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ilpablo

Active Member
Hi everyone, i just moved to Romania which requires only an address as proof of residency.

If i want to protect myself from my country of origin's possibile investigations about my effective residency there, should be sufficient to:
- rent an apartment and make a mobile phone contact for the whole time (even if I'm not there)
- use this address + make a mobile phone contact + proof i was outside my original country more than 183 days during the year (but not in Romania)
- move to a another country with digital nomad visa permit

If you wouldn't spend too much time there during the whole year, how would you manage the situation?

Thanks!
 

maxmmm

Entrepreneur
Depends who are you running from.

If you are escaping a West European country with aggressive tax office, you absolutely 100% need a tax residency document which you will only get if you actually stay the 180+ days in wherever you choose to live (Romania is irrelevant here). Don't count on CRS not reporting you, don't count on anything, these days governments pay millions of euros for bank data. Also note that you actually will need to pay tax in Romania which may beat the purpose... consider moving to an actual tax haven like Cyprus\Monaco\Malaysia etc.

On the other hand if you're coming from a poor eastern european country with no technology or budget to chase you, may you can get around the situation with just address\ID card etc.
 

ilpablo

Active Member
Depends who are you running from.

If you are escaping a West European country with aggressive tax office, you absolutely 100% need a tax residency document which you will only get if you actually stay the 180+ days in wherever you choose to live (Romania is irrelevant here). Don't count on CRS not reporting you, don't count on anything, these days governments pay millions of euros for bank data. Also note that you actually will need to pay tax in Romania which may beat the purpose... consider moving to an actual tax haven like Cyprus\Monaco\Malaysia etc.

On the other hand if you're coming from a poor eastern european country with no technology or budget to chase you, may you can get around the situation with just address\ID card etc.
I'm coming from a western european country, I've got already my tax residency certificate and I'm gonna pay all my duties in Romania.
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
Then you should be fine.

Also actually use your Romania mobile each month and also keep a bank statement showing regular transactions in Romania each month. Thank me later ;).
 

kkein

Entrepreneur
Then you should be fine.

Also actually use your Romania mobile each month and also keep a bank statement showing regular transactions in Romania each month. Thank me later ;).
This is a good advice. I wonder how does this apply to programs such as the cyprus 60 days. Would it be enough to have proof of residency (transactions, mobile, card payments) spanning only 60 days, the tax certificate, and no presence where there shall be no presence for longer than the allowed period (usually 3 months, in EU and 4 months in the US)?
 

JustAnotherNomad

Mentor Group Gold
That depends on how strict the rules of your home country are and how much they are after you.
I guess you wouldn't ask here if you were sure there couldn't be an issue.

If your home country considers you tax resident based on some ties, then you would have to demonstrate closer ties to Bulgaria under the tax treaty.
For example, if your home country considers someone tax resident after having spent 90 days per year in the country and you have spent 100 days there, then you are tax resident under domestic law.
Then, if you spend 10 days in the same year in Bulgaria, your home country's authorities may not accept that as closer ties, even if you have an apartment there, and even if you have spent 255 days traveling the world.
Or they might, based on the fact hat you have an apartment there, but not in your home country. Or if you can show a tax residency certificate.

In practice, unless they have reason to be suspicious, they will probably be happy when you show them the rent agreement or your residency permit and won't bother to investigate.
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
In practice, unless they have reason to be suspicious, they will probably be happy when you show them the rent agreement or your residency permit and won't bother to investigate.

Sadly them days of just showing a residency card, rent contract and tax certificate are long gone. If taxman has reasonable grounds to believe you are not actually resident there and it is not the centre of your life they will ask you to show proof of living costs there.

P.S If they inquire then they already have some good intel on you :(
 

ilpablo

Active Member
Then you should be fine.

Also actually use your Romania mobile each month and also keep a bank statement showing regular transactions in Romania each month. Thank me later ;).
Hi Martin, thanks for the advice!
Yes ofc i would do that.
So do you think with thiñese proofs should i be fine even living abroad in 3rd countries (less than 183 days each)? Thanks again
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
So do you think with thiñese proofs should i be fine even living abroad in 3rd countries (less than 183 days each)? Thanks again

Yes
 

Chris99

New member
Then you should be fine.

