European Central Bank raises interest rates for first time in 11 years

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void

Entrepreneur
If Italy goes back to our old currency will become a new Argentina, the euro was really good for us; joining made us save billions and billions of interests on our huge debt, and the euro saved our *** at least two times.

If southern Europe and Italy, in particular, have economic problems, it's the politicians' fault, not the euro, as I said; it's actually the contrary.

Greece falsified public accounts after they waste billions on ridiculous pensions; if they weren't in the euro, it would have been much, much worse.

But I partially agree we, Italians, don't deserve the privilege to use the euro, at least as long as we keep throwing public money out of the windows or making debts to gift privileged people.

So as the great Mario Draghi said, the euro is irreversible, and Italy is the last country that can afford to leave the single currency; it would mean an immediate economic collapse, much worse than Greece.
wow, sane Italian :D good for you
 

Ads911

New member
wow, sane Italian :D good for you
Of course, I am ahaha that's why I am interested in leaving this hell as soon as possible.

Our Politicians made resign Mario Draghi the most respected Italian man in the world; during these difficult times, it's crazy!

We are going to get a far-right populist Government, basically a bunch of fascists, and in the coalition, there is SILVIO BERLUSCONI (JESUS CHRIST!). Do you know what he just said? he wants to bring the minimum pension from 500€ to 1000€ ahahah, and how will they get that money?? Obviously, with other debts!

I will not mention the other crazy proposals in the other parties because I am really ashamed.

But you know "ThE PRoBlEm is tHE eURo!!1"‍ let's get back to the Italian Lira so the politicians can print money and buy their voters ahaha

Where are you from, my friend?
 

Golden Fleece

Entrepreneur
If Italy goes back to our old currency will become a new Argentina, the euro was really good for us
If Italy goes back to the Lira, then it might go back to old Italy -- which was quite good. The numbers do not lie. Perhaps you are too young to remember -- or perhaps you have not looked at the data.
Until the early 1990s, Italy enjoyed decades of relatively robust economic growth, during which it managed to catch up with other Eurozone nations in income (per person) (Figure 1). In 1960, Italy’s per capita GDP (at constant 2010 prices) was 85% of French per capita GDP and 74% of (weighted average) per capita GDP in Belgium, France, Germany and the Netherlands (the Euro-4 economies). By the mid-1990s, Italy had almost caught up with France (Italian GDP per person equaled 97% of French per capita income) and also with the Euro-4 (Italian GDP per capita was 94% of per capita GDP in the Euro-4).
It is not a coincidence that the sudden reversal of Italy’s economic fortunes occurred after Italy’s adoption of the “legal and policy superstructure” imposed by the Maastricht Treaty of 1992, which cleared the road for the establishment of the EMU in 1999 and the introduction of the common currency in 2002.
 

Ads911

New member
If Italy goes back to the Lira, then it might go back to old Italy -- which was quite good. The numbers do not lie. Perhaps you are too young to remember -- or perhaps you have not looked at the data.


ahhaahahah old Italy was good?? I am Italian. I know EVERYTHING about my economy and political history; trust me, you don't know ANY idea of what you are talking about, absolutely zero.

The economic boom we had it wasn't for the lira, and in that boom, our politicians already started to do huge debts, and that's why we are in this situation now!

They used the lira and the Italian central bank as a printing machine creating inflation; with the lira, our debt wouldn't be sustainable today; THESE ARE THE REAL DATA AND FACTS.

When we enter the Euro, we gain massively because our interest rates dropped significantly, but our politicians, instead of doing structural reform (like Germany did), didn't do anything but spend other borrowed money on BS.

if we get back to the lira today, we would collapse instantly, the market wouldn't trust us and our debt would become even more unsustainable, or are you suggesting to monetizing the debt? which is a well know economic and monetary DISASTER.

You need an economic class as soon as possible my friend, but most importantly you should study the economic and political history of Italy something you don't know absolutely anything about.


