Question Banking and trading improvement - 6 figures

[gansu]

I'm a EU citizen looking to solidify my financial setup to have better security and service for my lower 6 figure assets, on a budget. I currently pay low to no fees and while I don't mind to pay a bit fore quality, I don't see myself suddenly paying large amounts.
I would appreciate some feedback regarding my strategy/analysis.
I don't really have cash, most of my assets are securities, with some cryptocurrencies.
I plan to move the securities to a company, instead of holding them directly and a US LLC in NM/WY looks like a good fit for me.

Current setup:
I currently have bank and brokerage accounts in the country of my citizenship.
I tried many different providers and have stable ones that are alright, but service and brokerage wise I'm not that satisfied and I would feel better to decrease the possibility that my accounts can be frozen/seized.
I'm satisfied with the Fintechs I use for foreign currency, fast transfers and day to day card transactions.

New setup, broker:
Trade Station, a US based broker, self clearing, good service, no fees (as in no trading, custody fees, decent price improvement, decent app etc).
They also have LLC accounts.
They only offer US securities however.

For other securities I'm not sure what to use. To find a broker that is robust, has low fees and supports LLCs seems to be pretty much impossible.
Scalable Capital with Baader Bank seems alright cost/stability wise.
Degiro seems alright as well cost/stability wise.
Saxo does support LLCs, looks robust, has a proper banking license, but looks quite expensive not only for trades, but also for maintenance/custody fees.
Interactive Brokers is a no go for me.

New setup banking:
BGL BNP Paribas in Luxemburg, robust, decent service apparently, low fees for banking, high fees for trading.
BCEE/Spuerkess, looks "more" robust with the Luxemburg being the owner, but they haven't responded to my account opening request so far.

Future setup banking:
Once I have more assets, or once I shift more into ETFs for long term holding, I would like to add another jurisdiction to my setup.
I struggle a bit in finding a cost effective way that doesn't require me to either have a large amount of cash just sitting in a checking account being eaten by inflation or paying high trading/admin fees for the brokerage account of banks.
Ideally I would like to keep a broker for good, cheap more active trading and to keep the more stable assets with my banks, to fulfill their balance requirements and to improve my credit rating with them.

The Channel Islands, SEPA connected, robust, no tainted image.
I found:
Barclays International, 25k minimum deposit, low fees, looks to have great interface
HSBC Expat, 50k minimum deposit (can't be with their only execution brokerage account), don't like their money laundering scandals, otherwise their features, especially internationally, to get accounts in other countries look good.

Liechtenstein, SEPA connected, robust, but expensive.
And while some banks there would take me based on conversations, not sure it's so economical and makes sense after all.

Singapore, robust and good addition to the European accounts I think.
DBS looks super nice to me, robust, great service, but I guess I'm too poor at the moment.
Citi IPB looks nice, with their international reach, the ability to get local accounts in other countries, I think I'm too poor or would have to move too much to them.

Thoughts?

 

[troubled soul]

I'm a EU citizen looking to solidify my financial setup to have better security and service for my lower 6 figure assets, on a budget. I currently pay low to no fees and while I don't mind to pay a bit fore quality, I don't see myself suddenly paying large amounts.
I would appreciate some feedback regarding my strategy/analysis.
I don't really have cash, most of my assets are securities, with some cryptocurrencies.
I plan to move the securities to a company, instead of holding them directly and a US LLC in NM/WY looks like a good fit for me.

Current setup:
I currently have bank and brokerage accounts in the country of my citizenship.
I tried many different providers and have stable ones that are alright, but service and brokerage wise I'm not that satisfied and I would feel better to decrease the possibility that my accounts can be frozen/seized.
I'm satisfied with the Fintechs I use for foreign currency, fast transfers and day to day card transactions.

New setup, broker:
Trade Station, a US based broker, self clearing, good service, no fees (as in no trading, custody fees, decent price improvement, decent app etc).
They also have LLC accounts.
They only offer US securities however.

For other securities I'm not sure what to use. To find a broker that is robust, has low fees and supports LLCs seems to be pretty much impossible.
Scalable Capital with Baader Bank seems alright cost/stability wise.
Degiro seems alright as well cost/stability wise.
Saxo does support LLCs, looks robust, has a proper banking license, but looks quite expensive not only for trades, but also for maintenance/custody fees.
Interactive Brokers is a no go for me.

New setup banking:
BGL BNP Paribas in Luxemburg, robust, decent service apparently, low fees for banking, high fees for trading.
BCEE/Spuerkess, looks "more" robust with the Luxemburg being the owner, but they haven't responded to my account opening request so far.

