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** Just an FYI no country gives a hoot about other countries capital controls as long as said funds are not coming from Western Countries.

This is not true at all. Many banks will not touch your money if they are aware you are evading foreign capital controls. This applies to HSBC and a few others I have dealt with in past. Even Standard Int Bank In Puerto Rico lost Fedwire access because for this back in day. The bank was a pure vehicle to help Chinese avoid capital controls and bank has now disappeared naturally.

We discussed this already in another thread with how Russian's used mirror trading to avoid controls and move RUB to EUR (and USD) outside the country and how Deutsche bank was fined $630m - even Danske bank got in trouble.

Whether you like it or not its an illicit money flow and banks have an obligation to avoid aiding and abetting such actions.

Any experience with this or just assuming? ( and could be true as it is just easier for them to close than to understand a complex situation involving P2P)

They will just close if your not a private banking customer. A bank is not gonna risk it all for a 5 euro swift fee to help you with a complex transaction unless it is economically viable and reputational ok to do.
 
This is not true at all. Many banks will not touch your money if they are aware you are evading foreign capital controls. This applies to HSBC and a few others I have dealt with in past. Even Standard Int Bank In Puerto Rico lost Fedwire access because for this back in day. The bank was a pure vehicle to help Chinese avoid capital controls and bank has now disappeared naturally.

We discussed this already in another thread with how Russian's used mirror trading to avoid controls and move RUB to EUR (and USD) outside the country and how Deutsche bank was fined $630m - even Danske bank got in trouble.

Whether you like it or not its an illicit money flow and banks have an obligation to avoid aiding and abetting such actions.



They will just close if your not a private banking customer. A bank is not gonna risk it all for a 5 euro swift fee to help you with a complex transaction unless it is economically viable and reputational ok to do.
Thank you. Basically I am getting two views on the matter from this thread:
i) try to hid the transactions through crypto, small transactions, collateralized loans, various accounts etc
ii) be transparent, it should be fine, declare taxes, and move on

This is not true at all. Many banks will not touch your money if they are aware you are evading foreign capital controls. This applies to HSBC and a few others I have dealt with in past. Even Standard Int Bank In Puerto Rico lost Fedwire access because for this back in day. The bank was a pure vehicle to help Chinese avoid capital controls and bank has now disappeared naturally.

We discussed this already in another thread with how Russian's used mirror trading to avoid controls and move RUB to EUR (and USD) outside the country and how Deutsche bank was fined $630m - even Danske bank got in trouble.

Whether you like it or not its an illicit money flow and banks have an obligation to avoid aiding and abetting such actions.



They will just close if your not a private banking customer. A bank is not gonna risk it all for a 5 euro swift fee to help you with a complex transaction unless it is economically viable and reputational ok to do.
A friend of mine (who used to deal a lot with crypto and OTC) told me to be semi-transparent in this sense:
- mention your source of fund (inheritance)
- mention P2P transactions as a much easier/cheaper channel, don't mention capital controls "I got a better rate sir"
 
A friend of mine (who used to deal a lot with crypto and OTC) told me to be semi-transparent in this sense:
- mention your source of fund (inheritance)
- mention P2P transactions as a much easier/cheaper channel, don't mention capital controls "I got a better rate sir"

When it comes to banks deal with them on a "need to know basis". Don't give over more than is necessary i.e talk to them like your Donald Trump in court. If it works then you may be fine. If it does not then your in for a rough ride.

What you say above will likely work but not something I would personally do.
 
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This is not true at all. Many banks will not touch your money if they are aware you are evading foreign capital controls. This applies to HSBC and a few others I have dealt with in past. Even Standard Int Bank In Puerto Rico lost Fedwire access because for this back in day. The bank was a pure vehicle to help Chinese avoid capital controls and bank has now disappeared naturally.
That's because they have correspondence risk.

Like i said : Local -> Tether/other -> Local.

the correspondence banking is then Tether which Tether are not liable for, meaning there is no liability (grapple points) apart from the end capital control evader.

No bank will risk their business interests domestically when acting as a corresponding bank.

The US absolutely loves this as Tether/Circle is backed by their debt, the EU is just resentful as no demand for their debt exists in the stable-coin market hence the low supply of EURC (or EURT etc).

