Guernsey company formation provider

[baltic7]

I am looking for a provider for company formation in Guernsey, I searched the forum for information but found nothing.

Can anyone recommend a good provider? Not a reseller as I need to create substance in Guernsey with a local manager and a full time employee.

I take advantage of the same thread to ask, will it be easy to hire an IT employee in Guernsey? Even if necessary, I could send him there from outside, assuming his accommodation costs + salary. There don't seem to be too many unemployed people in Guernsey, especially in the IT sector, so being able to hire someone from the UK/EU would be interesting.

 

[alley]

https://www.applebyglobal.com/locations/guernsey/
They have been recommend a lot of times already here on the forum

 

[Sols]

Nearly all the usual suspects are there: Mourant, Dixcart (Alliott), Vistra, Sovereign, Trident, TMF, Carey Olsen, Ogier, Appleby.

I take advantage of the same thread to ask, will it be easy to hire an IT employee in Guernsey? Even if necessary, I could send him there from outside, assuming his accommodation costs + salary. There don't seem to be too many unemployed people in Guernsey, especially in the IT sector, so being able to hire someone from the UK/EU would be interesting.

No, it will not be easy (but not impossible). The local talent pool is small and immigration is quite a pain.

 

[baltic7]

https://www.applebyglobal.com/locations/guernsey/
They have been recommend a lot of times already here on the forum

Thanks for the info. I will check them

Nearly all the usual suspects are there: Mourant, Dixcart (Alliott), Vistra, Sovereign, Trident, TMF, Carey Olsen, Ogier, Appleby.


No, it will not be easy (but not impossible). The local talent pool is small and immigration is quite a pain.

Thanks for the response @Sols

Any recommendations among those providers that you have personal experience with? I suppose they are all trustworthy, but specifically is there one better than the other?

Regarding the employee, I guess the difficult thing is the immigration process from what I understand.

To create substance, could that person work remotely? That is, having an employment contract and being registered as an employee in Guernsey, but working remotely.

I suppose as long as the director is local, there is an office and an employment contract in Guernsey for that IT person, I suppose that will be enough substance. Am i right?

 

[Sols]

Any recommendations among those providers that you have personal experience with? I suppose they are all trustworthy, but specifically is there one better than the other?

Different providers for different use cases. Dixcart, Mourtant, TMF, and Vistra might a good shortlist for your project here.

Regarding the employee, I guess the difficult thing is the immigration process from what I understand.

The difficulty is also in that the local talent pool is very small and very limited. With a tiny job market, those with skills often move to UK or work remotely.

To create substance, could that person work remotely? That is, having an employment contract and being registered as an employee in Guernsey, but working remotely.

I suppose as long as the director is local, there is an office and an employment contract in Guernsey for that IT person, I suppose that will be enough substance. Am i right?

Depends on how hostile the counterparty is. An employee and a nominee director will satisfy some requirements. But if someone is very hostile and trying to enforce draconian tax laws (think Germany, Finland, similar), they can claim the nominee is a sham and that the employee doesn't control the company, so you're not establishing sufficient substance.

You'd satisfy the requirements in Guernsey, though.

 

[daniels27]

What is business activity?

 

[baltic7]

Different providers for different use cases. Dixcart, Mourtant, TMF, and Vistra might a good shortlist for your project here.


The difficulty is also in that the local talent pool is very small and very limited. With a tiny job market, those with skills often move to UK or work remotely.


Depends on how hostile the counterparty is. An employee and a nominee director will satisfy some requirements. But if someone is very hostile and trying to enforce draconian tax laws (think Germany, Finland, similar), they can claim the nominee is a sham and that the employee doesn't control the company, so you're not establishing sufficient substance.

You'd satisfy the requirements in Guernsey, though.

Thanks for your response @Sols

The company currently operates with 2 IT people and me as director, in Estonia.

As the intellectual property and trademark rights are held by a US LLC, the idea is to make this Guernsey company the permanent establishment. I mean, making US LLC a subsidiary of Guernsey company.

Using the director in Guernsey, who with simple instructions can manage the company in terms of payments to suppliers, salary payments, etc...

Once the entire system and business model is in place, no further decisions need to be made. In fact, any decision he may make in the future with the company can only be seen as "advice" from the shareholder to the director.

If, in the future, I individually make improvements or new implementations in the business that I want to incorporate, they can simply be seen as an in-kind contribution to the company. Just as if as a shareholder you injected personal capital into the business.

