Blocked bank account after cashing out crypto in Germany or other country?

[Verbatim]

So all my funds are legitimate and so is my crypto. I have spoken to the banks, they do not have a problem accepting funds from crypto.
I am getting concerned if I make a big deposit to a German bank the deposit can get blocked by either the bank or the tax authorities.
I am not concerned it will be blocked forever but it would certainly not be pleasant, you need to speak to lawyer, send/receive letters etc and communication is very hard.
Every transaction over 10k has to be reported in maximum 30 days in Germany. This is EU rule from this year.
Other people have told me that they had no problem with account blocking in German banks even for large sums from crypto.
Has anyone had their deposits from crypto gains blocked in Germany or any other country?
Someone posted about a UK guy whose deposit was blocked for 6 months and he had to get a lawyer to unblock it. This is what im trying to avoid.

 

[TravelAfficionado]

Open multiple bank accounts, ideally in multiple countries. Then it's no problem if any one account gets temporarily blocked.

 

[Marie Manila]

Every transaction over 10k has to be reported in maximum 30 days in Germany. This is EU rule from this year.

Where did you find that rule?
I never heard of that and I am doing banking in Germany, too.

Some years ago, I moved a quite high sum from Germany to Luxembourg without getting blocked or any hassle.
Only banks in Malta ask me for source of funds quite often.

Like @globaljetset already said, if I were you, I would also open several accounts in several countries and spread my money to those.

 

[Verbatim]

Where did you find that rule?
I never heard of that and I am doing banking in Germany, too.

Some years ago, I moved a quite high sum from Germany to Luxembourg without getting blocked or any hassle.
Only banks in Malta ask me for source of funds quite often.

Like @globaljetset already said, if I were you, I would also open several accounts in several countries and spread my money to those.

You can look here:

Über 10.000 Euro bar einzahlen: Das müssen Bankkunden wissen

Wer mehr als 10.000 Euro Bargeld auf sein Konto einzahlen will, muss nach einer Entscheidung der Bundesanstalt für Finanzdienstleistungsaufsicht (BaFin) seit Anfang August gegenüber der Bank nachweisen, woher der Betrag stammt. Dies gilt entsprechend auch für den Edelmetallankauf und den Tausch...

bankenverband.de

Its a new rule starting from August and I just read 10k is abour your main bank, if its another bank it is 2500 euros.
From Germany to Luxembourg, then it is about Luxembourg rules, although as I have learned it is rule for whole of Europe.
If you want to send me a PM, go ahead.

 

[Verbatim]

Open multiple bank accounts, ideally in multiple countries. Then it's no problem if any one account gets temporarily blocked.

It is an EU-wide rule. I don't care about the reporting but getting it unfrozen may take a while and be costly.

 

[Marie Manila]

You can look here:

Über 10.000 Euro bar einzahlen: Das müssen Bankkunden wissen

Wer mehr als 10.000 Euro Bargeld auf sein Konto einzahlen will, muss nach einer Entscheidung der Bundesanstalt für Finanzdienstleistungsaufsicht (BaFin) seit Anfang August gegenüber der Bank nachweisen, woher der Betrag stammt. Dies gilt entsprechend auch für den Edelmetallankauf und den Tausch...

bankenverband.de

Its a new rule starting from August and I just read 10k is abour your main bank, if its another bank it is 2500 euros.
From Germany to Luxembourg, then it is about Luxembourg rules, although as I have learned it is rule for whole of Europe.
If you want to send me a PM, go ahead.

As far as I understand this rule is only about cash deposits.

You want to deposit money by SEPA transfer, don't you? So this rule doesn't apply to you.

I still recommend you to open several accounts and spread your money.
If you are still afraid, you can transfer less than 10000 euro to each account.

