about estonian e-residency

[JohnLocke]

@dotbloup - Thank you very much for your sharing of information about this topic, very helpful

 

[RamsayB]

you are interested in E-residency Read this

I am now in Tallinn. I had some times and i told myself to end up the process. First of all, i have noticed all flights to Tallinn were expensive. The airport is small and attracts few people. All the Hotels are over-priced. The hotel that aren't over-priced are dodgy.

First of all, i spotted the place. I went to the addresses that i spotted on Google street. I have found that one attorney address could not be found. I could not find any access to the virtual office that i have chosen online.

Prior to that i transferred 2500 euros via SEPA to the bank krediidipank.ee. (big mistake) which is the minimum share capital. I went to the major Branch of Tallinn, it was very small. There were only 2 cashiers. First, they could not find my transfer. I expected such a thing because it was a transfer made just after incorporation from the company registration portal & there were no reference number for the share capital. They asked me to add the name of the company as description but the Estonian "chamber of commerce" refused the name afterwards and i had to change the name.

So, i went to the bank, and they could no find the company by name. They required the reference number. It was stupid because every business name is unique. so, i left i went to my hotel and came back. The person at the cashier came with 4 or 5 pages of form. I had to enter my name, my birthdate, my address 3 or 4 times. In other words, the E-residency process is useless since you have to give everything back. I thought they were civilized and had a card reader. Then, at some point i could not get further because my fiscal number from my country was missing. I suggested that i fill up the form until the end. The stupid person in front of me refused and took away the form saying that i could come back the day after. I already paid the equivalent of 2 times and half of average monthly Estonian income and i was not welcomed well.

Also, she told me he takes 5 days to open a bank account.

Business in Tallinn is no thank you for me. Lots of very arrogant people, not responsive at all. You can't rely on anyone. In East Europe, Romania & Bulgaria are better than that.

And now go back to regular Offshore destinations and forget Estonian residency because it is too bad.

My conclusion is the following:

Human beings working as agents can be also sluggish but they are better. We didn't reach a level where we can get rid of them.

I consider myself lucky. I think about Australian, American or Canadian people who could fly along from their place to find themselves in this type of situation. In my case, i have a direct flight from my country.

Wow, that is really a well detailed explanation coming from a member here. I'm really sure this will help the OP and other people here as well. Its well written and Kudos to you sir!

 

[porkbunny]

You like much of what you read here RamsayB! I would like to learn more about the e-residency in Estonia since it seems to be a very very good alternative to most other offshore jurisdiction. The only thing I find a little strange is the EUR 2500 you have to pay to get started. What exactly is this money for do you know that OP?

 

[dotbloup]

I would like to end up my story... I decided to go as far as i could just to have no regrets because i will never come back to Estonia.

I went to Swedbank, the so called best bank in Estonia. It was said on their website that it takes 30 minutes to open a bank account. I told them i wanted to open a bank account at Swedbank. To my surprise i had to give once again my passport and there were puzzled about it. They didn't know which information to take from it. I understood all of that was not serious. I guess people before me took a local nominee or director to make it work because it looked like they never SAW a foreigner. In fact, they really didn't know which numbers to take. They took my french id, then my passport...

By the way the E-residency card was useless, it was not integrated. They had no e-residency card readers. I had to start from scratch. On the other hand, if i remember well, even when you have to open a bank account in another country, they usually send you electronic form or they tell you what will happen.

Then came the big problem. I told them that i wanted them to help me to transfer the money i have already transferred to Krediidi pank. They told me i had to go to Krediidi pank and ask them to open a bank account to transfer money.

They told me: "that's ok no worries, in Estonia no problem". I told them "no there is a problem bye bye"


For your information, it is not only the banks the problem. People don't want to admit they don't understand english well and they never ask you to repeat. it is a major problem for business. Also, i feel lucky because if at some point, if you have a real big problem, Estonia can turn into an nightmare as you would need a local native Estonian speaking person. I have seen that attorneys here can ask $1200 to do a small research. I don't know about notary.

By writing this thread i hope i will prevent someone to spend money in flight tickets for nothing.