-----

You think the US is not happy that the 3rd world is rushing to USD stable-coins ? knowing full well there would be capital control violations in those said group of countries? - if it was on the other foot they'd put in place restrictions/barriers/laws quickly etc.

For now some 100 billion $ of debt is held by Asians, Middle Easterners, Africans etc and that will only swell as more demand for $'s grow as the instability in local economies grows.

They will just close if your not a private banking customer. A bank is not gonna risk it all for a 5 euro swift fee to help you with a complex transaction unless it is economically viable and reputational ok to do.
Sorry this is wrong.

It is NOT illicit (derived from crime).

What is illicit capital?


The IMF and the Fight Against Illicit Financial Flows


Illicit financial flows refer to the movement of money across borders that is illegal in its source (e.g. corruption, smuggling), its transfer (e.g. tax evasion), or its use (e.g. terrorist financing).
 
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That's because they have correspondence risk.

Like i said : Local -> Tether/other -> Local.

the correspondence banking is then Tether which Tether are not liable for, meaning there is no liability (grapple points) apart from the end capital control evader.

No bank will risk their business interests domestically when acting as a corresponding bank.

The US absolutely loves this as Tether/Circle is backed by their debt, the EU is just resentful as no demand for their debt exists in the stable-coin market hence the low supply of EURC (or EURT etc).

-----

You think the US is not happy that the 3rd world is rushing to USD stable-coins ? knowing full well there would be capital control violations in those said group of countries? - if it was on the other foot they'd put in place restrictions/barriers/laws quickly etc.

For now some 100 billion $ of debt is held by Asians, Middle Easterners, Africans etc and that will only swell as more demand for $'s grow as the instability in local economies grows.


Sorry this is wrong.

It is NOT illicit (derived from crime).

What is illicit capital?


The IMF and the Fight Against Illicit Financial Flows


Illicit financial flows refer to the movement of money across borders that is illegal in its source (e.g. corruption, smuggling), its transfer (e.g. tax evasion), or its use (e.g. terrorist financing).
I think his point is that the KYC guy will be too lazy to investigate or appreciate the situation, regardless of the macro dynamics and US agenda..?
 
In Dubai - Cash is illegal?

News to me, thought Brits were flying over with suitcases full of cash....

How much cash can you deposit in UAE?

The daily cash deposit limit at CDMs and ITMs is AED 100,000 for individuals and AED 500,000 for non-individuals. The machine will alert you if you're attempting to deposit more than this amount.
You can come to Dubai with the cash, there are authorized companies that will take the cash and give you manager's cheque, that can be deposited if you open a bank account.
If you're interested in Real Estate, there are still some developers that are accepting cash.
If it's crypto, you can do full cryto payment to property, then flip it and get cash.
There are a lot of legal ways that you can still use cash in Dubai.
 
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The US absolutely loves this as Tether/Circle is backed by their debt, the EU is just resentful as no demand for their debt exists in the stable-coin market hence the low supply of EURC (or EURT etc).

I don't think it's debt they love as even at $100bn of U.S debt backing the stablecoins it is not a dent in $34trn of debt. The US government like Tether/Circle as it uses it as an intelligence apparatus to gather information.

 
I think his point is that the KYC guy will be too lazy to investigate or appreciate the situation, regardless of the macro dynamics and US agenda..?
No, you will go through KYC/AML as standard, the US is just an example, as a European you merely do


Local currency -> USDT/equiv -> Exchange (europe) -> Domestic bank.

You have all the paperwork to support the funds source you should provide that to the Exchange preemptively to get a green light, and also inform your bank before funds are sent to it..

Ensure you pay your taxes if any in source country, and ensure you pay your taxes in destination country if any.

Don't over complicate that makes it appear questionable and will cause more issues.

As for source country, only do this if you never intend to set foot back in the country, because they may not have the power to go after you in Europe (that wants this investment into the economy) but if you step back in Tunisia they may wish to set an example.

Again i reiterate, pay your taxes in source and destination.
 