In other words, the director would know perfectly well what business management is like when faced with any question.

Regarding IT employees, I currently have 2. The company could also function with only 1. But 2 could be hired if they can work remotely from another location.

The customer support service is outsourced to another company, because it is done by email and the instructions are very basic.

I understand that even in an aggressive jurisdiction, the system should not be a problem, because it is a fully online subscription-based service.

In any case, the jurisdiction is not aggressive regarding taxes, since it is Monaco. Which even has a double tax treaty with Guernsey. From what I understand that since there is a double tax treaty, dividends are not received from a blacklisted jurisdiction.

In the unlikely event that I receive a refusal from the Monaco banks to open an account and obtain the letter of recommendation to apply for residency, the alternative would be non-dom in Cyprus. Which also has a double tax treaty with Guernsey. And pay the 2.65% in GESY.

How do you see the configuration? Does it make sense and can it work?

 

[daniels27]

Can anyone recommend a good provider? Not a reseller as I need to create substance in Guernsey with a local manager and a full time employee.

In Guernsey, there is a difference between local and non-local companies. If you have a local director, you have much more options in terms of service providers.

https://www.applebyglobal.com/locations/guernsey/
They have been recommend a lot of times already here on the forum

They are a reseller. Not what OP was asking for.

As the intellectual property and trademark rights are held by a US LLC, the idea is to make this Guernsey company the permanent establishment. I mean, making US LLC a subsidiary of Guernsey company.

Using the director in Guernsey, who with simple instructions can manage the company in terms of payments to suppliers, salary payments, etc...

Yes, make sure you either have economic substance or you actively trade with the company. Pure equity holding companies without economic substance are sanctioned.

Once the entire system and business model is in place, no further decisions need to be made. In fact, any decision he may make in the future with the company can only be seen as "advice" from the shareholder to the director.

Regarding IT employees, I currently have 2. The company could also function with only 1. But 2 could be hired if they can work remotely from another location.

Please note that the Guernsey resident must not be a recipient of dividends / owner of the company. Otherwise you will be taxed 20% on dividends pay out to him and his share of distributable profit.

Please note that as mentioned above it is difficult to get work permission in Guernsey, in particular for non UK staff.

You may consider using a CSP which offers management of the company.

In any case, the jurisdiction is not aggressive regarding taxes, since it is Monaco. Which even has a double tax treaty with Guernsey. From what I understand that since there is a double tax treaty, dividends are not received from a blacklisted jurisdiction.

In the unlikely event that I receive a refusal from the Monaco banks to open an account and obtain the letter of recommendation to apply for residency, the alternative would be non-dom in Cyprus. Which also has a double tax treaty with Guernsey. And pay the 2.65% in GESY.

How do you see the configuration? Does it make sense and can it work?

Yes, this could work. But it is a mere question on the Monaco / Cyprus side. Please check and read the guidelines in order to get the tax residence certificate:
https://www.gov.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=150213&p=0

I am looking for a provider for company formation in Guernsey, I searched the forum for information but found nothing.

The list of CSP is on the website. I messaged and called all of them recently. The biggest part of them are only doing passive business, i.e. equity holding. Then, there are some, that take on companies that they manage. Then, there are very few which are open to self-managed companies. In order to help here, we need to know
- Do you want to provide your own resident director (in which case you only need a Company Formation Agent, not a CSP)
- If you do not have a local resident director, you will need a CSP, and then, the question is whether you want to manage the company yourself or you want them to do it.
Please comment.

Please also note that the annul accounts need to be prepared signed by a CPA. There is no external audit, but you need a qualified person to sign them. If plan to manage it yourself, who have you planned to use to prepare the books?

 

[uplana]

I am looking for a provider for company formation in Guernsey, I searched the forum for information but found nothing.

If you can't find what you are looking for with the internal search function you always use Google like below and you will find most often a hit for almost anything you are searching for on OCT.

In google enter below string:
site:offshorecorptalk.com guernsey company formation

And if you look below this thread you can find SIMILAR THREADS where I right now see 5 hits

It is just a hint for you to get faster information.

 

[baltic7]

In Guernsey, there is a difference between local and non-local companies. If you have a local director, you have much more options in terms of service providers.


They are a reseller. Not what OP was asking for.