If Italy goes back to the Lira, then it might go back to old Italy -- which was quite good. The numbers do not lie. Perhaps you are too young to remember -- or perhaps you have not looked at the data.


You sent me a bunch of fake news and garbage, our politicians created our own disaster, and Italy is the only country in the EU that didn't growth in two decades!

Why did everyone else improves and benefit from the Euro but we didn't? why the only nations that had problems are nations full of corrupted politicians, crazy public spending and huge debts?????

if really had analyze the data ( I did more then one time) it's clear where the Italian declined started and for what reason.
 
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Golden Fleece

Entrepreneur
Why did everyone else improves and benefit from the Euro but we didn't?
This comment shows your complete and total ignorance. Greece is once again at the precipice.
The worrying figure has alerted experts, warning another collapse of the Greek economy could bring the whole eurozone down.


Much of Southern Europe has suffered greatly, for decades, by adopting the Euro. But why should I waste my time explaining it to you, especially when you make a comment that is so utterly ignorant?

Perhaps you recall the last Greek financial disaster. This is very basic economics. A currency cannot have multiple masters without causing great harm to some of them.
Basic monetary theory says that when an economy is in a depression as severe as the one in Greece, the solution is aggressive monetary stimulus. So if you wanted to help Greece, you'd want to start printing more money in an effort to lower interest rates, boost demand, and bring down the country's unemployment rate.
On the other hand, if you were just focusing on the German economy, you'd reach the opposite conclusion. Germany's economy is already booming. The economy can't grow much faster than it already is. So more monetary stimulus will just produce inflation. You might even want to cut back to prevent the German economy from overheating.
The problem is that the ECB is responsible for both Greece and Germany — and 17 other countries as well. The right policy for Greece will be a disaster for Germany, and vice versa. Any policy the ECB picks will be either too tight for some European countries or too loose for others.

As long as the European Union remains a loose confederation of independent nations, the euro will be an economic menace. The currency's problems are by no means limited to Greece. Other countries in the Southern Europe, including Spain, Italy, and Portugal, have suffered through years of unnecessarily high unemployment due in part to ECB policies.
 

JackAlabama

Entrepreneur
If Italy goes back to our old currency will become a new Argentina, the euro was really good for us; joining made us save billions and billions of interests on our huge debt, and the euro saved our *** at least two times.

If southern Europe and Italy, in particular, have economic problems, it's the politicians' fault, not the euro, as I said; it's actually the contrary.

Greece falsified public accounts after they waste billions on ridiculous pensions; if they weren't in the euro, it would have been much, much worse.

But I partially agree we, Italians, don't deserve the privilege to use the euro, at least as long as we keep throwing public money out of the windows or making debts to gift privileged people.

So as the great Mario Draghi said, the euro is irreversible, and Italy is the last country that can afford to leave the single currency; it would mean an immediate economic collapse, much worse than Greece.
In theory this is very correct.

But the day to day realistic life looks different and we have 20 years proof of this.
Italy needs a weak currency which can be devalued (inflated). This makes their export highly competitive as its price would be not much above Southeast asian exports (which have 0 brand value) and the tourism sector would boom since its cheap for usd/euro holders.

It would have much much better economic activity.

When I travel to Italy today, I see shops and friends closing left and right which makes my heart bleed. The internal devaluation due to too strong euro (and too weak euro for Germany) crashes the economy.
The euro is only good for Italian pensioners and fixed income holders but it completely crashes the youth which are emigrating.

The euro is a complete fail, too strong for the euro south and too weak for the euro north. A corset which fits no one.
 

void

Entrepreneur
there are more than to options (inflating/inflatable EUR controlled by continental mafia or inflating/inflatable lira controlled by local mafia)
 

Ads911

New member
In theory this is very correct.

But the day to day realistic life looks different and we have 20 years proof of this.
Italy needs a weak currency which can be devalued (inflated). This makes their export highly competitive as its price would be not much above Southeast asian exports (which have 0 brand value) and the tourism sector would boom since its cheap for usd/euro holders.

