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uplana

Corporate Services
Mentor Group Gold
Why? If everyone pays the same everywhere, why would these countries be the most popular, unless the freedom to live anywhere is reduced by financial reasons? Will the really wealthy (and/or with power) be the only ones to have real choices in regards to life quality?
that's really a very good question we need to discuss.
 

khinkali

Entrepreneur
No point having a minimum 15% tax rate but a country offers a 99% rebate.
Meanwhile, bigger richer countries just prop up businesses like Boeing and Airbus with pork barrel military contracts and regional development aid while crying foul that smaller countries are trying to encourage entrepreneurs.
 

FixieHartmann

New member
Interesting what happens when everybody is paying the same, corp. income tax and personal income tax, all over the world. There will be a group that will be making good profit managing government in that country (or countries) but there will be the question from the citizen - "what do I get for my tax money?".

Now, these people that are in control of the government will need to prove that their government is the best among all others and that is why a (prosperous) citizen should live there. If you pay the same taxes living in USA but pay top dollares for health care then suddenly the government in any other country that gives better healthcare would be a better option. Whichever government builds the best life quality will have more citizens and more tax money...unless/until this also is put out of control for a citizen...then what? Would some kind of -ism enter worldwide?
Another interesting point will then be the competition of company domiciles. If I pay the same corporate tax anywhere there is no need for substance requirements and I can simply choose the best jurisdiction in terms of rule of law, bureaucracy etc.
 

22kay

New member
Because there is no more incentive to live in a developing country or in one of the tiny autocratic monarchies.
That is under the assumption that all countries/governments are equal.

But paying the same income tax everywhere doesn't mean, for example, that high crime countries become just as attractive as the ones with low crime (unless you fancy high crime countries from the beginning...).
 

22kay

New member
And then let's spice it up with some cryptocurrency...that can add an interesting twist to it all. Although it's fairly new as a concept and it can be hard to comprehend its impact on all situations, it is maturing and becoming more and more accepted. That is another "threat" for the politicians and top wealth people to handle...more tax ideas, anyone?
 

Bagpacker

Active Member
more tax ideas, anyone
No need for sophisticated ideas anymore. It will all be covered by a European wealth levy. I mentioned that above. A few years later EU politicians will promote the wealth levy (which will -of course- be a great success story) on OECD level.
The process will be a copy of what happened when, step-by-step, CRS was introduced: First it was the European Savings directive where they gathered experience, then it was followed by CRS. At the time nobody envisaged that anything like that will ever introduced.
From implementation of the European Savings directive until a functioning CRS it took a mere 10 years. Rest assured that introduction Global Wealth levy/Global Personal Minimum tax on OECD level will not take any longer, considering todays' tax environment.

For the taxman a wealth tax/wealth levy has the beauty that he can capture every single piece of what a person owns. If you have ever looked into Swiss wealth tax you know how efficient this system is. So, from that perspective there is no difference between crypto, precious metals, securities, cash, collectibles, real estate ....

On top of it countries can easily justify a wealth levy/wealth tax by pointing on Switzerland: "See, even the Swiss have it. It must be good. How else can it be that Switzerland is so wealthy ....". :rolleyes:
 

Bagpacker

Active Member
That is under the assumption that all countries/governments are equal.
No, it isn't.
Tell me: What is the incentive to live in the UAE (Dubai) compared to Norway (Oslo) when it is not for the tax advantage (please, ignore the weather)? I picked these two because in both countries average living expenses are very high.
 

azb1

Entrepreneur
If tax is not reason , I like to live in Nordic countries.
Only reason people choose to live in Dubai is Tax reason or some criminal Background.
Without Tax saving there is no benefit of Living in Dubai.
It become boring here. And who want to live in monarchy ruled country.