You can come to Dubai with the cash, there are authorized companies that will take the cash and give you manager's cheque, that can be deposited if you open a bank account.
If you're interested in Real Estate, there are still some developers that are accepting cash.
If it's crypto, you can do full cryto payment to property, then flip it and get cash.
There are a lot of legal ways that you can still use cash in Dubai.
Thank you. I got "caught" with 2500 usd once (undeclared, I genuinely did not know). I had to write a letter to the judge or something to explain that I was not aware of the capital control situation. So travelling with cash to Dubai is impossible....
 
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I don't think it's debt they love as even at $100bn of U.S debt backing the stablecoins it is not a dent in $34trn of debt. The US government like Tether/Circle as it uses it as an intelligence apparatus to gather information.

The US loves where tether/circle is going because soviegn demand for US debt is in decline (China, Russia, Japan, etc).

They need someone to hold their debt.

Plebs in the third world will gradually and increasingly buy stable-coins which hold US debt.

The US Security apparatus is just another plus (catch all for data gathering).

You will notice the US Gov have NEVER stated that people are violating capital controls in third world nations and buying US Stablecoins. but gleefully discuss the idea stablecoins regulation will provide fresh demand for holding US debt (which stops inflation hitting mainstreet).
 
If you're interested in Real Estate, there are still some developers that are accepting cash.
If it's crypto, you can do full cryto payment to property, then flip it and get cash.

So your telling him to launder it basically? ns2
 
No, you will go through KYC/AML as standard, the US is just an example, as a European you merely do


Local currency -> USDT/equiv -> Exchange (europe) -> Domestic bank.

You have all the paperwork to support the funds source you should provide that to the Exchange preemptively to get a green light, and also inform your bank before funds are sent to it..

Ensure you pay your taxes if any in source country, and ensure you pay your taxes in destination country if any.

Don't over complicate that makes it appear questionable and will cause more issues.

As for source country, only do this if you never intend to set foot back in the country, because they may not have the power to go after you in Europe (that wants this investment into the economy) but if you step back in Tunisia they may wish to set an example.

Again i reiterate, pay your taxes in source and destination.
Good and sound approach, and absolutely agreed.
"Domestic" bank is Revolut and they don't have someone I should contact beforehand apprently, but I will ask the online support...:)
 
Good and sound approach, and absolutely agreed.
"Domestic" bank is Revolut and they don't have someone I should contact beforehand apprently, but I will ask the online support...:)
I wouldn't park 300,000$ in revolut... go and open a local bank in your local town centre, and state you are receiving inheritance and provide documentation and authorisation.

So your telling him to launder it basically? ns2
It's not laundering because it's not illicit money.

Again i reiterate the following.

It is NOT illicit (derived from crime).

What is illicit capital?


The IMF and the Fight Against Illicit Financial Flows



Illicit financial flows refer to the movement of money across borders that is illegal in its source (e.g. corruption, smuggling), its transfer (e.g. tax evasion), or its use (e.g. terrorist financing).

Capital Control violations in the 3rd world to get wealth in to Europe isn't 'illicit finance'.

It's capital flight, it happens every day in every part of the world derived from legitimate (presumed) inheritance.

It's only illicit finance if its derived from corruption, smuggling, tax-evasion or to be used for terrorist financing.
 
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It is NOT illicit (derived from crime).

What is illicit capital?

The crime was evasion of capital controls. Unless your saying its not an offense to evade capital controls ;).

In which case plenty of people locally will be able to help him legally if its not an offense.
 
The way you are talking Martin is that it would be illicit finance (laundering) for me to sell my property for USDT/crypto and move funds out of my country to another country.

As long as i paid the tax that money is mine, i've bought something and that something is then sold elsewhere.

As long as the tax is paid on both ends and the funds are not dirty, it is not illict finance as per the law in most jurisidictions and is how the world works, hence Canada properties bought by Chinese, Dubai properties bought by Indians, newly arrived residents of America fund their startup, immigrants of Europe pay for their new homes etc.

i don't make the rules but there's no document/link/url that states such an activity is illicit finance.

The crime was evasion of capital controls. Unless your saying its not an offense to evade capital controls ;).

In which case plenty of people locally will be able to help him legally if its not an offense.
They have a process to follow then. This is how the entire world works, and it happens everywhere every day, you don't see Europeans arrested for 'bringing their legitimate funds' out of sudan into Europe.

