Do you know some persons that got in tax trouble ?

[SasuT]

Hello,
We always read and insist on the fact that opening an offshore company need to be done carefully. Cut ties with your old country, make everything properly...
But what does this truly mean in practice? Have you known anyone personally who has encountered issues with their "old" country after relocating and setting up an offshore business?

Alternative question, did you personnaly, or someone you know, have ever dealt with taxmen (from any country) ? Interesting to get some testimonials on that, because it's the hantise of many persons..

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I know myself and at least 2 dozens of people in various countries. Most of them were innocent, a couple just naive, another couple knowingly guilty of tax evasion. Everyone lost time and money, someone even his health.

 

[SasuT]

I know myself and at least 2 dozens of people in various countries. Most of them were innocent, a couple just naive, another couple knowingly guilty of tax evasion. Everyone lost time and money, someone even his health.

Would be interesting to read the details about those stories

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Would be interesting to read the details about those stories

They are all too private and sad to be shared.
You can’t win against the most powerful criminal organizations, you should either avoid the battle or settle. “Being right” doesn’t matter, justice doesn’t exist in this world.

 

[Juleski70]

For what it's worth, what few stories I know are about people whose net worth were in the multimillions. I'm actually kind of surprised how few stories I hear about people in lower brackets who run their finances in pretty sloppy ways.

In my home country, it's common to get a partial audit request, ie. Show records for a particular category of expenses for a particular year. That happened to me, but in the end, when my documentation didn't exactly align, it was a simple matter of paying what I couldn't verify... turns out only to be a few hundred dollars lol. No fines, no threats, just accounting. It caused me a lot of stress, but most of it was in my own mind. Keep in mind, I'm talking 100-250k/yr net earnings bracket.


Off topic, but as I get older, I'm more aware than ever that every person has their own appetite & tolerance for risks & uncertainty. I think it's a valuable exercise to look back on your life and ask whether you were usually too reckless or too cautious; the extent to which dangers were actually statistically significant, or mostly imagined, and whether your attitudes were shaped by your parents hangups, cautionary tales from the Internet, or your real-life adult experience of the world.

 

[wellington]

Yes when i was a kid, friend of the family was moving fund (before reporting) to brazil to start a life after retirement.

Divorced the Wife, left her the house and skipped to brazil.

couple of years later HMRC came knocking, dragged his a*s back to the UK, didn't imprison him (this was around 2010) hit him with something like 600,000 pounds in fines, destroyed his relationship with the chick x/x% his age, and since then he's been in the UK repaying this...

Ex wife got a house out of it, she did well, he did well in respect he was banging a 18yr old at 55.

In my home country, it's common to get a partial audit request, ie. Show records for a particular category of expenses for a particular year. That happened to me, but in the end, when my documentation didn't exactly align, it was a simple matter of paying what I couldn't verify... turns out only to be a few hundred dollars lol. No fines, no threats, just accounting. It caused me a lot of stress, but most of it was in my own mind. Keep in mind, I'm talking 100-250k/yr net earnings bracket.

To be fair if someone is making good money, and its not essential they remain in a country (say the UK as an example), then they are an absolute fool for remaining there.

The UK has one of the fairest tax setups for non-residents in the Western World, in addition there's tonnes of countries that are of good standard of living without massive financial outlay where one can reside and pretty much be tax exempt based on legalised structuring (1yr deferred matured, corporate, etc).

For the EU i can't really give any input, I know in Switzerland I pay a handsome sum, and haven't even stepped foot into the country since Covid (non resident-non-citizen- wealth tax), and they literally were about to take me to court for a unpaid tax worth less than the piece of paper that finally found its way to a friend who immediately settled (been bouncing around the world for a year apparently).

It's not so much a fool for not harvesting a tax structure where one can legally avoid exposure to tax, its the stupidity of residing in a place where one has to go through mass accounting and reporting annually.

It's the same with Companies - BVI for example now has to do tax accounting and reporting - it costs more to do than the actually expenditure of holding company (IP) in a year.

** For example, a Belgium neighbour has to do accounting and submissions annually in Belgium, he hasn't lived there for 20 odd years **

Australia now introducing a 45day residency tax retirement -> the accounting for that is going to mind-boggling.

 

[Juleski70]

its the stupidity of residing in a place where one has to go through mass accounting and reporting annually.

+1. Don't underestimate the value of reducing the difficulty of your filing requirements and audit risk. It's arguably worth more than obsessing over the 0% quest.

 

[JohnLocke]

Count me in, I relocated 2 times to be sure to get out of the shithole where I lived. The entire tax case were like you only see it in the movie. Some immigrant in the Tax office had to be present an image for the country and integration. He finds a small case and then they start making up stories and theories etc. It all ended up with a huge bill at the lawyers. The tax employee was given a crown for being skilled and well integrated. Success for the country and for immigration.