Future setup banking:
Once I have more assets, or once I shift more into ETFs for long term holding, I would like to add another jurisdiction to my setup.
I struggle a bit in finding a cost effective way that doesn't require me to either have a large amount of cash just sitting in a checking account being eaten by inflation or paying high trading/admin fees for the brokerage account of banks.
Ideally I would like to keep a broker for good, cheap more active trading and to keep the more stable assets with my banks, to fulfill their balance requirements and to improve my credit rating with them.

The Channel Islands, SEPA connected, robust, no tainted image.
I found:
Barclays International, 25k minimum deposit, low fees, looks to have great interface
HSBC Expat, 50k minimum deposit (can't be with their only execution brokerage account), don't like their money laundering scandals, otherwise their features, especially internationally, to get accounts in other countries look good.

Liechtenstein, SEPA connected, robust, but expensive.
And while some banks there would take me based on conversations, not sure it's so economical and makes sense after all.

Singapore, robust and good addition to the European accounts I think.
DBS looks super nice to me, robust, great service, but I guess I'm too poor at the moment.
Citi IPB looks nice, with their international reach, the ability to get local accounts in other countries, I think I'm too poor or would have to move too much to them.

Thoughts?

following

 

[rowena]

Citi IPB is expensive, not worth it for investing purposes. HSBC is very safe. It doesn't matter scandals and other things. They're big: List of systemically important banks - Wikipedia

BCEE/Spuerkeess is the strongest and the safest option in your list but I don't think they will accept your application. They're a national bank and they only interested in customers who have links with Lux.

Degiro, Trade Station and Scalable Capital are very small brokers, risky.

I think IB, Saxo, Swissqoute CH/LU are your best options.

 

[gansu]

I am considering HSBC, especially as they have good global reach and I like to be a bit nomadic.

BCEE has to open an account for me according to the EU directive for basic accounts, but they haven't been easy to deal with in that regard and finally after regulator and complaint to CEO asked me to come to Luxemburg. Might try one more time with Covid maybe different these days, else onsite in the future or by bringing some more cash to them for their private banking offer, I think they asked for 50k.

BGL BNP used to apart from being also required to open a basic account only accept customers with links to LU, but now they accept EU and even US etc customers.

IB's CEO has openly made statements that amount to market manipulation and hostile towards retail investors, can't use them, thought they were perfect before that.

Will take another look at Saxo and re-check their prices and also check Swissquote.
Thank you!

 

[rowena]

BCEE has to open an account for me according to the EU directive for basic accounts, but they haven't been easy to deal with in that regard and finally after regulator and complaint to CEO asked me to come to Luxemburg. Might try one more time with Covid maybe different these days, else onsite in the future or by bringing some more cash to them for their private banking offer, I think they asked for 50k.

I asked about private banking possibilities last year via e-mail and they responded that they only open accounts to people who have links with Lux. I don't know the latest policy but if you have a possibility to open an account then you should go for it. They're the best bank in Lux and one of the best banks in the EU, especially for safety.

 

[PhantomOf ThePits]

I am considering HSBC, especially as they have good global reach and I like to be a bit nomadic.

BCEE has to open an account for me according to the EU directive for basic accounts, but they haven't been easy to deal with in that regard and finally after regulator and complaint to CEO asked me to come to Luxemburg. Might try one more time with Covid maybe different these days, else onsite in the future or by bringing some more cash to them for their private banking offer, I think they asked for 50k.

BGL BNP used to apart from being also required to open a basic account only accept customers with links to LU, but now they accept EU and even US etc customers.

IB's CEO has openly made statements that amount to market manipulation and hostile towards retail investors, can't use them, thought they were perfect before that.

Will take another look at Saxo and re-check their prices and also check Swissquote.
Thank you!

Hi Gansu,

I dont know which underlyings you trade and if you trade also automated.

Swissquote API is not that good.
Saxo 'kinda ok'

IB has for now most stable API.

It seems for you ethics play an important role as you wrote regarding HSBC ' don't like their money laundering scandals' or for IB ' IB's CEO has openly made statements that amount to market manipulation and hostile towards retail investors.

Keep in mind however, even if the other banks do not have any public issues like the ones you mentioned above, I wouldnt bet a lot of money that they wont in the future.

If your goal is to trade and increase your six figure stack, I'd focus more on the brokers which offer the underlyings you'd like to trade with best fees.

I wouldnt worry too much about default risk for now if you go for the bigger ones like IB, SAXO, Swissquote.