It would have much much better economic activity.

When I travel to Italy today, I see shops and friends closing left and right which makes my heart bleed. The internal devaluation due to too strong euro (and too weak euro for Germany) crashes the economy.
The euro is only good for Italian pensioners and fixed income holders but it completely crashes the youth which are emigrating.

The euro is a complete fail, too strong for the euro south and too weak for the euro north. A corset which fits no one.
You don't know what you are talking about as well; what do you suggest would kill the salaries and purchasing power of families, we import basically everything, like energy, etc...

The Euro is not a failure; the southern economies are, especially Italy.

The Euro is not the reason some economies have problems in Europe.

What did you think before writing these jokes? The euro too weak for Germany? Based on your logic, it should be ok since Germany exports a lot as well Ahah.

After this message, I will not answer to any of this nonsense, you are all repeating garbage and propaganda, and most importantly, you are suggesting stupid and simplistic solutions (fantasies) that would literally cause an economic disaster as it happens periodically in any south America failed state!

You seriously need some economic classes., all your arguments are not only based on really wrong and debunked economic principles but even worse based on a mentality where you always see an external factor to blame in a failure.

For example:

The economy of Italy is bad not because our politicians keep increasing the debt to throw money out of the window, and because they don't want to do structural reforms to increase productivity (THE ONLY WAY AN ECONOMY CAN GROWTH AND PROSPER) but it's obviously fault of the Euro or the EU right?? ahahah

Same thing with Greece, they didn't fail because they weren't able to manage public money or because they wasted resources to gift the voters, but also there it was fault of the Euro, the EU, Germany and Mario Draghi right? ahahah hilarious.

When you can't repay the debt you did with your bank because you spent that money on hookers will you tell them that it is fault of the euro? what economic fantasies would you use to justify your inefficiency?
 

JackAlabama

Entrepreneur
You don't know what you are talking about as well; what do you suggest would kill the salaries and purchasing power of families, we import basically everything, like energy, etc...

The Euro is not a failure; the southern economies are, especially Italy.

The Euro is not the reason some economies have problems in Europe.

What did you think before writing these jokes? The euro too weak for Germany? Based on your logic, it should be ok since Germany exports a lot as well Ahah.

After this message, I will not answer to any of this nonsense, you are all repeating garbage and propaganda, and most importantly, you are suggesting stupid and simplistic solutions (fantasies) that would literally cause an economic disaster as it happens periodically in any south America failed state!

You seriously need some economic classes., all your arguments are not only based on really wrong and debunked economic principles but even worse based on a mentality where you always see an external factor to blame in a failure.

For example:

The economy of Italy is bad not because our politicians keep increasing the debt to throw money out of the window, and because they don't want to do structural reforms to increase productivity (THE ONLY WAY AN ECONOMY CAN GROWTH AND PROSPER) but it's obviously fault of the Euro or the EU right?? ahahah

Same thing with Greece, they didn't fail because they weren't able to manage public money or because they wasted resources to gift the voters, but also there it was fault of the Euro, the EU, Germany and Mario Draghi right? ahahah hilarious.

When you can't repay the debt you did with your bank because you spent that money on hookers will you tell them that it is fault of the euro? what economic fantasies would you use to justify your inefficiency?
The Euro has a bad design due to its debt markets which is different from the USA. Their debt markets are not impacted by internal capital flows from weak to strong states.
The interest rate is too low for Italy (borrow too much) and too high (borrow too low) for Germany, adversely affecting each of these in their own way.

Don't be so angry mr. internet hero economist. Come out of your moms basement and learn about currency baskets of heterogeneous economies.
 

Ads911

New member
The Euro has a bad design due to its debt markets which is different from the USA. Their debt markets are not impacted by internal capital flows from weak to strong states.
The interest rate is too low for Italy (borrow too much) and too high (borrow too low) for Germany, adversely affecting each of these in their own way.

