Europe will soon have the e-coin, what's your thoughts?

[bizman]

I have just heard an interview where a number of experts have stated that virtually all European countries are developing an "e-currency" - thus it will be over with tax evasion, black money and everything else cash is used to nowadays .

What do you think, is it the end of all the "fun" what do the cartels do, pay taxes on their drug money, what do the prostitution industry do, run an e-coin through the butt?

 

[Marzio]

it will be over with tax evasion

I agree, it will be over with tax evasion.

It will be e-vasion.

 

[Sols]

It already exists: it's called EUR.

The amount of cash being used is decreasing year by year. Electronic payments are cheaper for businesses, safer for consumer, and more convenient for both. Regulators have created an environment where electronic payments are simply going to take over. The cash crowd is going to be so small soon that removing cash entirely will be politically doable. The only strong, loud arguments against will be redundancies in case payment systems are offline, and security/hacking.

But as long as you can convert fiat (whether it's electronic or physical) into something else that criminals can use, they will continue to operate. Crypto helps to solve this. Stablecoins and privacy coins are great for hiding and laundering money.

"Criminals" aren't just violent gangs, though. They include vulnerable groups which not all societies take good care of: drug addicts, sex workers, modern slaves. Societal culture will dictate what happens to them.

 

[JohnLocke]

It sounds to me that you ill have to convert your cash into Art, Gold, Crypto and other goods of value. There is a whole list inside this article of stuff you can put your money in
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/investment-matrix-discussion-for-doomsday.28868/
Beside that, personally I like cash, to see the era soon is over make me sad.

I was wondering if the USA and Russia so China will be following the evolution to an cashless world.

 

[Martin Everson]

The black market will just innovate to overcome this small hurdle sadly. We may enter an era of bartering with real assets like gold, art and land.

 

[Vor]

The black market will just innovate to overcome this small hurdle sadly. We may enter an era of bartering with real assets like gold, art and land.

Correct it's amazing to me people actually think an e-currency of any kind will end crime. Their is too much money at play in things like drug trafficking, human trafficking, fraud, and any other sort of illegal activity. Criminals aren't simply going to go oh well time to retire. They will find another way as they always do.

 

[OTR365]

There will be solutions. Crypto is not going anywhere, even if central banks issue their own tokens. Thus far e.g. Federal Reserve seems to be mostly worried about stablecoins, not bitcoin or ethereum.

Furthermore there exists a bunch of hardcore cypherpunks that never quite accepted crypto becoming just another investment asset for Wall St. types. For many of these coders, it was supposed to be a tool of liberation, wielded against the state. DeFi (Decentralized Finance) has existed for maybe three years, and now some people are dreaming of building DarkFi. Given enough time, a lot of offshore / tax haven stuff will migrate into crypto.

 

[369]

It sounds to me that you ill have to convert your cash into Art, Gold, Crypto and other goods of value. There is a whole list inside this article of stuff you can put your money in
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/investment-matrix-discussion-for-doomsday.28868/
Beside that, personally I like cash, to see the era soon is over make me sad.

I was wondering if the USA and Russia so China will be following the evolution to an cashless world.

it was agreed decades ago.Bitcoin is their baby.People still don't get it.
Try to create an alternative money other than crypto and see how quickly you will land in jail.
Also IMF already published 2 years ago how to implement CBDC's with deep negative interest to fight a recession.
The deep negative interest will make that people will flee with their fiat mainly into stocks,real estate etc which bear cycle and CBDC's with negative interest rates will suck out their wealth.

Can't understand that people are still not seeing it how they are being gamed like a herd.
Martin is right there will be solutions found however being able to use in future such solutions will depend on your location and repression you will receive

Furthermore there exists a bunch of hardcore cypherpunks that never quite accepted crypto becoming just another investment asset for Wall St. types.

It's not important what they do.Because you need to pay bills like for food,energy,gas,rental,tax,bills etc and they will dictate which money they will accept and which not.
You will be forced to use their money other way you won't get what you need and they have a monopol.
Its no science to see how farmland,water,goods etc are being more and more centralized and that in a few years local stores will be history in western countries

 

[OTR365]

they will dictate which money they will accept and which not.