 

[Allisgood]

You can look here:

Über 10.000 Euro bar einzahlen: Das müssen Bankkunden wissen

Wer mehr als 10.000 Euro Bargeld auf sein Konto einzahlen will, muss nach einer Entscheidung der Bundesanstalt für Finanzdienstleistungsaufsicht (BaFin) seit Anfang August gegenüber der Bank nachweisen, woher der Betrag stammt. Dies gilt entsprechend auch für den Edelmetallankauf und den Tausch...

bankenverband.de

Its a new rule starting from August and I just read 10k is abour your main bank, if its another bank it is 2500 euros.
From Germany to Luxembourg, then it is about Luxembourg rules, although as I have learned it is rule for whole of Europe.
If you want to send me a PM, go ahead.

This is only related to paying in 10k+ physical cash to your German bank account. So only when you go to a German branch and deposit more than 10k cash you need proof where the money is from. It’s unrelated to any cashless transfers.

 

[zerosugar]

It is an EU-wide rule. I don't care about the reporting but getting it unfrozen may take a while and be costly.

I only translated the text using deepl, but from what i understand this counts only for cash deposits. It has nothing directly to do with EU guidelines. It's about financial supervisory authority forcing german banks to implement local AML law into practice. This is not about bank wires. If they requested these documents for every personal transaction bigger than 10k then a lot of bank accounts would be blocked.

 

[Verbatim]

Thanks for the answers.
I spoke to my bank and they said I need to bring proof of funds in person. They then forward the information to the relevant authorities. But this is just procedural, I was wondering about actual experiences with funds being blocked for months on end. Obviously it can happen everywhere but I am just trying to learn to prepare.

 

[zerosugar]

Thanks for the answers.
I spoke to my bank and they said I need to bring proof of funds in person. They then forward the information to the relevant authorities. But this is just procedural, I was wondering about actual experiences with funds being blocked for months on end. Obviously it can happen everywhere but I am just trying to learn to prepare.

Maybe you should change your bank if they directly sent a SAR because you sold crypto. There's no obligation for the bank to report you because are selling crypto currency. They have the obligation only when things don't add up. This is what you are going to prevent approaching your banker before with all regarding documents. Your account manager told you this information?

 

[Verbatim]

Not because I would sell cryptocurrency. I approached them before and explained everything for my case but they need to see documents for the trades which of course are not available yet.

 

[Verbatim]

Maybe you should change your bank if they directly sent a SAR because you sold crypto. There's no obligation for the bank to report you because are selling crypto currency. They have the obligation only when things don't add up. This is what you are going to prevent approaching your banker before with all regarding documents. Your account manager told you this information?

In one bank they told me that they report it - not only when things don't add up. In another bank they did not mentioned something like this but the guy was not very well informed. I don't really care if they report it or not because of course I would declare it but I'm just concerned about a blocked bank account because of the effort, the stress and the cost to unblock it. But maybe I do not understand the system well enough yet.

 

[Verbatim]

Maybe you should change your bank if they directly sent a SAR because you sold crypto. There's no obligation for the bank to report you because are selling crypto currency. They have the obligation only when things don't add up. This is what you are going to prevent approaching your banker before with all regarding documents. Your account manager told you this information?

In any case, thanks for letting me know this is supposed to happen only when things do not add up, because they do add up I was also left with the impression that the funds are not available until you show to the bank how you obtained them, which makes sense. The banker told me that once you show proof of funds, the funds become available.

 

[Rzeznik]

Every transaction over 10k has to be reported in maximum 30 days in Germany.

even somenthing is reported doesn't mean anything. Those who collect data are overload with those reports and will mostly do s**t about if it is inside EU.
If you use SEPA (single European payment area ) that mean mostly for bank those money went some AML procedure already.
If you were getting wire transfer from BVI / Marchal Islands it can be complicated.

Someone posted about a UK guy whose deposit was blocked for 6 months and he had to get a lawyer to unblock it. This is what im trying to avoid.

UK is not in EU now so aplach can be diffrent there now.

I was also left with the impression that the funds are not available until you show to the bank how you obtained them, which makes sense. The banker told me that once you show proof of funds, the funds become available.

