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#21
alley said:
I can imagine that in countries like Singapore or Dubai, it doesn’t really matter. It's primarily within the EU that you can't just run company transactions through a personal account. If there's ever a tax audit, you could end up in serious trouble.
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I know many in Europe that did this and never had any problems. You will run into problems if you just completely mix your transactions. I.e. if you use the same account for buying food at Costco and receiving money from your personal eBay sales as you use for your company. If you use a dedicated personal account only for company, there is no problem (unless you are from a country which specifially mandates the use of corporate accounts). And it is also no problem like in the case of @slink where you use a personal account to receive GST refunds once per quarter. IRAS allows you to use any account in any name. Generally, it is also no problem to run travel expenses through personal credit cards and then refunding them from the company account in bulk.

The problem only arises when it becomes a complete mess and unclear what transactions are for the company and which ones not.
 
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#24
daniels27 said:
Where is that?
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Try doing that in Denmark, they’d tattoo your ring muscle and claim you’re Sanjay Shah, even if he’s in prison and you’re a redhead running a vegetable stall in the middle of Copenhagen.
 
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#25
daniels27 said:
With username and password ;)
And if necessary you may have to fire your accountant if he tells you to use business accounts only.


Most countries do not have any such requirement. It is perfectly fine to use personal accounts for business purposes.

Of course in an ideal world, you would use business accounts for that. But there are many valid reasons why people use personal accounts. Getting a GST refund from Singapore is a very valid reason for that. You can just get the money there and then either transfer it back to a company account elsewhere or use it as part of a director's fee / dividend payment.

It really does not make any sense to open a business account in Singapore to get the quarterly GST refunds. And you cannot use that account for anything else as any transaction would immediately trigger a tax liability for money remitted to Singapore.
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Yeah, but you're violating the Terms of Service, as most banks prohibit the use of personal accounts for business purposes.
 
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#26
aniglo22 said:
Yeah, but you're violating the Terms of Service, as most banks prohibit the use of personal accounts for business purposes.
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It higly depends on the jurisdiction. In many jurisdictions self-employed have no other choice than using a personal account. Hence, the banks know that and accept such use. And even for proper companies, banks in places like the US etc. generally accept such use. See Chase:

Can I use a personal account for my business?
While it’s possible to use a personal account for your business, it’s not recommended. A separate business account helps you keep personal and business finances separate, which is important for legal, tax and professional reasons.
Click to expand...

For example Amazon and PayPal both allow payouts to either an account in the name of the business or in the owner/director. Generally, the banks won't be able to tell whether the money comes from a LLC or from self-employment.

Then, there are places like many in the EU where banks offer special self-employment packages as the personal account are not really meant for this. Hong Kong would be another example where self-employed can use personal accounts, but only up to a quite limited extent, i.e. receiving sales commissions in the magnitude of a normal high salary probably will work, while doing goods trading in the millions will most likely lead to account closure.

In Germany, you can use a personal account for any transparent entity, including the prevalent KG:
Solange Sie nicht als Kapitalgesellschaft agieren, können Sie Ihr Privatkonto auch als Geschäftskonto nutzen. In manchen (seltenen) Fällen gibt es jedoch Ärger mit den Banken, wenn diese bemerken, dass über das Privatkonto geschäftliche Transaktionen abgewickelt werden.
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(In English: You can use personal account for transparent entities. For intransparent entities (Kapitalgesellschaften), a business account is needed.)

I personally would recommend using a business account whenever possible. If you have some Singapore Pty Ltd and need to get back GST from IRAS, I guess if they offer the choice of any account on the GIRO application, it is legit in that case.
 
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#27
daniels27 said:
It higly depends on the jurisdiction. In many jurisdictions self-employed have no other choice than using a personal account. Hence, the banks know that and accept such use. And even for proper companies, banks in places like the US etc. generally accept such use. See Chase:



For example Amazon and PayPal both allow payouts to either an account in the name of the business or in the owner/director. Generally, the banks won't be able to tell whether the money comes from a LLC or from self-employment.

