Youbiz and Aspire (EMIs)

[daniels27]

I can imagine that in countries like Singapore or Dubai, it doesn’t really matter. It's primarily within the EU that you can't just run company transactions through a personal account. If there's ever a tax audit, you could end up in serious trouble.

I know many in Europe that did this and never had any problems. You will run into problems if you just completely mix your transactions. I.e. if you use the same account for buying food at Costco and receiving money from your personal eBay sales as you use for your company. If you use a dedicated personal account only for company, there is no problem (unless you are from a country which specifially mandates the use of corporate accounts). And it is also no problem like in the case of @slink where you use a personal account to receive GST refunds once per quarter. IRAS allows you to use any account in any name. Generally, it is also no problem to run travel expenses through personal credit cards and then refunding them from the company account in bulk.

The problem only arises when it becomes a complete mess and unclear what transactions are for the company and which ones not.

 

[SoNewToAllShit]

With username and password
And if necessary you may have to fire your accountant if he tells you to use business accounts only.

ouhhmmm in the country I come from you get troubles doing so at least with turnover above 150K euros

 

[daniels27]

ouhhmmm in the country I come from you get troubles doing so at least with turnover above 150K euros

Where is that?

 

[EliasIT]

Where is that?

Try doing that in Denmark, they’d tattoo your ring muscle and claim you’re Sanjay Shah, even if he’s in prison and you’re a redhead running a vegetable stall in the middle of Copenhagen.

 

[aniglo22]

With username and password
And if necessary you may have to fire your accountant if he tells you to use business accounts only.


Most countries do not have any such requirement. It is perfectly fine to use personal accounts for business purposes.

Of course in an ideal world, you would use business accounts for that. But there are many valid reasons why people use personal accounts. Getting a GST refund from Singapore is a very valid reason for that. You can just get the money there and then either transfer it back to a company account elsewhere or use it as part of a director's fee / dividend payment.

It really does not make any sense to open a business account in Singapore to get the quarterly GST refunds. And you cannot use that account for anything else as any transaction would immediately trigger a tax liability for money remitted to Singapore.

Yeah, but you're violating the Terms of Service, as most banks prohibit the use of personal accounts for business purposes.

 

[daniels27]

Yeah, but you're violating the Terms of Service, as most banks prohibit the use of personal accounts for business purposes.

It higly depends on the jurisdiction. In many jurisdictions self-employed have no other choice than using a personal account. Hence, the banks know that and accept such use. And even for proper companies, banks in places like the US etc. generally accept such use. See Chase:

Can I use a personal account for my business?
While it’s possible to use a personal account for your business, it’s not recommended. A separate business account helps you keep personal and business finances separate, which is important for legal, tax and professional reasons.

For example Amazon and PayPal both allow payouts to either an account in the name of the business or in the owner/director. Generally, the banks won't be able to tell whether the money comes from a LLC or from self-employment.

Then, there are places like many in the EU where banks offer special self-employment packages as the personal account are not really meant for this. Hong Kong would be another example where self-employed can use personal accounts, but only up to a quite limited extent, i.e. receiving sales commissions in the magnitude of a normal high salary probably will work, while doing goods trading in the millions will most likely lead to account closure.

In Germany, you can use a personal account for any transparent entity, including the prevalent KG:

Solange Sie nicht als Kapitalgesellschaft agieren, können Sie Ihr Privatkonto auch als Geschäftskonto nutzen. In manchen (seltenen) Fällen gibt es jedoch Ärger mit den Banken, wenn diese bemerken, dass über das Privatkonto geschäftliche Transaktionen abgewickelt werden.

(In English: You can use personal account for transparent entities. For intransparent entities (Kapitalgesellschaften), a business account is needed.)

I personally would recommend using a business account whenever possible. If you have some Singapore Pty Ltd and need to get back GST from IRAS, I guess if they offer the choice of any account on the GIRO application, it is legit in that case.

 

[aniglo22]

It higly depends on the jurisdiction. In many jurisdictions self-employed have no other choice than using a personal account. Hence, the banks know that and accept such use. And even for proper companies, banks in places like the US etc. generally accept such use. See Chase:



For example Amazon and PayPal both allow payouts to either an account in the name of the business or in the owner/director. Generally, the banks won't be able to tell whether the money comes from a LLC or from self-employment.

Then, there are places like many in the EU where banks offer special self-employment packages as the personal account are not really meant for this. Hong Kong would be another example where self-employed can use personal accounts, but only up to a quite limited extent, i.e. receiving sales commissions in the magnitude of a normal high salary probably will work, while doing goods trading in the millions will most likely lead to account closure.

In Germany, you can use a personal account for any transparent entity, including the prevalent KG:

(In English: You can use personal account for transparent entities. For intransparent entities (Kapitalgesellschaften), a business account is needed.)

I personally would recommend using a business account whenever possible. If you have some Singapore Pty Ltd and need to get back GST from IRAS, I guess if they offer the choice of any account on the GIRO application, it is legit in that case.

Where did I mention the legal aspect ?
I'm talking about the terms of service (or in german : AGB )
Even chase doesn't allow the business use of personal accounts (https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chase-ux/documents/personal/checking/deposit-account-agreement.pdf) :

A. Personal Accounts
If your account is a type listed under “Personal Accounts” in our product information, you agree not to use it for business purposes. Ownership of your account is determined by the most current signature card. However, we are authorized to rely on the account ownership information contained in our deposit system unless we are notified that the most current signature card and the deposit system contain different information.

 

[daniels27]

I'm talking about the terms of service (or in german : AGB )
Even chase doesn't allow the business use of personal accounts (https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chase-ux/documents/personal/checking/deposit-account-agreement.pdf) :

Yes, but still, they tolerate it. Of course the terms say otherwise, but their website is pretty clear that they tolerate it at least up to some extent.

Again, I personally would not recommend it if you have alternatives. But for the case of @slink, I do not see a problem.

 

[aniglo22]

Yes, but still, they tolerate it. Of course the terms say otherwise, but their website is pretty clear that they tolerate it at least up to some extent.

Again, I personally would not recommend it if you have alternatives. But for the case of @slink, I do not see a problem.

That’s just a random article , it is completely irrelevant.
It even says so in the footer:

This article is for Informational/Educational Purposes Only: The opinions expressed in this article may differ from the official policy or position of (or endorsement by) JPMorgan Chase & Co. or its affiliates. Opinions and strategies described may not be appropriate for everyone, and are not intended as specific advice/recommendations for any individual or business. The material is not intended to provide legal, tax, or financial advice or to indicate the availability or suitability of any JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. product or service. You should carefully consider your needs and objectives before making any decisions, and consult the appropriate professional(s). Outlooks and past performance are not guarantees of future results. JPMorgan Chase & Co. and its affiliates are not responsible for, and do not provide or endorse third party products, services or other content.

You should read the actual agreements and terms of service.

 

[daniels27]

Honestly, it is a US bank. We have discussed it here many times. There are plenty of users here who were running millions through their personal accounts without any issues. Nobody is going to write in their terms that it is allowed. They just tolerate it and when some Nigerian prince comes, the refer to their terms and close the acount.

In any case, it is OT and I already wrote many times, that you should use a business account whenever possible. I think we all agree.

 

[daniels27]

@slink I was finally able to get a reply from IRAS. I think the way to go is:

• Apply for GIRO with you personal Singaporean bank account. This is sufficient to fulfill the GST registration requirements.
• Apply for Paynow Corporate using one of their providers to get the refund.

I have not yet tried those providers.