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ilpablo

Active Member
I am Italian and into tech startups. He said he's into that too, so I'll give him a good advice: FORGET ITALY. Read this as do not ever put your money here.
Anything is behind the curve, from VC/advisor/government/consumers. Forget it.
You name it, justice, laws, taxes, startup costs, everything is fucked beyond repair.
Anything gov touches goes to s**t. There's no way to improve.
Extreme left wing country. Constitution was written just after nazi-fascism, by the opposite, the communists... so it's like utopia: everyone should have a job, healthcare should be free, etc, but it doesn't say who's gonna pay for it... all it's made on debt, some one will pay for it.
I tell you who pays: entrepreneurs and small business owners.
But these found it, so many evaded/continue to evade... it's a catch22.
That's why taxes and startup costs are huge.

Italy is for the extremely poor (they get literally everything for free), or extremely rich. Anything in between it'll be a PITA.

Go to Miami and don't look back, even if it seems more expensive short-term. You would struggle as a tech entrepreneur in Italy.
VCs and advisors don't know s**t nor they have the business experience, they just mock some trendy english words in between and that's enough here... you get funded by political sympathy smi(&%
Everyone I knew left and made it elsewhere. The one who couldn't leave, are struggling and cannot grow.
Now I'm curious are you still in our poor country fighting with all this s**t, or you moved somewhere else? If so, may i ask you your setup? And if you want disclose it, what your startup business is about?
 

FixieHartmann

Active Member
I am Italian and into tech startups. He said he's into that too, so I'll give him a good advice: FORGET ITALY. Read this as do not ever put your money here.
Anything is behind the curve, from VC/advisor/government/consumers. Forget it.
You name it, justice, laws, taxes, startup costs, everything is fucked beyond repair.
Anything gov touches goes to s**t. There's no way to improve.
Extreme left wing country. Constitution was written just after nazi-fascism, by the opposite, the communists... so it's like utopia: everyone should have a job, healthcare should be free, etc, but it doesn't say who's gonna pay for it... all it's made on debt, some one will pay for it.
I tell you who pays: entrepreneurs and small business owners.
But these found it, so many evaded/continue to evade... it's a catch22.
That's why taxes and startup costs are huge.

Italy is for the extremely poor (they get literally everything for free), or extremely rich. Anything in between it'll be a PITA.

Go to Miami and don't look back, even if it seems more expensive short-term. You would struggle as a tech entrepreneur in Italy.
VCs and advisors don't know s**t nor they have the business experience, they just mock some trendy english words in between and that's enough here... you get funded by political sympathy smi(&%
Everyone I knew left and made it elsewhere. The one who couldn't leave, are struggling and cannot grow.
Interesting! This basically describes all the prejudices that I have against entrepreneurship in Italy :D It coming from someone who seems quite familiar with the system makes me quite wary.
 

iarmst

New member
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write this reply. I think it summarizes my situation and the tradeoffs very well.

I’ve been to Switzerland and while the quality of life is very high, the climate definitely is the biggest downside. I’ve also been to Portugal, so next I’ll spend some extended time in KL and then decide.

However, given everything that has been posted here, I think I’d still tend to compromise on taxation and not climate and go with Florida, if I can get a visa. But, let’s see where life will lead me to.
Visas in the USA nowadays are non-existent. You'll be lucky to get one. I'd personally rule out the USA and go for Georgia/Bulgaria as your base. Bulgaria has no minimum stay requirements if you show it's your main 'home'. Use it as your base for however long you want and then travel around. Spend some time in USA/KL/Bangkok and still be able to show the authorities, if any ask, that you're paying 10% to an EU country.
 

stevy777

Active Member
Visas in the USA nowadays are non-existent. You'll be lucky to get one. I'd personally rule out the USA and go for Georgia/Bulgaria as your base. Bulgaria has no minimum stay requirements if you show it's your main 'home'. Use it as your base for however long you want and then travel around. Spend some time in USA/KL/Bangkok and still be able to show the authorities, if any ask, that you're paying 10% to an EU country.