Then, there are places like many in the EU where banks offer special self-employment packages as the personal account are not really meant for this. Hong Kong would be another example where self-employed can use personal accounts, but only up to a quite limited extent, i.e. receiving sales commissions in the magnitude of a normal high salary probably will work, while doing goods trading in the millions will most likely lead to account closure.

In Germany, you can use a personal account for any transparent entity, including the prevalent KG:

(In English: You can use personal account for transparent entities. For intransparent entities (Kapitalgesellschaften), a business account is needed.)

I personally would recommend using a business account whenever possible. If you have some Singapore Pty Ltd and need to get back GST from IRAS, I guess if they offer the choice of any account on the GIRO application, it is legit in that case.
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Where did I mention the legal aspect ?
I'm talking about the terms of service (or in german : AGB )
Even chase doesn't allow the business use of personal accounts (https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chase-ux/documents/personal/checking/deposit-account-agreement.pdf) :
A. Personal Accounts
If your account is a type listed under “Personal Accounts” in our product information, you agree not to use it for business purposes. Ownership of your account is determined by the most current signature card. However, we are authorized to rely on the account ownership information contained in our deposit system unless we are notified that the most current signature card and the deposit system contain different information.
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#28
aniglo22 said:
I'm talking about the terms of service (or in german : AGB )
Even chase doesn't allow the business use of personal accounts (https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chase-ux/documents/personal/checking/deposit-account-agreement.pdf) :
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Yes, but still, they tolerate it. Of course the terms say otherwise, but their website is pretty clear that they tolerate it at least up to some extent.

Again, I personally would not recommend it if you have alternatives. But for the case of @slink, I do not see a problem.
 
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#29
daniels27 said:
Yes, but still, they tolerate it. Of course the terms say otherwise, but their website is pretty clear that they tolerate it at least up to some extent.

Again, I personally would not recommend it if you have alternatives. But for the case of @slink, I do not see a problem.
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That’s just a random article , it is completely irrelevant.
It even says so in the footer:
This article is for Informational/Educational Purposes Only: The opinions expressed in this article may differ from the official policy or position of (or endorsement by) JPMorgan Chase & Co. or its affiliates. Opinions and strategies described may not be appropriate for everyone, and are not intended as specific advice/recommendations for any individual or business. The material is not intended to provide legal, tax, or financial advice or to indicate the availability or suitability of any JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. product or service. You should carefully consider your needs and objectives before making any decisions, and consult the appropriate professional(s). Outlooks and past performance are not guarantees of future results. JPMorgan Chase & Co. and its affiliates are not responsible for, and do not provide or endorse third party products, services or other content.
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You should read the actual agreements and terms of service.
 
#30
Honestly, it is a US bank. We have discussed it here many times. There are plenty of users here who were running millions through their personal accounts without any issues. Nobody is going to write in their terms that it is allowed. They just tolerate it and when some Nigerian prince comes, the refer to their terms and close the acount.

In any case, it is OT and I already wrote many times, that you should use a business account whenever possible. I think we all agree.
 
#31
@slink I was finally able to get a reply from IRAS. I think the way to go is:

  • Apply for GIRO with you personal Singaporean bank account. This is sufficient to fulfill the GST registration requirements.
  • Apply for Paynow Corporate using one of their providers to get the refund.
I have not yet tried those providers.
 
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#32
daniels27 said:
@slink I was finally able to get a reply from IRAS. I think the way to go is:

  • Apply for GIRO with you personal Singaporean bank account. This is sufficient to fulfill the GST registration requirements.
  • Apply for Paynow Corporate using one of their providers to get the refund.
I have not yet tried those providers.
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Hey @daniels27 thanks I really appreciate your help on this. I'm going to put the wheels in motion and set this all up today.

I'll be using my personal Singaporean bank account. As others have said, perhaps not the most ideal setup but by far the best one I've got, and as it will enable me to get over well over 100,000 SGD back each year, it definitely seems worth it to me.
 
