Euro Pacific bank is a scam

[Radko]

The gold was not supposed to be sold. That was the point of transferring to Qenta. Customers who did not Opt-in to Qenta had to sell their gold, so the bank could wire out cash. The only way customers could keep their gold was to transfer it to Qenta. That is another reason I wanted customers to have that option. However, I can not say for sure what happened to the gold and silver. I've asked Qenta several times, but never got an answer. Hopefully they did not sell any of it, as all metals where supposed to be credited to customers new Qenta accounts as metal.

Any idea what happened to the Silver and the Mutual funds?

 

[Pschiff]

QENTA’s wording that it is returning “all liquidated assets to the Receiver as they were originally received” almost certainly means they intend to hand back only the original cash values they received – not any gains made while those funds were held.

Given the significant appreciation of gold and silver during the interim, QENTA’s decision to return only the original value - that is, for those of us whose EPB metals assets were likely allocated into QENTA's gold platform - is an act of clear bad faith.

It looks to me like a clear case of unjust enrichment, with QENTA benefiting from asset appreciation that rightfully belongs to customers. Those funds were implicitly held for our benefit, not QENTA’s profit-making.

This must be challenged, and my concern is that silence now could be interpreted as consent, and could allow QENTA to lock in profits that were never theirs to begin with.

I would be keen to hear Peter's and others' takes on this.

I would support customers in this, as Qenta was not supposed to sell any gold or silver it received. One of the reason customers chose to go with Qenta was to keep their gold. It would be unjust enrichment for Qenta to sell the gold and silver now, and keep all the profits for itself. Also I read "as they were originally received" to mean if Qenta received ounces of gold and silver, they will return ounces of gold or silver. Returning cash when they originally received gold and silver is not "as they were received."

 

[Pschiff]

Where was the gold stored? At Perth Mint?

No, the bank moved it from the Perth Mint to Silver Bullion in Singapore. I am not sure where Qenta moved it from there, or where it is now. I have asked several times, but have never received an answer.

 

[danielboros]

As the last time I messaged them I had a reply, I decied to get in touch again.
So those are my questions. Let's wait now.

if you managed to get a reply from the receiver as an OPT IN before then you are a legend.

 

[Martin Everson]

I would like to know what Qenta did with the Opt-in funds from when they took custody. They were in possession of a little around $18-$19m I believe. Did they earn interest on these funds and will that be returned? Were the funds invested in the Gold token which is what they said would happen and are they keeping the profits as gold has appreciated from when they took custody of customer funds till now. If they did not invest the funds and just had them rotting in an interest fee bank account, they need to provide proof.

Whatever the situation you have as much chance of recovering any earnings Qenta made on any EPB client assets as Putin does getting back interest on frozen Russian assets in EU.

On another note I would personally wait to get back any money owed before pursing any form of legal action. Once folk get their wire/check or precious metals back etc then pursue whatever legal angle you want. No point in delaying things further when there is light at end of tunnel. Legal cases can go on for years.

 

[spartan7510]

QENTA’s wording that it is returning “all liquidated assets to the Receiver as they were originally received” almost certainly means they intend to hand back only the original cash values they received – not any gains made while those funds were held.

Given the significant appreciation of gold and silver during the interim, QENTA’s decision to return only the original value - that is, for those of us whose EPB metals assets were likely allocated into QENTA's gold platform - is an act of clear bad faith.

It looks to me like a clear case of unjust enrichment, with QENTA benefiting from asset appreciation that rightfully belongs to customers. Those funds were implicitly held for our benefit, not QENTA’s profit-making.

This must be challenged, and my concern is that silence now could be interpreted as consent, and could allow QENTA to lock in profits that were never theirs to begin with.

I would be keen to hear Peter's and others' takes on this.

Well as an opt-out client, I had to liquidate my Gold holdings in order to facilitate a transfer. The promise was 3 months we would have money back and process wrapped up.
I had to sell mine at around $1750 an ounce..... could have bought it back which was the plan within 3 months for around same price. But now, will not be able to recover what was lost.

So I think we are all in the same boat with this nonesense.

 

[spartan7510]

The gold was not supposed to be sold. That was the point of transferring to Qenta. Customers who did not Opt-in to Qenta had to sell their gold, so the bank could wire out cash. The only way customers could keep their gold was to transfer it to Qenta. That is another reason I wanted customers to have that option. However, I can not say for sure what happened to the gold and silver. I've asked Qenta several times, but never got an answer. Hopefully they did not sell any of it, as all metals where supposed to be credited to customers new Qenta accounts as metal.