Maybe open accounts with different brokers and try out what you like/dont like and then scale.

 

[gansu]

I asked about private banking possibilities last year via e-mail and they responded that they only open accounts to people who have links with Lux. I don't know the latest policy but if you have a possibility to open an account then you should go for it. They're the best bank in Lux and one of the best banks in the EU, especially for safety.

I had contacted BGL BNP, BIL and BCEE in the past and BGL BNP mentioned bringing in 50k would waive the tie requirement, BIL was the same if I remember correctly and BCEE had an option as well. Maybe they just don't like your residency/nationality. Try again? Surprised they even rejected private banking. Should you have EU residency force them to comply or use BGL BNP instead if they are an option for you.

PhantomOf ThePits:
Only equities for now, manually, no need for API access, just good web interface and mobile app that is not crapping out on me when there's high market activity, like some cheap neo broker that is run by amateurs.

Compliance is not so easy for companies I get that, I know a bit, also seeing this forum here...
If I can avoid using/giving money to pricks I prefer that, Deutsche Bank and HSBC for example just look like blatant pricks to me, doesn't mean I won't open accounts there, just rather not let them make money with me.

I'm not so much worried about defaults, as to geographically better position my assets and get reliable platform and good customer service when needed.
IB would be perfect pricing, stability wise, but the CEO has literally said he will protect the market by restricting trading some time ago for GameStop, that's no better than the other brokers that actually did it.
I don't have energy to potentially sue my broker for such s**t.

I checked Saxo and Swissquote LU/CH and they look nice, just expensive. I get that free/low cost trading is not free, payment for order flow, s**t execution etc...
Will go with Trade Station for now, they look pretty good and maybe diversify from my remaining 2 EU brokers in the future once I'm comfortable to pay more. It's great to have choice.

 

[rowena]

I had contacted BGL BNP, BIL and BCEE in the past and BGL BNP mentioned bringing in 50k would waive the tie requirement, BIL was the same if I remember correctly and BCEE had an option as well. Maybe they just don't like your residency/nationality. Try again?

I'm not an EU person I didn't share my nationality with BCEE and BGL BNP, I only shared my residency which is UAE. Since you're an EU national, it should make things very easier. BIL was positive to open a private banking account and the minimum balance requirement was 500K EUR for non-EU person.

 

[BlueMist]

I checked Saxo and Swissquote LU/CH and they look nice, just expensive.

I wouldn’t put Saxo and SQ into one basket. Saxo will charge % of custody fees and it is not the same for all countries. They have different custody fees if your residence is e.g UAE and different (higher) if you are in Europe. SQ has the same fixed monthly fee (SQ LU) regardless of the residence country. I would not call SQ expensive. The moment you keep there more than €200k invested it’s one of the best value options both stability wise and price wise. If you have €5M invested you still pay maximum €180 per year.

 

[jjrapy]

I asked about private banking possibilities last year via e-mail and they responded that they only open accounts to people who have links with Lux. I don't know the latest policy but if you have a possibility to open an account then you should go for it. They're the best bank in Lux and one of the best banks in the EU, especially for safety.

just like you said. I contacted them and they reply the same.

 

[jjrapy]

I had contacted BGL BNP, BIL and BCEE in the past and BGL BNP mentioned bringing in 50k would waive the tie requirement, BIL was the same if I remember correctly and BCEE had an option as well. Maybe they just don't like your residency/nationality. Try again? Surprised they even rejected private banking. Should you have EU residency force them to comply or use BGL BNP instead if they are an option for you.

PhantomOf ThePits:
Only equities for now, manually, no need for API access, just good web interface and mobile app that is not crapping out on me when there's high market activity, like some cheap neo broker that is run by amateurs.

Compliance is not so easy for companies I get that, I know a bit, also seeing this forum here...
If I can avoid using/giving money to pricks I prefer that, Deutsche Bank and HSBC for example just look like blatant pricks to me, doesn't mean I won't open accounts there, just rather not let them make money with me.

I'm not so much worried about defaults, as to geographically better position my assets and get reliable platform and good customer service when needed.
IB would be perfect pricing, stability wise, but the CEO has literally said he will protect the market by restricting trading some time ago for GameStop, that's no better than the other brokers that actually did it.
I don't have energy to potentially sue my broker for such s**t.

I checked Saxo and Swissquote LU/CH and they look nice, just expensive. I get that free/low cost trading is not free, payment for order flow, s**t execution etc...
Will go with Trade Station for now, they look pretty good and maybe diversify from my remaining 2 EU brokers in the future once I'm comfortable to pay more. It's great to have choice.