Problem with crypto is mostly that even you have SOF that proof doesn't speak much because it will be some kind crypto exchange screen or proof.
Banks as proof mostly want have invoice / sell agreement etc. that is why in case of dispute you can have problems.
Try find if your bank is making people trouble with transfers because AML procedures are everywhere different .
If your bank makes problem with crypto transfers avoid it.

One more thing - if bank gets fine for poor KYC/AML then it starts to be mostly problematic if your bank did't get any fine then in 9/10 cases you will be fine.

 

[zerosugar]

Not because I would sell cryptocurrency. I approached them before and explained everything for my case but they need to see documents for the trades which of course are not available yet.

There are a lot of ways of how to document your trades. If you don't have documents then go to a lawyer with expertise in crypto currency. That's better than gambling.
If you're smart enough you don't even need the lawyer.

 

[JohnLocke]

As mentioned already here in the thread what you linked to is for cash deposits not for transfer from an exchange to your Germany bank account.

If your bank claim that they need to report it then I would ask for evidence or do as also suggested here in the thread, open multiple bank accounts even in different countries.

 

[Verbatim]

even somenthing is reported doesn't mean anything. Those who collect data are overload with those reports and will mostly do s**t about if it is inside EU.
If you use SEPA (single European payment area ) that mean mostly for bank those money went some AML procedure already.
If you were getting wire transfer from BVI / Marchal Islands it can be complicated.


UK is not in EU now so aplach can be diffrent there now.


Problem with crypto is mostly that even you have SOF that proof doesn't speak much because it will be some kind crypto exchange screen or proof.
Banks as proof mostly want have invoice / sell agreement etc. that is why in case of dispute you can have problems.
Try find if your bank is making people trouble with transfers because AML procedures are everywhere different .
If your bank makes problem with crypto transfers avoid it.

One more thing - if bank gets fine for poor KYC/AML then it starts to be mostly problematic if your bank did't get any fine then in 9/10 cases you will be fine.

Well the banker was clear they need to see buy/sell trades from the exchange. I don't know what other proof any crypto trader would be able to procure. The bank didn't seem likely to want to create any problems in case I provide this information.
I do not have some information that the bank creates problems with crypto transfers. I did all my purchases via them.
Everyone I asked in Germany said they had no problems. I only know one case.
Both banks I spoke to (large German banks) have had fines for AML. So there is nothing I can do about that.

 

[Verbatim]

There are a lot of ways of how to document your trades. If you don't have documents then go to a lawyer with expertise in crypto currency. That's better than gambling.
If you're smart enough you don't even need the lawyer.

I have evidence for the purchases just not for the sales because this hasn't happened yet. I am definitely getting advice from lawyer with experise in crypto. Thanks.

 

[Verbatim]

even somenthing is reported doesn't mean anything. Those who collect data are overload with those reports and will mostly do s**t about if it is inside EU.
If you use SEPA (single European payment area ) that mean mostly for bank those money went some AML procedure already.
If you were getting wire transfer from BVI / Marchal Islands it can be complicated.


UK is not in EU now so aplach can be diffrent there now.


Problem with crypto is mostly that even you have SOF that proof doesn't speak much because it will be some kind crypto exchange screen or proof.
Banks as proof mostly want have invoice / sell agreement etc. that is why in case of dispute you can have problems.
Try find if your bank is making people trouble with transfers because AML procedures are everywhere different .
If your bank makes problem with crypto transfers avoid it.

One more thing - if bank gets fine for poor KYC/AML then it starts to be mostly problematic if your bank did't get any fine then in 9/10 cases you will be fine.

It will be a SEPA transfer but firstly, Kraken sends via Bank Frick in Lichnenstein and this is not EU and secondly, Kraken is regulated in the UK and it is also not EU. But I specifically asked if the institution is a problem and the banker said no, there is no problem. I am sure many Germans use American/international brokerages and send from anywhere in the world. They mostly seem to care that you were actually investing/trading and not doing anything illegal/cannot prove funds.

 

[Verbatim]

Any other routes that Kraken uses that could be better like Clear Junction?