Ohh don't get me wrong, I don't flee from them, I just don't want to be part of a country where such stuff is going on. I'm free to live there. The country is known for the help they give for free to everyone that don't have money. Just come there, say you don't want to work and you get it from the state... the tax payer pays for it... it's crazy.

 

[CoinMaster]

It's not so much a fool for not harvesting a tax structure where one can legally avoid exposure to tax, its the stupidity of residing in a place where one has to go through mass accounting and reporting annually.

Not all can be as smart as you some of you around are!

 

[tacokai]

count me in, have been in the same shitty situation.

 

[SasuT]

count me in, have been in the same shitty situation.

Any details to share?

 

[tacokai]

No not really, don't want to share a lot.. the story is similar to what already is wrote here. The tax man came after me, they made up lies and I wasn't able to fight it because of the costs to the lawyers and tax firm. They are INSANE Nazi people.

 

[Konstanz]

No not really, don't want to share a lot.. the story is similar to what already is wrote here. The tax man came after me, they made up lies and I wasn't able to fight it because of the costs to the lawyers and tax firm. They are INSANE Nazi people.

same here. Tax Investigation for couple years. Bills for lawyers of hundred thousand euros probably. All was made up just to tax me some way.

 

[SasuT]

same here. Tax Investigation for couple years. Bills for lawyers of hundred thousand euros probably. All was made up just to tax me some way.

Wow.
During the procedure, do they freeze some of your assets ? Bank account, real estate.. or even more, they take money from you directly and then you fight to get it back ??

 

[Konstanz]

Wow.
During the procedure, do they freeze some of your assets ? Bank account, real estate.. or even more, they take money from you directly and then you fight to get it back ??

No freeze. Just calculated huge amount of taxes which I had to fight in courts for 3 years.
But I know people who had their assets frozen. Similar situation. I was "cooperative" and responsive so they don't freeze my wealth.

 

[Cavaliere]

Any stories from Malta please do tell.

 

[jafo]

You can’t win against the most powerful criminal organizations, you should either avoid the battle or settle. “Being right” doesn’t matter, justice doesn’t exist in this world.

Truer words have NEVER been uttered!

PS. Of course, if you are Putin and sitting on 7000 warheads at your fingertips, there isn't a taxman willing to try their luck!

I know in Switzerland I pay a handsome sum, and haven't even stepped foot into the country since Covid (non resident-non-citizen- wealth tax), and they literally were about to take me to court for a unpaid tax worth less than the piece of paper that finally found its way to a friend who immediately settled

I know a person with a B permit who got stuck in Asia during COVID and the Swiss canceled his B permit. So, you have a C-permit then?
Can't you deregister? Or is there a reason why you maintain the residence there? Forfait maybe?

 

[Mike Forman]

Same here, once they go after you they are convinced they have a case and go at full length and claim as much as possible. Even you have structured and handled everything correctly, they will make up many stories and will always find something which they will enlarge and claim as fraud, shifting profits. Then they tax you accordingly x 300pct (interests, fines, tax increases). If you don't pay after 6 months they can block assets such as bank accounts.

Have good tax lawyer at hand and be ready to pay a few hundred thousand usd on legal fees, even you are right and will win, in the end you lose on legal fees.

Expect them also trying to go after any other possible related targets that are easier to get assets from, for example you have a family member who has access the a bank account and would occasionally confirm a payment or scan an invoice. They can claim that person to be involved and go after that responsible as well for tax claims.

That's why one has to keep fighting for his liberty and if possible move out without leaving ties to those aggressive tax jurisdictions.

One more advice is to never use any cloud systems such as Microsoft or Google if you have any data that could be sensitive. Even you delete mails or files, most remain available after deletion and authorities can easily get a court order that enables them to copy everything, send a forensic IT team and use ediscovery to copy all data, including deleted data, teams chat records, shared files etc.

 

[JackAlabama]

Truer words have NEVER been uttered!

PS. Of course, if you are Putin and sitting on 7000 warheads at your fingertips, there isn't a taxman willing to try their luck!


I know a person with a B permit who got stuck in Asia during COVID and the Swiss canceled his B permit. So, you have a C-permit then?
Can't you deregister? Or is there a reason why you maintain the residence there? Forfait maybe?

Thats to be expected. It goes exactly by the book there, unless of course you know, then there are exceptions

 

[tacokai]

Expect them also trying to go after any other possible related targets that are easier to get assets from,

Exactly what they did with me in Denmark., They were unable to get money out of me so they took my wife and taxed here for half of the income I already had paid tax of. These suckers are insane. They try to bleed out the man on the street. It is as usually the 1% games. The rich win the poor loose.

This world is damn fucked up.