Personal feeling: Estonia reminds me of soviet union where people told you that everything was fine but meanwhile people were deported, there were no food in grocery shops, there were lots of corruption.

When 2500 euros is blocked on an account, when you have no receipt, no proof that is it actually there and when people tell you that everything is fine... That's smell like a big scam for me.

So now, in order to get the money, i will have to terminate the company and then to appoint myself as a liquidator.
This forces all assets to be owed to me and i will get the money back in 4 months (Estonian law).

I do think that people who create company & bank accounts in Belize, BVI, Hong Kong have less problems than that. Am i right?

 

[dotbloup]

You like much of what you read here RamsayB! I would like to learn more about the e-residency in Estonia since it seems to be a very very good alternative to most other offshore jurisdiction. The only thing I find a little strange is the EUR 2500 you have to pay to get started. What exactly is this money for do you know that OP?

You have to transfer 2500 euros as share capital, then, when you open a bank account in Estonia, this money will be on your account and you can use it for your daily business expenses.

 

[webdriller]

Okay so the 2500 can be used later on. I just need to understand, if this is e-residency does it mean you don't have to pay personal income tax in your home country or what are the tax benefits here. Can we make use of double tax treaties between my country and Estonia for instant?

 

[dotbloup]

Okay so the 2500 can be used later on. I just need to understand, if this is e-residency does it mean you don't have to pay personal income tax in your home country or what are the tax benefits here. Can we make use of double tax treaties between my country and Estonia for instant?

Imagine an Estonian company earns 100,000 euros
You get 80,000 euros because you have to pay 20,000 euros in corporate tax (20%)
You transfer the money to your bank account in the US or in France or in the UK. Then you have to pay income tax.
Tax treaty means also exchange of data. If a tax treaty is in place between your country and Estonia, then, you can't hide your money because the tax treaty is a data exchange treat between tax authorities too. In the USA, France, UK, you will have to pay income tax on your 80,000 euros and you can't and you should NOT fool your local tax authorities because they can check what you earned remotely from the Estonian Tax Authority.

The only way to pay no income tax would be to move to Costa Rica or Malta and get your money from abroad. You can also move to a country where there is what we call a flat rate, meaning that the percentage of income tax is static. For instance, in Bulgaria, it is 10%

 

[dotbloup]

I continue the story.

I have to liquidate the company. I have appointed a liquidator to get back my 2500 euros. It cost me 240 euros. I expected such a thing.

The Estonian government mentioned it takes 6 months for a company dissolution. So, i guess it will take 6 months to get back my share capital.

I am so glad, i don't have more money frozen on an Estonian bank account. Because those 2500 euros are frozen right now. I can't transfer them from the Estonian krediidi pank since they refused to open a bank account for me.

People, let me be clear, that could be way worst. I could have my assets, my bank account seized by the government just like in Venezuela. it is better to stop everything rather than losing more money, more time.

Lesson learned: Doing business in the EU, does not mean that every single country are the same. Every single EU country has different rules.


People who read this, should read my contribution in the whole thread first to understand it.

 

[alpagen]

I continue the story.

I have to liquidate the company. I have appointed a liquidator to get back my 2500 euros. It cost me 240 euros. I expected such a thing.

The Estonian government mentioned it takes 6 months for a company dissolution. So, i guess it will take 6 months to get back my share capital.

I am so glad, i don't have more money frozen on an Estonian bank account. Because those 2500 euros are frozen right now. I can't transfer them from the Estonian krediidi pank since they refused to open a bank account for me.

People, let me be clear, that could be way worst. I could have my assets, my bank account seized by the government just like in Venezuela. it is better to stop everything rather than losing more money, more time.

Lesson learned: Doing business in the EU, does not mean that every single country are the same. Every single EU country has different rules.


People who read this, should read my contribution in the whole thread first to understand it.

What would you recommend instead of Estonia for Europens ? Cyprus, Lativa ?

 

[dotbloup]

What would you recommend instead of Estonia for Europens ? Cyprus, Lativa ?