The European Union (EU) generally does not seize funds received as inheritance from a legitimate source. In the scenario you described, where a former citizen of Tunisia moves to Europe, obtains citizenship, and receives an inheritance from a deceased relative, the EU authorities would typically not consider these funds as illicit finance.

Here are some key points to consider:

  1. Legitimate source: If the funds can be traced back to a legitimate source, such as an inheritance, they are generally not considered illicit. Inheritances are typically recognized as a legitimate source of wealth transfer.
  2. Taxes and reporting: The recipient of the inheritance is usually required to report it to the relevant tax authorities in their European country of residence. They may be subject to inheritance or gift taxes, depending on local laws. It's essential to comply with tax regulations and reporting requirements to ensure transparency.
  3. Anti-money laundering (AML) and anti-terrorist financing (ATF) laws: While the EU has strict AML and ATF regulations in place to prevent the flow of illicit funds, these regulations primarily target money laundering and the financing of terrorism. If the funds can be shown to have a legitimate source, they are less likely to raise suspicion.
  4. Capital controls: The issue you mentioned about capital controls in Tunisia might complicate the transfer of funds, but this is a concern for the Tunisian authorities, not the EU. If the funds have been legally transferred out of Tunisia, and the necessary documentation and legal procedures have been followed, it is less likely that the EU would seize these funds.
However, it's important to note that individual cases can vary, and specific circumstances may lead to further scrutiny. In any cross-border financial transaction, it is advisable to seek professional legal and financial advice to ensure compliance with all relevant laws and regulations in both the home country (Tunisia) and the host country (European country) to avoid any potential issues.

The crime was evasion of capital controls. Unless your saying its not an offense to evade capital controls ;).

In which case plenty of people locally will be able to help him legally if its not an offense.
Like i said and as Chat GPT just stated, the EU doesn't give a s**t about inwards bound funds.

It's a problem for Tunisia and unless he's going back, theres f**k all they can do.

In the United States, similar principles apply when it comes to receiving an inheritance from a legitimate source, even if the funds originate from abroad. Here are some key points to consider:

  1. Legitimate source: If the funds can be traced back to a legitimate source, such as an inheritance, they are generally not considered illicit finance. Inheritances are typically recognized as a legitimate source of wealth transfer.
  2. Taxes and reporting: The recipient of the inheritance is usually required to report it to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in the United States. Depending on the size of the inheritance and other factors, the recipient may be subject to federal and state estate or inheritance taxes, but these taxes generally do not lead to the seizure of the funds if they are paid appropriately.
  3. Anti-money laundering (AML) laws: The United States has stringent AML regulations to prevent money laundering and the financing of terrorism. However, these regulations primarily target illegal activities and the movement of illicit funds. If the funds can be shown to have a legitimate source, such as an inheritance, they are less likely to raise suspicion under AML laws.
  4. Banking and financial regulations: Transferring large sums of money from abroad to the United States may trigger scrutiny by banks and financial institutions. They are obligated to follow Know Your Customer (KYC) and AML procedures. Proper documentation and transparency about the source of funds can help facilitate the transfer without issues.
  5. Gift and estate tax exemptions: The United States has exemptions for gift and estate taxes, and not all inheritances are subject to taxation. As of my knowledge cutoff date in January 2022, there were thresholds above which gift and estate taxes might apply. These thresholds and tax laws may change, so it's crucial to consult with a tax advisor or attorney to understand the current rules.
It's important to note that individual cases can vary, and specific circumstances may lead to further scrutiny. It is advisable to seek professional legal and financial advice when receiving a significant inheritance, especially when it involves international transfers, to ensure compliance with all relevant U.S. laws and regulations and to avoid any potential issues. Additionally, staying informed about any updates or changes in tax laws and regulations is essential for proper financial planning.