That will only create an underground economy, which the state is unable to tax. Also, a hardline approach in one country will create an incentive for other countries to attract crypto capital. Some of those 3rd world shitholes don't have a lot to lose, so they will try crypto. Even Iran is putting last touches on its new crypto law, allowing foreign trade to be settled in crypto.

The genie is out of the bottle, nobody can put it back. Suppressing it will only drive it underground, where it will develop new tools and directions the states like even less, but are unable to fight.

 

[369]

You still live in an ilusion thinking iran etc are not coworking with them.
Lets assume you live in germany and need to pay your elecritcity bill,monthly rent,goods from a discounter (maybe online one) ,gas etc
from who are you going to get the governmental CBDC's ?
It ilussional thinking just because you have a system its going to work.
There was the nice fully decentralized project called bitshares it was CMC top 3 and it went now to 450 with liquidity nearly zero.
What happened ?
There was no money flowing and in crypto people are controlled by greed.
Since bitshares had no goods to back it up it was totaly inactractiv and people went to centralized systems.
Thats how any true decentralized system is going end in western countries or do you belive someone is going to send you food from a trier 2/3 country ?

 

[KJK]

CBDC is a joke and I'd consider it offensive to the idea of peer-to-peer cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin.

Until 1989, Europe was divided into two parts - the socialist part (Eastern Bloc) and the capitalist part (Western Europe). In the Eastern Bloc, domestic currencies were heavily regulated, there was a fixed (unfair) rate set, people weren't allowed to hold foreign currencies and if you wanted to buy some, you needed to have a proven reason and a permission. From time to time, the population was ripped off by a monetary reform (you get 1 new unit for 10 old units).

However, guess what? Foreign currencies (and stuff like art, gold, jewellery) still existed inside of socialist countries and you could get it if you knew where to look for. People were exchanging foreign currencies for street rates instead of the official ones - it was prohibited but still present.

In the end it all comes down to a single question - how is a law enforceable? Is intellectual property enforceable? Not really. Is a ban on drugs enforceable? Experience would say no (but states still try).

Gray and black economy will always exist, methods to avoid the state will always exist. In the past it was perhaps exchanging US dollar and German marks banknotes illegally on streetcorners; now it will be using Bitcoin and decentralized stablecoins despite the government telling you you must use Euro e-coin for everything.

 

[369]

CBDC is a joke and I'd consider it offensive to the idea of peer-to-peer cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin.

Until 1989, Europe was divided into two parts - the socialist part (Eastern Bloc) and the capitalist part (Western Europe). In the Eastern Bloc, domestic currencies were heavily regulated, there was a fixed (unfair) rate set, people weren't allowed to hold foreign currencies and if you wanted to buy some, you needed to have a proven reason and a permission. From time to time, the population was ripped off by a monetary reform (you get 1 new unit for 10 old units).

However, guess what? Foreign currencies (and stuff like art, gold, jewellery) still existed inside of socialist countries and you could get it if you knew where to look for. People were exchanging foreign currencies for street rates instead of the official ones - it was prohibited but still present.

In the end it all comes down to a single question - how is a law enforceable? Is intellectual property enforceable? Not really. Is a ban on drugs enforceable? Experience would say no (but states still try).

Gray and black economy will always exist, methods to avoid the state will always exist. In the past it was perhaps exchanging US dollar and German marks banknotes illegally on streetcorners; now it will be using Bitcoin and decentralized stablecoins despite the government telling you you must use Euro e-coin for everything.

bitcoin is their baby which they hold majority of coins.
Don't get fooled in the end.......its a marketing gag and testnet.
In the end when the final CBDC's will be out bitcoin will have not much value left.Remember they ALWAYS push the market up before the masses join and dump on them

 

[Martin Everson]

Can't understand that people are still not seeing it how they are being gamed like a herd.

Your 100% right.

I said it before on here. People are sleep walking into adoption of crypto. Once government, central banks and major companies adopt crypto then it was always part of the grand design sadly .

P.S Crypto proliferation has almost been like a covert grass roots orchestrated Arab Spring on steriods to move the populous towards a new financial system and end goal. Once adoption of crypto reaches a critical mass a lot of what exists today will disappear in favor of government controlled crypto. They just need more people to get comfortable with the idea of owning digital assets and in effect owning nothing of real substance .

P.S Right now that plan is actually working.