Yes, make sure you either have economic substance or you actively trade with the company. Pure equity holding companies without economic substance are sanctioned.



Please note that the Guernsey resident must not be a recipient of dividends / owner of the company. Otherwise you will be taxed 20% on dividends pay out to him and his share of distributable profit.

Please note that as mentioned above it is difficult to get work permission in Guernsey, in particular for non UK staff.

You may consider using a CSP which offers management of the company.


Yes, this could work. But it is a mere question on the Monaco / Cyprus side. Please check and read the guidelines in order to get the tax residence certificate:
https://www.gov.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=150213&p=0


The list of CSP is on the website. I messaged and called all of them recently. The biggest part of them are only doing passive business, i.e. equity holding. Then, there are some, that take on companies that they manage. Then, there are very few which are open to self-managed companies. In order to help here, we need to know
- Do you want to provide your own resident director (in which case you only need a Company Formation Agent, not a CSP)
- If you do not have a local resident director, you will need a CSP, and then, the question is whether you want to manage the company yourself or you want them to do it.
Please comment.

Please also note that the annul accounts need to be prepared signed by a CPA. There is no external audit, but you need a qualified person to sign them. If plan to manage it yourself, who have you planned to use to prepare the books?

Thanks for you answer @daniels27

Unfortunately, I have just had several calls throughout the morning with Guernsey suppliers and I am not convinced as a jurisdiction.

It can be useful for some situations, but for use as an operating company it is not very functional.

Little choice and flexibility when using local Guernsey directors.

I think I'll go the Cyprus route, which is easier and 12.5% is always better than 20% in Estonia.

That 7.5% in tax savings is a significant amount. Which makes sense to move.

If you can't find what you are looking for with the internal search function you always use Google like below and you will find most often a hit for almost anything you are searching for on OCT.

In google enter below string:
site:offshorecorptalk.com guernsey company formation

And if you look below this thread you can find SIMILAR THREADS where I right now see 5 hits

It is just a hint for you to get faster information.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I did that search. However, in all threads there is no relevant information.

The most accurate information has been that shown in this thread by the people who participated.

 

[uplana]

https://www.applebyglobal.com/locations/guernsey/
They have been recommend a lot of times already here on the forum

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I did that search. However, in all threads there is no relevant information.

I agree with Alley, you must have missed something if you didn't found and seen the endless posts from @Sols who has mentioned AppleByGlobal among lot's others

 

[baltic7]

I agree with Alley, you must have missed something if you didn't found and seen the endless posts from @Sols who has mentioned AppleByGlobal among lot's others

Well, I really am not able to find those publications. How odd.

Can you provide me with a link to them? I appreciate it.

 

[JohnLocke]

Let me help you both a little:
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...ealth-management-a-few-recommendations.36682/https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...y-jersey-company-formation.35822/#post-195487
And here one of the more trusted providers of Guernsey company formation and accounting services.
https://www.sovereigngroup.com/guernsey/corporate-services/

 

[daniels27]

Unfortunately, I have just had several calls throughout the morning with Guernsey suppliers and I am not convinced as a jurisdiction.

It can be useful for some situations, but for use as an operating company it is not very functional.

Little choice and flexibility when using local Guernsey directors.

I think I'll go the Cyprus route, which is easier and 12.5% is always better than 20% in Estonia.

That 7.5% in tax savings is a significant amount. Which makes sense to move.

Yes, you are quite limited as only a handful of CSP will take you and they want to have insight to prevent the company from being used in an improper way.

However, it still is an additional 12.5% saving if you can show management on the island. In which case all the registration becomes much easier as you don't need the CSP anymore, btw.

 

[ilke]

I think I'll go the Cyprus route, which is easier and 12.5% is always better than 20% in Estonia.

That 7.5% in tax savings is a significant amount. Which makes sense to move.

Why not just go for a full offshore jurisdiction, like BVI? Vistra are really good with it, specifically.

You will be in Monaco, where creating PE won't be taken into consideration much, and you have the capacity to hire employees; I don't see a reason why you would still go for a taxed jurisdiction. It seems you don't need the EEA if you were planning on going for Guernsey.