Somehow Government also know this.
That's why there is no chance that UAE impose or sign any treaty for Personal Income tax
 

Bagpacker

Active Member
That's why there is no chance that UAE impose or sign any treaty for Personal Income tax
That's the same what people said regarding implementation of the Savings Directive and CRS: No chance this country or that country will sign. In the end everybody signed.
In the case of UAE it is even easier: It is just a single tiny country which needs the West. It can be pressed into signing almost anything. There will not be much resistance, not many carrots needed.

Anyway, lets see how this plays out. We can check on it again in a few years time. I just recommend anybody to not build on the assumption that tax competition between countries is here to stay.
 

azb1

Entrepreneur
That's the same what people said regarding implementation of the Savings Directive and CRS: No chance this country or that country will sign. In the end everybody signed.
In the case of UAE it is even easier: It is just a single tiny country which needs the West. It can be pressed into signing almost anything. There will not be much resistance, not many carrots needed.

Anyway, lets see how this plays out. We can check on it again in a few years time. I just recommend anybody to not build on the assumption that tax competition between countries is here to stay.
"implementation of the Savings Directive and CRS" does not finish UAE economy.
But Personal Income tax does.
 

Bagpacker

Active Member
But Personal Income tax does.
No, they just have to reinvent themself. And they are already trying to do that by shifting to tourism and becoming a traffic hub (even though the latter is a money pit).
Many of the traditional tax havens in the Caribbean, the Channel Islands and mainland Europe had to reinvent themselves when European Savings Directive and CRS emerged. All managed to do exactly that and have arranged with the new environment.
Understand: This is not about what a single country wants or does not want. UAE has no say. If they do not sign they will just be put on numerous blacklists and lights turn off.
 

azb1

Entrepreneur
No, they just have to reinvent themself. And they are already trying to do that by shifting to tourism and becoming a traffic hub (even though the latter is a money pit).
Many of the traditional tax havens in the Caribbean, the Channel Islands and mainland Europe had to reinvent themselves when European Savings Directive and CRS emerged. All managed to do exactly that and have arranged with the new environment.
Understand: This is not about what a single country wants or does not want. UAE has no say. If they do not sign they will just be put on numerous blacklists and lights turn off.
True, But Global Tax big country have problem for single tax.
Big country will not accept some term and condition of each other.
It takes time.
Do you think Putin agree with US term and condition ?
US impose restriction ban on Russia and Iran . They are still working.
In past US impose sanction on so many country. I do not see any country have significant loss for long term By this type of sanction.
I find US sanction is some kind of joke now a day.
There is no serious damage by imposing sanction.
It just satisfy ego of US politician. and they can brag "Who is your daddy".

In internet Age, If you are biggest country , biggest army all kind of money , power etc.
But It is hard to find one person hide in Mountain ;););) It takes 10 years to find one man.
You know who I am talking about.smi(&%smi(&%smi(&%

I believe making Law is easy task. implementation is hard.
By Imposing Global minimum tax does not give guaranteed that big corp like Apple, Amazon, Google starting paying huge tax.
They will find one another way to save tax.

I am sure that without using any offshore entity , Only using USA entity , some strategy You can minimize your tax.

It is like forever going on cat-mouse fight.



Thanks
 
Last edited:

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
No need for sophisticated ideas anymore. It will all be covered by a European wealth levy. I mentioned that above. A few years later EU politicians will promote the wealth levy (which will -of course- be a great success story) on OECD level.
The process will be a copy of what happened when, step-by-step, CRS was introduced: First it was the European Savings directive where they gathered experience, then it was followed by CRS. At the time nobody envisaged that anything like that will ever introduced.
From implementation of the European Savings directive until a functioning CRS it took a mere 10 years. Rest assured that introduction Global Wealth levy/Global Personal Minimum tax on OECD level will not take any longer, considering todays' tax environment.

For the taxman a wealth tax/wealth levy has the beauty that he can capture every single piece of what a person owns. If you have ever looked into Swiss wealth tax you know how efficient this system is. So, from that perspective there is no difference between crypto, precious metals, securities, cash, collectibles, real estate ....

