Crypto 300kEUR to Fiat

[Cato]

Dear Forum,

i have around 300kEUR in cryptos. German citizen. I can't proof the origin of the coins since I hold them in Monero. They are not 'dirty'.
Can I transfer them to a company operating in a tax heaven safely? I want to use them for buying property and stock investments.
I don't like German financial system gets involved and prefer to stay private. Nobody knows about these coins.

Imaginary Case A
I open a financial company in Georgia and transfer the coins in several tranches (5 wire transfers per Month a 5000EUR) by a peer2peer trading platform. The source of payments will be private people.

Will the georgian bank freeze my account?

Open for all kind of suggestions by you smart guys.
Many thanks.

 

[TurnedToRobot]

You want to setup as many EMI's as possible to spread the FIAT to them, from there you transfer the money to the Georgia bank account if that is what you consider to be the best for you.

 

[LucyOffshore]

First find out if a Georgia company is allowed to buy property in Germany and form your setup accordingly.

 

[7889]

I think you're overcomplicating it.
What you need to do is
- register and get verified on Kraken exchange (USA-based). I suggest Kraken because they are efficient and non-CRS and i have personal experience with them.
- transfer Monero to your Kraken account
- send request to their OTC desk and tell them you want to sell XMR for USD. They MAY suggest converting them to bitcoin first, because XMR/USD trading is not that big, but that's not 100%
- they will set up a private chat with you (whatsapp/viber/telegram etc) and explain what to do next. It's really very easy. They will suggest the price and you will say OK or not OK. You can sell everything at once or make few trades (but OTC only deal with amounts over 100k). I suggest OTC instead of regular fiat withdrawal because 1) OTC withdrawals are WAY faster 2) for regular USD withdrawals with Kraken you will have to go through additional verification with their custody service (Etana custody) which is kind of pain the a*s.
- in the meantime you can open personal account in Georgia
- you will instruct Kraken to send USD to Georgia account. Bank will not freeze it. Money will come from USA-based bank
Then you can use your funds as you see fit.
I don't see any point in setting up multiple EMI's.

 

[Cato]

@7889

If I understood you right, Kraken will not perform a background check regarding the origin of the 100k USD in cryptos? I tried 20k USD with a different big american exchange once and the exchanger freezed it. They asked me for documents about origin. Is a simple personal banking account in georgia strong enough, to protect my privacy in terms of german taxation?

 

[7889]

@7889

If I understood you right, Kraken will not perform a background check regarding the origin of the 100k USD in cryptos? I tried 20k USD with a different big american exchange once and the exchanger freezed it. They asked me for documents about origin. Is a simple personal banking account in georgia strong enough, to protect my privacy in terms of german taxation?

Honestly, it's a first time i've ever heard of exchange asking for the origin of CRYPTO (i've never been asked about origin of fiat either, but at least i can see how that could happen). You could have mined all your crypto after all.
Regarding your other question - all we can say at this point, is that Georgia is not a part of CRS. Of course, if the existence of your account will be somehow disclosed to german taxmen and they decide to request account history from Georgia i would not count on their request being denied.

 

[void]

You could have mined all your crypto after all.

This argument will hardly work. There are currencies (like BTC) where it can be verified. There are currencies where it's complicated or not possible (like Monero) and cashing out big amount will be difficult if not impossible.

Even if you manage to process the cash out you will have a problem spending this money sooner or later (someone will ask about the original source - if not now then in a few years). I don't like it, I don't think it's right, but it is what it is - the bigger money the bigger problem. You're not the only one in this situation.

 

[Cato]

This argument will hardly work. There are currencies (like BTC) where it can be verified. There are currencies where it's complicated or not possible (like Monero) and cashing out big amount will be difficult if not impossible.

Even if you manage to process the cash out you will have a problem spending this money sooner or later (someone will ask about the original source - if not now then in a few years). I don't like it, I don't think it's right, but it is what it is - the bigger money the bigger problem. You're not the only one in this situation.

@void
What would you do in my situation? Get a good lawyer?

 

[void]

What would you do in my situation? Get a good lawyer?

I don't feel qualified - take this as an opinion and not an advice.
Depends how and where did you get your monero. We still don't know if it's about hiding criminal activity, avoiding taxes from crypto profit, keeping privacy. The solution depends...

 

[void]

In the meantime you should read this - it's not fresh and you're not ultra rich but mostly applies

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7lu6ze

 

[TurnedToRobot]

It's a whole lot of reading, thanks for sharing that

 

[OTR365]

- in the meantime you can open personal account in Georgia
- you will instruct Kraken to send USD to Georgia account. Bank will not freeze it. Money will come from USA-based bank

As far as I know, USD withdrawals from Kraken are done via Etana Custody. Etana will only wire to a country where the recipient is resident.

 

[Cato]

Thank you all. We are on track. In the meantime I tried to collect more information about my situation.

Let's assume the cryptocoins have no records at all.
@void @darkster that information about crypto by swissprivatebanker is very interesting, yet not useful for me. Because there is no records.

Options

Maybe it is a good idea to open IBC and filing random invoices for consuting B2C. The customer is a set up VPS (EMI plus P2P exchange for the crypto)...? To tax them all with low fees...

or

get a tax residency in a low regulated country like panama to cash in all cryptos part by part under my real identity and hope for the best?

 

[uplana]

OP can you shed some light on what it was that solved your problem and which setup you used?