You could try E2 entreprenear (invest $100k - $250k in a business), but your not permanent resident status and need to renew often, people refer to it as the "visa from hell" as you can easily loose it .... or EB5 investment which leads to greencard - that $900k or $1.8 million
 

cinquepalli

New member
In a similar situation here. Remote IT worker that makes around $200k.
I am a UK tax resident/citizen but don't spend enough time there to make it worth pay 19%. corporate tax + dividends.

Looking for a place with good weather, low taxes and tech/crypto friendly. English/Spanish main language ideally.
I travel a lot so I won't really spend 6 months there but need a place to show main residency.

My first choice was Miami/PR but visas are a PAIN. I haven't found a good way to move there without spending a crazy amount of money (maybe O1visa but requirements are very strict).

Spain was my next choice but have looked in details taxes seem crazy, hard pass.

Gibraltar might be a decent place as foreign dividends are tax free and bureaucracy is very similar to UK. Main drawbacks is that housing is very expensive and I guess its a boring place.

Portugal I ruled out as NHR is too shady, also non business friendly and general southern European of hating people with a bit of money.

Italy tax breaks seem advantageous but when you look into details you will realize that if you move to a Southern region you will taxes on 10% of IRPEF. You still have to pay 27% INPS + 2% some other tax on your taxable income.
So real tax rate is >29%, which is mainly to the pension system.

Cyprus and Panama interesting tax situation, they dont really excite me too much as places to live though.

So I am more and more eager to move to Gibraltar, wanted to see if anyone here has other ideas?
 

cinquepalli

New member
@marzio not really excited about DR (similar to Panama - safety issues mainly and not a great place to do business).

Re Gibraltar - does anyone know if you can keep a tax residency there by living only a couple of months a year (as long as you dont spend more than 180 days anywhere else in the world)? Do the Gibraltar tax agency check how many days are you spending a year in the rock and do they even care? I would rent a flat for the whole year and use it when needed.

Also - As a UK citizen can I move there if I have a UK corporation and become a Gibraltar tax resident easily? I wouldnt be considered a high net worth individual.
 
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JustAnotherNomad

Entrepreneur
Come to Dubai. ;)
But I guess Gibraltar or Andorra could be a good option also. Someone here mentioned there are no border controls to Spain between one of the countries and Spain...
 

Sols

Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Gibraltar is extremely boring but you're not far away from Marbella and other more interesting parts of Spain. Go spend a week there before moving, though.
 

marzio

Entrepreneur
Gibraltar might be a decent place as foreign dividends are tax free
It could be a decent place but you have to stay there for at least 100 days a year to be considered tax resident and can't do any work while there otherwise it will not be considered foreign income.

But I guess Gibraltar or Andorra could be a good option also
Andorra isn't an option because of the cold weather.

I would add also Dubai to the list of places with extreme weather

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FixieHartmann

Active Member
Have you thought about Dominican Republic?

0% tax (territorial taxation), no CFC and no CRS.

2h20min flight to Miami where you can rent a home and live for part of the year
That is actually an interesting recommendation. If you are fluent in Spanish and can bear with a highly disfunctional and corrupt government the DR is not a bad place. Not the safest place but with your money you can live in a gated community.
 

cinquepalli

New member
It could be a decent place but you have to stay there for at least 100 days a year to be considered tax resident and can't do any work while there otherwise it will not be considered foreign income.
What if I have a foreign company setup in a low tax jurisdiction? Would it come under CFC rules and be considered a Gibraltar one?

Also if I keep an apartment there how they check the 100 days rule since border will go away soon?
 

marzio

Entrepreneur
Also if I keep an apartment there how they check the 100 days rule since border will go away soon?
It really depends how hard they want to enforce that check. They could ask you the card statement to see where you are spending money but it's highly unlikely they will do it.
 

saintjohnny

New member
Have you thought about Dominican Republic?

0% tax (territorial taxation), no CFC and no CRS.

2h20min flight to Miami where you can rent a home and live for part of the year
This is not true. Tax is "territorial" only for the first 3 years as a resident. And there's a single Tax Treaty in place, and it's with Spain.

That is actually an interesting recommendation. If you are fluent in Spanish and can bear with a highly disfunctional and corrupt government the DR is not a bad place. Not the safest place but with your money you can live in a gated community.
He doesn't know what he's talking about. It doesn't work that way. I'm a dual Spain-DR citizen.
 
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