At the scale you discussed in the Monaco thread, you would not have issues getting EU banking (LU, most likely) for such a company, irrespective of the fact it is in an offshore jurisdiction. Or set up an EU payment agent (for example, in Cyprus, as you considered). With properly structured agreements that some lawyers can arrange, the Cyprus company would be a subsidiary, receive the funds and distribute them to the parent company. There is no UBO register there at the moment, either. The Cyprus company could keep below industry standard, like a 1.5% processing fee, and that would be the only tax liable activity. I don't know exactly the employment setups you are looking for, though. Just feel it's a waste to pay 12.5% if you're also putting in the extra amount to live in a jurisdiction with 0% personal income tax.

 

[bountymounty]

They are a reseller. Not what OP was asking for.

I have read many of your aggressive comments, which consist of hot air and no evidence or follow-up. You always have an answer to the charge, and your opinion is the only correct one.

Then come up with a suggestion for who it should be since you know better.

We are not in a guessing competition.

 

[Sols]

I'm not sure Appleby is a reseller in Guernsey. Even if they don't have in-house CSP and work with an external firm for incorporation, they are a well-known, reputable law firm, member of the Guernsey Bar Association (Guernsey Law Firms | Guernsey Bar - Barreau de Guernsey), and a licensed as a CSP or member of the bar in many other places.

The main concern with Appleby — in this context and others like it — is they are phasing out what is left of their SME clientele to focus on large corporates and UHNWIs.

 

[baltic7]

Let me help you both a little:
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...ealth-management-a-few-recommendations.36682/https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...y-jersey-company-formation.35822/#post-195487
And here one of the more trusted providers of Guernsey company formation and accounting services.
https://www.sovereigngroup.com/guernsey/corporate-services/

Thanks for help @JohnLocke

I am in contact with 3 companies that @Sols suggested. I hope they can propose something for my business.

Yes, you are quite limited as only a handful of CSP will take you and they want to have insight to prevent the company from being used in an improper way.

However, it still is an additional 12.5% saving if you can show management on the island. In which case all the registration becomes much easier as you don't need the CSP anymore, btw.

I said that Cyprus will be the last option, in the case that the structure in Guernsey will be useless.

Why not just go for a full offshore jurisdiction, like BVI? Vistra are really good with it, specifically.

You will be in Monaco, where creating PE won't be taken into consideration much, and you have the capacity to hire employees; I don't see a reason why you would still go for a taxed jurisdiction. It seems you don't need the EEA if you were planning on going for Guernsey.

At the scale you discussed in the Monaco thread, you would not have issues getting EU banking (LU, most likely) for such a company, irrespective of the fact it is in an offshore jurisdiction. Or set up an EU payment agent (for example, in Cyprus, as you considered). With properly structured agreements that some lawyers can arrange, the Cyprus company would be a subsidiary, receive the funds and distribute them to the parent company. There is no UBO register there at the moment, either. The Cyprus company could keep below industry standard, like a 1.5% processing fee, and that would be the only tax liable activity. I don't know exactly the employment setups you are looking for, though. Just feel it's a waste to pay 12.5% if you're also putting in the extra amount to live in a jurisdiction with 0% personal income tax.

Hello @ilke I really appreacite your advice.

I mean, that Cyprus will be the last option in the case that Monaco + Offshore Company with US LLC be useless.

Of course, the first option is Monaco. But I really don't want to generate structure in a country with few DTAs. Guernsey looks great because has DTAs with Monaco, Cyprus and european jurisdictions where i can go to live for low taxes as residency.

Do u think that i can use LU banks with a company in BVI? The minimun capital for open isn't a problem if they ask for something between 100k-1M, but i don't have experience with LU banks. I know that a lot of investment companies there to pay 1%, but i really zero experience in the country with banks.

I'm not sure Appleby is a reseller in Guernsey. Even if they don't have in-house CSP and work with an external firm for incorporation, they are a well-known, reputable law firm, member of the Guernsey Bar Association (Guernsey Law Firms | Guernsey Bar - Barreau de Guernsey), and a licensed as a CSP or member of the bar in many other places.

The main concern with Appleby — in this context and others like it — is they are phasing out what is left of their SME clientele to focus on large corporates and UHNWIs.

This is true. If they are reputable company and provide a good service, then not is a problem if they are resellers.

Just personally I try to avoid to use reseller because bad experience in the past, but If they are reputable then isn't a problem. I also can have problems with a local firm if they aren't professionals.

 

[Armani]

Baltic, may i ask you what services you sell and where are locate your customers?

 

[baltic7]

Baltic, may i ask you what services you sell and where are locate your customers?

Mostly EU countries. SaaS.