#33
daniels27 said:
It really does not make any sense to open a business account in Singapore to get the quarterly GST refunds. And you cannot use that account for anything else as any transaction would immediately trigger a tax liability for money remitted to Singapore.
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Is this definitely the case that you won't need to pay tax on foreign income if it's not remitted to a Singapore bank account? It says this on the IRAS website:

Foreign income refers to income derived from outside Singapore. Generally, such income is taxable in Singapore when remitted to and received in Singapore. Where the foreign income arises from a trade or business carried on in Singapore, it is taxable in Singapore upon accrual, regardless of whether it is received in Singapore.
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https://www.iras.gov.sg/taxes/corpo...-companies/companies-receiving-foreign-income

I'm not sure what the definition of "trade or business carried on in Singapore" is.

Also, does receiving money into your fintech Singapore account such as Aspire or Wise not count as being remitted to Singapore?
 
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#34
slink said:
I'm not sure what the definition of "trade or business carried on in Singapore" is.
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That must be all the activity you have tied to Singapore, if I’m reading it correctly. But of course, I could be wrong.
 
#35
daniels27 said:
@slink I was finally able to get a reply from IRAS. I think the way to go is:

  • Apply for GIRO with you personal Singaporean bank account. This is sufficient to fulfill the GST registration requirements.
  • Apply for Paynow Corporate using one of their providers to get the refund.
I have not yet tried those providers.
Click to expand...

I just tried it. I'm still unable to do it as it requires a Singapore mobile number for sign-up, which you can only get in person by going to Singapore.
 
#37
daniels27 said:
@slink I was finally able to get a reply from IRAS. I think the way to go is:

  • Apply for GIRO with you personal Singaporean bank account. This is sufficient to fulfill the GST registration requirements.
  • Apply for Paynow Corporate using one of their providers to get the refund.
I have not yet tried those providers.
Click to expand...
Found another reason it does't work - when you choose your bank for GIRO on the IRAS site, it asks you to connect to your bank but automatically directs you to business account login page for your bank, which means those with personal accounts like me are unable to login.
 
#38
slink said:
Found another reason it does't work - when you choose your bank for GIRO on the IRAS site, it asks you to connect to your bank but automatically directs you to business account login page for your bank, which means those with personal accounts like me are unable to login.
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However this is via eGIRO trying to sign up automatically. I don't know if it's different signing up for GIRO if you use the paper form and do it that way. @daniels27 do you know? Also if so, how long does it usually take?
 
#39
slink said:
I just tried it. I'm still unable to do it as it requires a Singapore mobile number for sign-up, which you can only get in person by going to Singapore.
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Which one are you trying that needs a Singaporean mobile number? For Paynow Corporate, habve you tried anext.com.sg?

slink said:
However this is via eGIRO trying to sign up automatically. I don't know if it's different signing up for GIRO if you use the paper form and do it that way. @daniels27 do you know? Also if so, how long does it usually take?
Click to expand...
For GIRO, you can use a personal account. You need to download the form and mail it in. Please ensure that your bank has your signature on file, as they will validate it.

slink said:
Is this definitely the case that you won't need to pay tax on foreign income if it's not remitted to a Singapore bank account? It says this on the IRAS website:

I'm not sure what the definition of "trade or business carried on in Singapore" is.

Also, does receiving money into your fintech Singapore account such as Aspire or Wise not count as being remitted to Singapore?
Click to expand...
I am not sure on that one. I'll check and let you know if I am able to get a firm answer.

In short, I think the combination with a personal GIRO account (required for voluntary GST registration) and a Paynow Corporate (local business account) should work. An alternative would be to use GIRO in combination with a foreign business account;
https://www.iras.gov.sg/quick-links/refunds
Although there will be wire fees probably on both ends to be beared, this may be a viable solution. You basically can keep the GST refunds in your IRAS account for as long as you operate and then pay out once and the end of the companies lifetime or whenever the accumulated credits reach a certain threshold.

Do you have a US or Taiwan bank account for your company?
 
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