and safe in both countries. Also, when traveling to Asia, especially China, I am NOT "questioned".

The best of all?

No surprises!

Of course, YMMV.

PS. NGL, if Dubai was still 0% and I could have saved on further business taxes (I would NEVER EVER take away the taxes I pay Zug now...that is a DEATH SENTENCE and I am not a fan of committing suicide ), I would have definitely joined Fred in Dubai...but that ship has sailed.

jafo said:

When Dubai was 0%, I was going to go see Fred. I actually had a conference call with Fred. Zero % is appealing, but now?

For starters....
(1) Monaco (a lot of you, if not all of you, have at least +€500K sitting in a bank account somewhere else or in stocks/crypto, instead of Monaco...I just don't understand this mindset ). Most of you are so smart and can easily make money but yet have an issue with Monaco because it's "small"? - Monaco is a hop, skip, and a jump away from France and Italy.
(2) Zug, CH! I pay less than 9% because of major business deductions. I have always paid less than 9% after I deducted all business expenses. To appease bank monkeys, I split my time between Monaco (+3 decades) and CH. Monaco's business taxes are 30% and using "tax havens outside the EU" is frowned upon by bank monkeys. CH uses CHF, so I have NO issues with € or $. Both countries are outside the EU in concept but inside the EU geographically and reachable by train. I don't have "other" people judging me and throwing uncertainty BS at me and I'm in a place that is 100% crypto-friendly Home - Crypto Valley Association and CH isn't blacklisted by the USA and the EU or any other part of the world. They speak my language and logic and look pretty much, physiognomy-wise, the same as me. I'm very comfortable, secure, and safe in both countries. Also, when traveling to Asia, especially China, I am NOT "questioned".

The best of all?

No surprises!

View attachment 6133

Of course, YMMV.

PS. NGL, if Dubai was still 0% and I could have saved on further business taxes (I would NEVER EVER take away the taxes I pay Zug now...that is a DEATH SENTENCE and I am not a fan of committing suicide ), I would have definitely joined Fred in Dubai...but that ship has sailed.

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Zug looks interesting, but Monaco sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

The investment requirement is too high because that's just the beginning... All services, accommodation, everything is priced in an insane way. I don't think it offers much value to be honest, unless you have hundreds of millions of dollars, own a yacht, etc.

JonnyStekkino said:

Spoken with IFZA internal accounting team, and this is what came out in brief:

- VAT Registration mandatory, if you are late, do it and expect 10k AED fine.
- CIT Registration mandatory to be done
- Final Year Resolution date to be decided
- Accounting can be done Cash Basis if the revenue is less then 3M AED.

** Small Business Relief seems possible for everyone under 3M AED in the free zone only, means under 3M AED, still 0% tax, to note that accounting still need to be done, the business relief checkmark is do be done together in the yearly reporting.

Click to expand...

I spoke with ifza end of last year and they said something similar.

They suggested on waiting to register for CIT as they're expecting new amendments/clarifications for freezone companies. Did you hear something similar?

yoyodubai said:

I spoke with ifza end of last year and they said something similar.

They suggested on waiting to register for CIT as they're expecting new amendments/clarifications for freezone companies. Did you hear something similar?

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Maybe Free zone complaint against FTA because they become useless and their business model are almost dead actually and they ask for less aggressive taxation rules

JonnyStekkino said:

actually no, they just said to register as soon as I can

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"actually no" symbolizes how it is. you ask 5 ppl you will get 10 answers and all differ.
Id pay a pretty penny to have one good binding answer to simple questions.

Exactly. How we can work our business without any proper answer, all in the unknown at the moment. Personally, I can’t; that’s why I’m researching for alternatives asap

JonnyStekkino said:

Same, everything is not clear and on top of that they put big fines without even giving grace periods.
Better moving out ASAP.

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Yes, one more point - the fines. I’m about to close asap but I’m looking for alternative, where can I move?