On top of it countries can easily justify a wealth levy/wealth tax by pointing on Switzerland: "See, even the Swiss have it. It must be good. How else can it be that Switzerland is so wealthy ....". :rolleyes:

This sounds plausible.

I mean Spain already has a nice wealth tax. They include in the wealth tax everything you own from your dead mothers earrings, paintings, Persian carpets, watch on your wrist, cars and your aged whisky in your cellar.

I wonder why under AMLD5 they include reporting of safety deposit boxes. The fact they are laying the ground work for discovering everything you own should make one very suspicious of what they are planning long term.
 

Bagpacker

Active Member
This sounds plausible.

I mean Spain already has a nice wealth tax. They include in the wealth tax everything you own from your dead mothers earrings, paintings, Persian carpets, watch on your wrist, cars and your aged whisky in your cellar.

I wonder why under AMLD5 they include reporting of safety deposit boxes. The fact they are laying the ground work for discovering everything you own should make one very suspicious of what they are planning long term.
I did not know that Spain has a wealth tax. What you describe sounds like the Spaniards studied the Swiss wealth tax: It is exactly the same principle. In Switzerland everything has to be reported in the wealth declaration, even the deposit a landlord received for letting a flat (not the landlord has to report, it is the tenant who has to report because the deposit still belongs to the tenant!).

AMLD5 and safety deposit boxes = It is the first step in an attempt to capture assets held in bank deposit boxes and in non-bank deposit boxes. Currently unreported commercial storage facilities for precious metals will soon be a thing of the past.
 

22kay

New member
No, it isn't.
Tell me: What is the incentive to live in the UAE (Dubai) compared to Norway (Oslo) when it is not for the tax advantage (please, ignore the weather)? I picked these two because in both countries average living expenses are very high.
There could be many incentives apart from income tax, for example political/freedom of speech, family ties, religion, culture, healthcare, crime, etc.

Norway vs UAE is only a very small portion of countries available in the world and it's up to whomever to choose as they wish. I would still recon some people would like to live in UAE although not for the tax reason, even if the countries were the same, and of course same goes for Norway.
 

22kay

New member
There could be many incentives apart from income tax, for example political/freedom of speech, family ties, religion, culture, healthcare, crime, etc.

Norway vs UAE is only a very small portion of countries available in the world and it's up to whomever to choose as they wish. I would still recon some people would like to live in UAE although not for the tax reason, even if the countries were the same, and of course same goes for Norway.
"even if the countries were the same" = even if the income tax would be the same., is what I meant
 

Goodman

New member
I think there is no way these global taxes will affect majority of countries, G7 is not whole world and other countries have not elected them think for themselves. Only thing it will do it will fuel organized opposition, no way China, India, Middle East , South America, Africa and Russia will agree to some globalist's sick fantasies.....
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
I think there is no way these global taxes will affect majority of countries, G7 is not whole world and other countries have not elected them think for themselves. Only thing it will do it will fuel organized opposition, no way China, India, Middle East , South America, Africa and Russia will agree to some globalist's sick fantasies.....

I thought the same about FATCA and CRS but here we are :(.
 

Sols

Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Now I understand why Musk and Bezos are so keen on leaving the planet. The Martian Interplanetary Business Companies Act of 2030 is going to be fantastic. ;)

I think there is no way these global taxes will affect majority of countries, G7 is not whole world and other countries have not elected them think for themselves. Only thing it will do it will fuel organized opposition, no way China, India, Middle East , South America, Africa and Russia will agree to some globalist's sick fantasies.....
Many of those already have tax rates over 15%. This doesn't really affect any of the big economies. They'll gladly pressure everyone else into complying, just like CRS and FATCA as @Martin Everson pointed out.

If we take nominal GDP as a measurement and depending on which source we use, we need to get down to around the 30th largest economy to find one with a lower tax rate: Ireland (12.5%). A bit after that is UAE. Then it's a long distance down to Qatar (0—10%).

Just have a look: Corporate Tax Rates Table
 
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