As I recall, the reason I opted out, was becuase opt-ins were issued with a digital token from Quenta, kinda like a digital "promissory note" not exactly the physical Gold we had at EPB

 

[stalker]

According to ChatGPT there's a very good chance that the profit from the gold will be distributed between OPT INS and OPT OUTS.
So OPT INS took the risk and OPT OUTS will take the profit.

i wrote that before chatgpt some pages ago: when a bank is in liquidation, every asset becomes shared so even clients "cash only" like me should benefit the sales of the metals , not only the gold. I made an estimation that every customer should receive approximately 15.000 $ more...

 

[Alpinist]

Does this mean that the Receiver is going to return customers funds by sending a check?

If the receiver will use Cheque, it will be just from one nightmare to other one.

The banks will not accept cheque with large amount more than 10k here in Europe.

The recover is a smart one always a step ahead. As more time will be used more he will make profit.

 

[SCHLOSSFINANZ]

untrue. You can deposit a cheque with >10k USD. It just takes a month to clear.

 

[Alpinist]

Conditions for using a cheque in a European bank

Must be in the local currency (typically EUR or GBP).

1. Must be drawn on a bank accepted in that country.
2. May require special clearance if it’s a foreign cheque – often takes 2–6 weeks to process and carries high fees.
3. You must have a local bank account to deposit or issue a cheque.
4. Some banks may refuse foreign cheques altogether unless it’s a certified cheque or bank draft.

Where cheques are almost obsolete or rarely accepted:

Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Nordic countries, Spain , Italy.

FROM Chat GPT and Google

 

[SCHLOSSFINANZ]

You can deposit USD cheques. Chat GPT is totally wrong on that.
Of course you need a bank account at the bank where you want to deposit the cheque.

 

[Sols]

Conditions for using a cheque in a European bank

Must be in the local currency (typically EUR or GBP).

1. Must be drawn on a bank accepted in that country.
2. May require special clearance if it’s a foreign cheque – often takes 2–6 weeks to process and carries high fees.
3. You must have a local bank account to deposit or issue a cheque.
4. Some banks may refuse foreign cheques altogether unless it’s a certified cheque or bank draft.

Where cheques are almost obsolete or rarely accepted:

Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Nordic countries, Spain , Italy.

FROM Chat GPT and Google

Absolute nonsense. Total AI slop. Don't spread misinformation.

It all comes down to whether your bank has the necessary relationships to clear a US issued USD check. Some do, some don't. If you bank with a small local bank, you might need to ask a bigger bank for help.

 

[Radko]

untrue. You can deposit a cheque with >10k USD. It just takes a month to clear.

Sending a check by mail is risky, what happens if it gets lost?

 

[Pypenator]

I live in South Africa where the Post Office has completely collapsed. How will I get my cheque?

 

[SCHLOSSFINANZ]

Sending a check by mail is risky, what happens if it gets lost?

its not a bearer cheque. Its a chequed issued to you, and only you can draw it on your account

 

[Octopus]

I would support customers in this, as Qenta was not supposed to sell any gold or silver it received. One of the reason customers chose to go with Qenta was to keep their gold. It would be unjust enrichment for Qenta to sell the gold and silver now, and keep all the profits for itself. Also I read "as they were originally received" to mean if Qenta received ounces of gold and silver, they will return ounces of gold or silver. Returning cash when they originally received gold and silver is not "as they were received."

Thanks Peter - I really appreciate your taking the time to respond on here, and hearing your take on this. I certainly hope you're right. It seems that the meaning of “as originally received” will hinge on how customers' precious metals assets within EPB were transferred to QENTA - either:

1. EPB liquidated customers' metals accounts into cash, and QENTA then converted that cash into gold within their system; or
2. Custodianship of EPB customers' metals was directly transferred to QENTA.

It seems we don't have clarity on this point at present. However, this quote from the December 16, 2022 update on the website suggests Route 1 happened:

“Qenta will convert migrated funds to gold as our license requires us to do, however we will assume all the risk on this conversion and your current exposure on migrated funds will remain the same as before and these funds can be liquidated at any time post migration.”

...suggesting that QENTA "originally received" cash, with instructions to convert these to amounts of gold mirroring customers' EPB metals holdings.

It's also worth asking why QENTA are bailing now. Walking away at this late stage doesn’t recover the extra costs they’ve complained about, and it means giving up the potential long-term benefits of finally acquiring the new customers and assets under management. A plausible explanation is that the gold holdings have appreciated significantly, and QENTA now stands to gain more by keeping those profits - which will surely dwarf whatever additional costs they've incurred - than by completing the migration.

Also, if QENTA truly incurred substantial unexpected costs, it makes no sense that they’re now willing to return all assets without seeking reimbursement or holding something back. That contradiction supports the idea that they’re making up for it elsewhere – likely via retained profits from gold appreciation.