Don't be so angry mr. internet hero economist. Come out of your moms basement and learn about currency baskets of heterogeneous economies.
Unbelievable, you showed again and even more your ignorance who doesn't have any idea of what he is talking about; I think you are the one who should study instead of repeating garbage...

Do you realize the absurdity you just said?

I am not angry at all; I just disrespect complete ignorant like you who have the courage to act like a smartass without even realizing how stupid they look...

My mom's basement? you are so desperate, so you try to offend me with random accusations?

Sure, you are right!
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
Ok guys keep it civil please thu&¤#.
 

Ads911

New member
The Euro has a bad design due to its debt markets which is different from the USA. Their debt markets are not impacted by internal capital flows from weak to strong states.
The interest rate is too low for Italy (borrow too much) and too high (borrow too low) for Germany, adversely affecting each of these in their own way.

Don't be so angry mr. internet hero economist. Come out of your moms basement and learn about currency baskets of heterogeneous economies.
And even more important don't talk about Italy if you don't have any knowledge of our country's economy and history, first of all, if you see that some of your friends are closing their business is a subjective observation, nothing to do with economic studies or statistics, maybe your friends are going out of business because they aren't that good...

Second, saying that is the fault of the euro or the currency in general shows how your knowledge of the economy is completely inaccurate...

Young people struggle here not because of the euro, but because of our public spending!

I will repeat the facts AGAIN, the only way an economy can grow and prosper in the long run is an increase in productivity and production; that's it! Nothing to do with your fantasies of currency manipulation or killing the purchasing power and salaries (already low) of families, to favor the export ( export, in general, has grown massively also because of the EU) even worse with the monetization of our debt .

Italy didn't do any reforms in the last 30 years, Germany did, and they grew a lot. Also, other countries did; Italy is the only country in the Eurozone that hadn't been growing, AT ALL, in the last 20 years!

While also Portugal, Spain, and Cyprus too increased their economy, or should we talk about Ireland, which was a member of the PIIGS and now is the fastest growing economy in the EU.

Italy and Greece are the only cancers in the Eurozone, and they share similar "qualities" both countries used their borrowed money to increase pensions or send people to retirement after 20 years of social security contributions!

Our social security system is so fucked up that can't even pay the current pensions, and it takes money from our general taxation!

Do you know what the last populist government did with their last economic measures in 2019?? They borrowed money, AGAIN, to send a bunch of people into early retirement (mainly public employees) when we already have a fucked up social security system! and then they create a citizenship income (with borrowed money!) thinking that giving a tip to people who don't work was a good idea, guess what happened? People who receive this income don't want to work, or they work without contracts, so they get this income plus their salary!

This is basically the history of every Italian government; it's just an example to summarize our fucked up situation, zero reforms to increase productivity or production, ZERO INVESTMENT in YOUG PEOPLE, education, OR active labor market policies, ZERO ZERO ZERO.

Italy gain massively from the EU and the Euro, borrowing costs in general, and the interest rates on our debt decreased a lot; thanks to this decrease; Italy has gained almost 500 BILLIONS OF EURO; just imagine if our governments started to do structural reforms after joining the Euro like when Germany did, by now, we would probably be the second biggest economy in EU and much more richer.

But facts showed that they didn't, and now we face the consequences.

This is the difference between you and me; I talk with facts and with a deep knowledge of our economic history and situation, explaining everything in detail; you are only good at repeating economic slogans without any substance or analyzing a country's economy, taking into account one single element (in this case the Euro) or telling me that your friends are closing their business and it's the fault of the currency ahahah.

Ok guys keep it civil please thu&¤#.
You are right sorry, but this guy can't keep up with the debate, because he doesn't know anything about economy or even worse about the Italian economic situation and history, so he tries to offend me by telling me that I live in my mom's basement
 
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Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
which ignore button? is this a premium feature?

No. Hoover your mouse over name of person you want to ignore and ignore button will appear :D.
 

TheCryptoAnt

New member
Tell me you have no idea how public spending and debt works without...
well actually telling me how

Totally forgot its summer break
 
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