In the United Kingdom, similar principles apply when it comes to receiving an inheritance from a legitimate source, even if the funds originate from abroad. Here are some key points to consider:

  1. Legitimate source: If the funds can be traced back to a legitimate source, such as an inheritance, they are generally not considered illicit finance. Inheritances are typically recognized as a legitimate source of wealth transfer.
  2. Taxes and reporting: The recipient of the inheritance is usually required to report it to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) in the United Kingdom. Depending on the size of the inheritance and other factors, the recipient may be subject to inheritance tax, but this tax generally does not lead to the seizure of the funds if they are paid appropriately.
  3. Anti-money laundering (AML) laws: The United Kingdom has stringent AML regulations to prevent money laundering and the financing of terrorism. However, these regulations primarily target illegal activities and the movement of illicit funds. If the funds can be shown to have a legitimate source, such as an inheritance, they are less likely to raise suspicion under AML laws.
  4. Banking and financial regulations: Transferring large sums of money from abroad to the UK may trigger scrutiny by banks and financial institutions. They are obligated to follow Know Your Customer (KYC) and AML procedures. Proper documentation and transparency about the source of funds can help facilitate the transfer without issues.
  5. Inheritance tax exemptions: The United Kingdom has exemptions and thresholds for inheritance tax, and not all inheritances are subject to taxation. The threshold and tax rates may change, so it's important to consult with a tax advisor or solicitor to understand the current rules.
It's important to note that individual cases can vary, and specific circumstances may lead to further scrutiny. It is advisable to seek professional legal and financial advice when receiving a significant inheritance, especially when it involves international transfers, to ensure compliance with all relevant UK laws and regulations and to avoid any potential issues. Additionally, staying informed about any updates or changes in tax laws and regulations is essential for proper financial planning.

and finally....

Does the EU have issues with inward flow of capital from Tunisia sourced from inheritance that has bypassed Tunisian capital controls (evaded)


ChatGPT
The European Union (EU) and its member states generally do not have issues with the inward flow of capital sourced from a legitimate inheritance, even if it has bypassed Tunisian capital controls. It's important to understand that the EU's primary concern is with the legality of the funds and whether they have a legitimate source, not the specific capital controls of another country.
Here are some key points to consider:
  1. Legitimate Source: If the funds can be traced back to a legitimate source, such as an inheritance, they are generally not considered illicit or problematic in the EU. Inheritances are typically recognized as a legitimate source of wealth transfer.
  2. EU Capital Controls: The EU does not impose capital controls on the inflow of funds from other countries, including Tunisia. The EU's focus is more on ensuring that funds are not of illicit origin, rather than regulating the source country's capital controls.
  3. Anti-Money Laundering (AML) and Due Diligence: Financial institutions operating within the EU are required to follow strict AML and due diligence procedures. However, these procedures are primarily designed to detect and prevent money laundering and the financing of terrorism. If the source of the funds is legitimate, such as an inheritance, they are less likely to raise concerns under AML regulations.
  4. National Taxation: The recipient of the inheritance may be required to report it to the tax authorities in their European country of residence and pay any applicable taxes. Taxation of inheritances is typically a national matter, and each EU member state may have its own rules and exemptions.
While the EU generally does not have issues with the inward flow of capital from Tunisia sourced from a legitimate inheritance, it's essential to ensure that all necessary documentation and legal procedures have been followed to demonstrate the legitimate source of the funds. Additionally, the recipient should comply with tax regulations in their European country of residence to avoid any potential issues related to taxation.
It's advisable for individuals involved in cross-border financial transactions, especially those related to inheritances, to seek professional legal and financial advice to navigate the complexities of international financial regulations and ensure compliance with all relevant laws and regulations in both the source country (Tunisia) and the receiving country (EU member state).
 
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They have a process to follow then. This is how the entire world works, and it happens everywhere every day, you don't see Europeans arrested for 'bringing their legitimate funds' out of sudan into Europe.

Like any crime they will be arrested if caught. When capital controls exist you be wise not to evade them or if stupid enough to try then get caught. Not sure why you mentioned Sudan but I think most foreigners have left Sudan due to on-going civil war btw and doubt they kept any funds inside the country...lol

i.e from the 1MDB scandal in Malaysia:

- Legal Consequences: When individuals or entities are caught evading capital controls, they can face severe legal consequences, including hefty fines, imprisonment, or even the forfeiture of assets. For example, in 2019, Malaysia charged several individuals and entities with money laundering and evading capital controls related to the 1MDB scandal, resulting in significant legal penalties.

To evade capital controls you are ultimately gonna have to launder the money. So good luck.
 