Which retail broker didn’t restrict GameStop trading at that time? Just curious.

 

[troubled soul]

Do you try Individuals | Banque Internationale à Luxembourg

May be this bank allowed remote opening ,
Do try this and Do share your experience here.

Thanks

 

[gansu]

Which retail broker didn’t restrict GameStop trading at that time? Just curious.

Not to turn this too much away into a different topic, but actually I was wrong, IB did restrict, here's the CEO himself confessing:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1354887834252017669

Every broker with Apex as clearing provider as well.

Not restricted:
In the US:
Vanguard
Fidelity

In EU:
Degiro
Lots of expensive, regular banks.

//

Spuerkeess/BCEE indeed says no in general.

BGL BNP says no, unless salary is received there, which right now I can't provide.
Regular incoming payments, also from accounts not under my name sure, but not traditional salary.
Else they refer to come to the branch.
Alternative is if I bring 50k to them for the investment offer, but their brokerage would cost 380 EUR at the very least per year.

BIL said no when I contacted them earlier as well, ties to Luxemburg required or private banking.

Of all of them BGL seems to be the friendliest less stressful one and I do understand they want to be able to ensure my funds are clean and the easiest is through salary payments, even though I have all the necessary documents that should satisfy them

Seems sadly as if I want to get quality banking on a budget in a place that takes service and stability seriously as well as having a tiny bit more privacy, I would either have to come onsite and force them to open a basic account for me or get an option to receive regular, traditional salary payments again.

Maybe using EMIs/fintechs outside my home country is the best choice for now. Would mostly only be 4 digit amounts and higher ones would flow through temporarily.
Just feels better if it's an established bank and would be nice to get a credit card as as backup.
Might try Yuh, Swiss app bank account from Swissquote/Postfinance, it's free for SEPA transfers and both of them look like good companies.

 

[gansu]

Kind of would've been good to try the basic account earlier, when Covid was still a bit more intense.
If they don't open the branch, they would have to allow remote openings I believe to stay compliant and not anger the regulator when someone complains.

 

[PhantomOf ThePits]

Not to turn this too much away into a different topic, but actually I was wrong, IB did restrict, here's the CEO himself confessing:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1354887834252017669

Every broker with Apex as clearing provider as well.

Not restricted:
In the US:
Vanguard
Fidelity

In EU:
Degiro
Lots of expensive, regular banks.

//

Spuerkeess/BCEE indeed says no in general.

BGL BNP says no, unless salary is received there, which right now I can't provide.
Regular incoming payments, also from accounts not under my name sure, but not traditional salary.
Else they refer to come to the branch.
Alternative is if I bring 50k to them for the investment offer, but their brokerage would cost 380 EUR at the very least per year.

BIL said no when I contacted them earlier as well, ties to Luxemburg required or private banking.

Of all of them BGL seems to be the friendliest less stressful one and I do understand they want to be able to ensure my funds are clean and the easiest is through salary payments, even though I have all the necessary documents that should satisfy them

Seems sadly as if I want to get quality banking on a budget in a place that takes service and stability seriously as well as having a tiny bit more privacy, I would either have to come onsite and force them to open a basic account for me or get an option to receive regular, traditional salary payments again.

Maybe using EMIs/fintechs outside my home country is the best choice for now. Would mostly only be 4 digit amounts and higher ones would flow through temporarily.
Just feels better if it's an established bank and would be nice to get a credit card as as backup.
Might try Yuh, Swiss app bank account from Swissquote/Postfinance, it's free for SEPA transfers and both of them look like good companies.

Hi Gansu,

just shortly and not to go too far away from the topic:

What you are trying with a bank account outside your home country I think wont help too much in most places.
If they are banks they will ask for your TIN (Tax ident number) depending on where you live or other documents.

Some EMIs for now also transfer info to your home country.

What I heard is that the US wont for now participate in CRS (Common Reporting Standard) and SOME brokers, if you are a EU citizen, may not ask for me details.

If you are IB Client in Europe they for sure will ask for your TIN Number.

I dont know what your goal is, but nowadays trying to 'hide it' with a normal bank account in your name in most countries wont work imho...

 

[gansu]

Thanks PhantomOfThePits!

I'm aware of CRS and FATCA and the reporting that comes along with that.
I don't intend to hide funds, it mostly just feels better having them in countries that are more robust and that are known for being mindful of their financial industry and not so prone to the government thinking about all kinds of new dangerous ideas.
And seizing assets it's also just too easy right now.

I'm just trying to take baby steps to improve my overall posture, it will take a while.