That's a very good question, if we take into account that:
Estonia corporate tax: 20%
Latvia corporate tax: 15%
Cyprus is 12,5%

But if you incorporate a business somewhere and if you can't open a bank account. It is kind of useless. I think it is in Cyprus where it is the easiest to open a bank account. Now, i suggest to open a bank in the same country where you have your company because thanks to that you have rebates.

More importantly, i know the Cyprus banks, and with them, it is really clear what you have to do to open a bank account in cyprus. They direct you. They exactly tell you what they want. None of the Cyprus are overpriced. Today Cyprus is very interesting.

Then, you have to be cautious with accountants who may ask you a lot of money.

 

[JohnLocke]

Thanks for your very detailed description of your journey to establish an e-residency in Estonia. It seems not to be easy to get it done even though it sounded like that in the beginning of your thread. I'm glad I didn't jumped into it yet. I was close to do just to try it out.

Anyway, I hope you get your money back and find some different jurisdiction to establish your business. Estonia has still a high corruption rate and they make it very expensive and complicated to sue anyone there locally. I know the lawyer's are using this country so most of the Baltic countries as an silver plate to just take the money they want when a foreign business gets in troubles.

 

[zohoman]

But if you incorporate a business somewhere and if you can't open a bank account. It is kind of useless. I think it is in Cyprus where it is the easiest to open a bank account. Now, i suggest to open a bank in the same country where you have your company because thanks to that you have rebates.

That's not a good idea according to all the read around. I understand you gave up on the idea of Estonian e-residency right?

 

[dotbloup]

That's not a good idea according to all the read around. I understand you gave up on the idea of Estonian e-residency right?

I have paid an attorney to dissolve the company. Now, it will take between 6 to 8 months to get back the 2500 euros share capital.
That's actually the time to get back the money according to the Estonian gov. law.

About opening the bank in the same country... Sure, the local gov. can seize your money if they want.
Offshore banks are always the best. (Baltikums & Breder Suasso).

 

[zohoman]

So what you are doing now?

 

[negon]

I have paid an attorney to dissolve the company. Now, it will take between 6 to 8 months to get back the 2500 euros share capital.
That's actually the time to get back the money according to the Estonian gov. law.

About opening the bank in the same country... Sure, the local gov. can seize your money if they want.
Offshore banks are always the best. (Baltikums & Breder Suasso).

You have been through lots of troubles to get this setup it seems and now you have to pay someone to dissolve the setup again. Hope you will find something you can use.

 

[dotbloup]

You have been through lots of troubles to get this setup it seems and now you have to pay someone to dissolve the setup again. Hope you will find something you can use.

Incorporating an offshore company is a bumpy ride. It looks easy on the Internet but it is not easy at all. Nevertheless, i would like to tell you something.

I am french, and here the number of administration tasks and taxes are just crazy. here also, the corporate tax is 30% + 3% contribution tax + other government fees + income tax

If i incorporate a company in France from my online business with me as only shareholder/director and pay myself by dividends, i would pay 65% total tax from turnover to my private account.

So, my problem incorporating a business is really nothing compared to the taxes and all the administration i would have in france

 

[negon]

65% that's a lot of TAX to be paid considering to be a small business that may not have huge expenses. How the hell is anyone able to make a living there if you have to pay so much TAX on your profits? is there anything you can do in France to reduce the corporate tax or is it just a numbers game, the higher the profit the better your wealth level?

 

[zohoman]

@dotbloup I do hope for you that you find something that will work for you.

 

[dotbloup]

I would like to mention, i have made a mistake: in Estonia corporate tax is 0% and then that's the distributed income to nonresidents that is taxed at 20%. It is like a dividend withholding tax at 20%
On the other hand, here, people can incorporate a Cyprus company with 12,5% corporate tax and no Withholding tax. And at the same time, they can open a Cyprus bank account remotely.

Meanwhile, and whatever they tell you online, it is not possible to open a bank account remotely in Estonia. Flying there cost lots of money.

 

[redeye]

You real made your homework OP great read took me a while to get through this thread. Thanks for your useful information at all times.