Like any crime they will be arrested if caught. When capital controls exist you be wise not to evade them or if stupid enough to try then get caught. Not sure why you mentioned Sudan but I think most foreigners have left Sudan due to on-going civil war btw and doubt they kept any funds inside the country...lol

i.e from the 1MDB scandal in Malaysia:

- Legal Consequences: When individuals or entities are caught evading capital controls, they can face severe legal consequences, including hefty fines, imprisonment, or even the forfeiture of assets. For example, in 2019, Malaysia charged several individuals and entities with money laundering and evading capital controls related to the 1MDB scandal, resulting in significant legal penalties.

To evade capital controls you are ultimately gonna have to launder the money. So good luck.
Like mentioned, in the EU, US, UK they do not see issue with this as long as the funds are from legitimate sources.

EU, US, UK banks would have issued if sitting in-between countries as correspondent as they could loose licenses or be fined, so are risk adverse.

Crypto provides the pass through.

In EU, US, UK funds derived from legitimate source are not illegal.

As long as he doesn't return to said country he has nothing to worry about.

I'd love to see a extradition request for this, in all the years i've been trying to understand various parts of international finance i've never seen an extradition request for joe blogs trying to remit his legitimate funds from a despot regime.

As for the post, it's hit an ending for me. The law is clear, the greyness is ok as long as it's legit.
 
Like any crime they will be arrested if caught. When capital controls exist you be wise not to evade them or if stupid enough to try then get caught. Not sure why you mentioned Sudan but I think most foreigners have left Sudan due to on-going civil war btw and doubt they kept any funds inside the country...lol

i.e from the 1MDB scandal in Malaysia:

- Legal Consequences: When individuals or entities are caught evading capital controls, they can face severe legal consequences, including hefty fines, imprisonment, or even the forfeiture of assets. For example, in 2019, Malaysia charged several individuals and entities with money laundering and evading capital controls related to the 1MDB scandal, resulting in significant legal penalties.

To evade capital controls you are ultimately gonna have to launder the money. So good luck.
Oh yea, I never said there is no local consequence in Tunisia. See my post above when I had 2500 usd in my wallet (that are always with me in case..)
 
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Oh yea, I never said there is no local consequence in Tunisia. See my post above when I had 2500 usd in my wallet (that are always with me in case..)

Cool just keep this in mind when deciding on your options.

Like mentioned, in the EU, US, UK they do not see issue with this as long as the funds are from legitimate sources.

Yes they do. I cited US and its territory Puerto Rico banks. Same with Deutsche Bank an Danske bank in EU. They do not wish to be part of misuse of the financial system to commit financial crimes whether at home or abroad which evading capital or currency controls is. This is not hard to understand....lol.

EU, US, UK banks would have issued if sitting in-between countries as correspondent as they could loose licenses or be fined, so are risk adverse.

U.S took issue with its own territories bank in Puerto Rico - Standard International Bank. There was no correspondence banking relationship for USD. The bank had direct Fedwire clearing ability i.e direct connection with Federal reserve bank. They lost the connection for the activity I described. The bank was a Chinese setup primarily used by Chinese residents to evade capital controls. Hence it was used for criminal activity.


A financial crime does not need to take place in a banks country of operation for a bank to acknowledge client wrong doing....lol. And evading capital controls is a crime as I mentioned.
 
Yes they do. I cited US and its territory Puerto Rico banks. Same with Deutsche Bank an Danske bank in EU. They do not wish to be part of misuse of the financial system to commit financial crimes whether at home or abroad which evading capital or currency controls is. This is not hard to understand....lol.



U.S took issue with its own territories bank in Puerto Rico - Standard International Bank. There was no correspondence banking relationship for USD. The bank had direct Fedwire clearing ability i.e direct connection with Federal reserve bank. They lost the connection for the activity I described. The bank was a Chinese setup primarily used by Chinese residents to evade capital controls. Hence it was used for criminal activity.


A financial crime does not need to take place in a banks country of operation for a bank to acknowledge client wrong doing....lol. And evading capital controls is a crime as I mentioned.
Well, then you can be at peace knowing it's not involving the US, but Europe, and Tunisia, and isn't considered illicit finance in the EU, unless you are willing to provide some form of evidence (court-cases) to support the following aspersions.

1) It's illicit finance
2) I am advising someone how to 'launder their illicit finance'.

Those are the two claims you've made in this thread.
 
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