Relatively speaking of course, this issue sits lower on the priority list than simply getting anything back at all - and in that respect, I’d be very happy if QENTA returns the original cash amounts to the receiver. But if the more cynical interpretation of their intents is correct, opt-in customers bore all the counterparty risk of having their assets held by this company for years, yet are potentially now being told they are not entitled to none of the upside from the asset appreciation.

 

[Andrew Cobb]

Thanks Peter - I really appreciate your taking the time to respond on here, and hearing your take on this. I certainly hope you're right. It seems that the meaning of “as originally received” will hinge on how customers' precious metals assets within EPB were transferred to QENTA - either:

1. EPB liquidated customers' metals accounts into cash, and QENTA then converted that cash into gold within their system; or
2. Custodianship of EPB customers' metals was directly transferred to QENTA.

It seems we don't have clarity on this point at present. However, this quote from the December 16, 2022 update on the website suggests Route 1 happened:



...suggesting that QENTA "originally received" cash, with instructions to convert these to amounts of gold mirroring customers' EPB metals holdings.

It's also worth asking why QENTA are bailing now. Walking away at this late stage doesn’t recover the extra costs they’ve complained about, and it means giving up the potential long-term benefits of finally acquiring the new customers and assets under management. A plausible explanation is that the gold holdings have appreciated significantly, and QENTA now stands to gain more by keeping those profits - which will surely dwarf whatever additional costs they've incurred - than by completing the migration.

Also, if QENTA truly incurred substantial unexpected costs, it makes no sense that they’re now willing to return all assets without seeking reimbursement or holding something back. That contradiction supports the idea that they’re making up for it elsewhere – likely via retained profits from gold appreciation.

Relatively speaking of course, this issue sits lower on the priority list than simply getting anything back at all - and in that respect, I’d be very happy if QENTA returns the original cash amounts to the receiver. But if the more cynical interpretation of their intents is correct, opt-in customers bore all the counterparty risk of having their assets held by this company for years, yet are potentially now being told they are not entitled to none of the upside from the asset appreciation.

Let's wait and see what Qenta returns to the Receiver before we do anything. Once the Receiver has the funds we can pester the Receiver, OCFI and Qenta and demand a details explination of what was returned. Whatever Qenta returns and the explanation accompanying the returned assets, I want to see proof of Qenta's claims (I know I'm asking a lot here). My bet is Qenta will only return the Net Asset Value in USD as at the time Qenta took custody of the funds to the receiver, so no Gold or Silver or any potential asset appreciation....I hope I'm wrong.

 

[SCHLOSSFINANZ]

why should they return asset appreciation? You are dreaming. By law they have to return the funds they received at the time of signing the SPA. That it went up is Qenta's benefit sadly.

 

[Pschiff]

Thanks Peter - I really appreciate your taking the time to respond on here, and hearing your take on this. I certainly hope you're right. It seems that the meaning of “as originally received” will hinge on how customers' precious metals assets within EPB were transferred to QENTA - either:

1. EPB liquidated customers' metals accounts into cash, and QENTA then converted that cash into gold within their system; or
2. Custodianship of EPB customers' metals was directly transferred to QENTA.

It seems we don't have clarity on this point at present. However, this quote from the December 16, 2022 update on the website suggests Route 1 happened:



...suggesting that QENTA "originally received" cash, with instructions to convert these to amounts of gold mirroring customers' EPB metals holdings.

It's also worth asking why QENTA are bailing now. Walking away at this late stage doesn’t recover the extra costs they’ve complained about, and it means giving up the potential long-term benefits of finally acquiring the new customers and assets under management. A plausible explanation is that the gold holdings have appreciated significantly, and QENTA now stands to gain more by keeping those profits - which will surely dwarf whatever additional costs they've incurred - than by completing the migration.

Also, if QENTA truly incurred substantial unexpected costs, it makes no sense that they’re now willing to return all assets without seeking reimbursement or holding something back. That contradiction supports the idea that they’re making up for it elsewhere – likely via retained profits from gold appreciation.

Relatively speaking of course, this issue sits lower on the priority list than simply getting anything back at all - and in that respect, I’d be very happy if QENTA returns the original cash amounts to the receiver. But if the more cynical interpretation of their intents is correct, opt-in customers bore all the counterparty risk of having their assets held by this company for years, yet are potentially now being told they are not entitled to none of the upside from the asset appreciation.

The gold and silver transferred to Qenta was not sold by the bank. The holding at silver bullion were simply assigned to Qenta. So Silver Bullion simple change the ownership of the gold and silver from the Bank's name to Qenta's. What Qenta was going to do was convert those gold bars to G-coin, without exposing customers to any losses on the conversion. I don't know what they were going to do with the silver. So if they return the assets as originally received, and the gold is current held as G-coin, then they need to sell the G-coin, and buy back the same number of physical ounces. However since the purchase was never closed, and customer accounts never established, the conversion of bullion to G-coin may never have been made.