Also actually use your Romania mobile each month and also keep a bank statement showing regular transactions in Romania each month. Thank me later ;).
Can i use the romanian phone also outside romania, as long as i consume credit and calls, or do i have to use it only when i am phisically in romania?
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
Can i use the romanian phone also outside romania, as long as i consume credit and calls, or do i have to use it only when i am phisically in romania?

You can use it wherever you want. You just want a statement at end of day showing some calls ideally to local Romanian numbers. Would look odd if anyone saw statement and it only had calls to your previous western European country ns2.
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
If you rent an apartment, install a computer there and try to mine some cryptocurrency. I know they do that in Italy, they check electricity and water consumption in some cases.

They do that in UK and US also but they are looking for home marijuana farms...lol.
 

JimBeam

Active Member
Clearly you need to have some usage on the utility bills (electricity, water, cell phone)...
Also don't use cash - make payments in grocery stores, pharmacies., stores, restaurants etc using credit/ debit card so these things will show up in your bank statements (that you've bought food, clothes there)...
 

tyrexoid

New member
If you rent an apartment, install a computer there and try to mine some cryptocurrency. I know they do that in Italy, they check electricity and water consumption in some cases.
lol is this for real, the tax office will ask for utility bill and can even decide what's good enough of a consumption and what not? o_O
is it even within the law, how do they decide about these small things to ask for, like is it written in the law that it's their business to use such things for decision making about whether to tax or not? in this case the laws should be really vague and open for interpretation, like to give the tax officer full authority to decide on his own what he considers proof and what not, is that the case in most of these countries with "aggressive tax office"? otherwise it all needs to be written down in the tax laws, about what counts as residency proof and what not, including the limits in kw/hr of electricity and m2 of water/month to prove you live there ns2
 

ilpablo

Active Member
Clearly you need to have some usage on the utility bills (electricity, water, cell phone)...
Also don't use cash - make payments in grocery stores, pharmacies., stores, restaurants etc using credit/ debit card so these things will show up in your bank statements (that you've bought food, clothes there)...
Do you think it's fine to show them expenses in a 3rd country if i live part of my time there (so i can proof i was outside my own country, but in this case not in my new residency country) or not?

Also it can work if after getting the tax residence in aow tax jurisdiction you move in a 3rd country with nomad visa (so you have to proof to be there and not in the other low tax jurisdiction country)
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
in this case the laws should be really vague and open for interpretation, like to give the tax officer full authority to decide on his own what he considers proof and what not, is that the case in most of these countries with "aggressive tax office"?

Yes.

If you look at rules like GAAR in Canada (same in most EU countries also) although not the same area as residency issue if you do no have very good lawyer ($$$$$$$) your finished.

---- quote start

The General Anti-Avoidance Rule essentially states that where a transaction, or a series of transactions results in a reduction, avoidance, or deferral of taxes owing, and the transaction or the series of transactions are only being attempted for the tax benefits, the transaction or transactions themselves may be invalidated.

The Supreme Court of Canada has established a three-point test in determining whether or not to have GAAR applied.


  1. Did a tax benefit arise from the transaction or series of transactions?
  2. Is/Are the transaction(s) found to be avoidance transactions?
  3. Is the transaction abusive?
Number one is easily satisfied as nearly all transactions are done with a tax benefit in mind.

The second question asks whether the primary purpose of the transaction is to obtain a tax benefit.

The third point is the most difficult point to prove for both sides. The question it poses is whether the transaction is inconsistent with the object, purpose, or spirit of the subsection being used by the taxpayer to obtain the tax benefit.

The above test is extremely vague, and both sides can usually be argued extremely well. If the CRA claims that a taxpayer is in violation of the GAAR, it will be up to the taxpayer to prove they are not. On that same note, the CRA must prove that the GAAR applies.

Guarding against the GAAR is extremely complex. If you are planning a transaction, or a series of transactions that might run afoul of the GAAR, you should seek immediate legal assistance.



---- end quote
 
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