How is CFC detected?

[omaozeko]

Hi,

I'm trying to understand how CFC is detected. Is there an exchange mechanism CRS type where information is sent abroad between countries or some sort of detection off public registries? Or is there no detection mechanism per say but it's simply a rule that shape what taxes need to be paid?

Thank you

 

[avalanche]

Hi,

I'm trying to understand how CFC is detected. Is there an exchange mechanism CRS type where information is sent abroad between countries or some sort of detection off public registries? Or is there no detection mechanism per say but it's simply a rule that shape what taxes need to be paid?

Thank you

Probably just banks asking for UBO and reporting on them. (not sure)

 

[Sir Gelato]

Hi,

I'm trying to understand how CFC is detected. Is there an exchange mechanism CRS type where information is sent abroad between countries or some sort of detection off public registries? Or is there no detection mechanism per say but it's simply a rule that shape what taxes need to be paid?

Thank you

It is an exchange info system, but every country has their own. Made for detect funds that go from onshore to offshore, the ubos behind the offshore corporations and block funds in case of tax evasion.
There are many benefits depending on nature of your business, that exempt you to pay some kind of taxes( not sure at all).
Even though it is not as common as crs.

 

[blockchain4ever]

Hi,

I'm trying to understand how CFC is detected. Is there an exchange mechanism CRS type where information is sent abroad between countries or some sort of detection off public registries? Or is there no detection mechanism per say but it's simply a rule that shape what taxes need to be paid?

Thank you

Two compliance things have been forced upon the tax havens and the banks: a public company registry, and CRS from the bank you use for your company.

 

[Konstanz]

I would not rely on naive hopes to avoid CRS. More and more countries join CRS. Also CRS reporting is quite tricky and change by country to country and bank itself. So, it's better to structure that way you don't need to worry about CRS

 

[Martin Everson]

I'm trying to understand how CFC is detected. Is there an exchange mechanism CRS type where information is sent abroad between countries or some sort of detection off public registries? Or is there no detection mechanism per say but it's simply a rule that shape what taxes need to be paid?

Well with EU DAC6 that came into force yesterday it has become a lot easier.

https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...eporting-comes-into-effect-1-july-2020.29711/

 

[sargentshallots]

Hi,

I'm trying to understand how CFC is detected. Is there an exchange mechanism CRS type where information is sent abroad between countries or some sort of detection off public registries? Or is there no detection mechanism per say but it's simply a rule that shape what taxes need to be paid?

Thank you

Thanks for creating this thread. This is exactly the question I have in my mind. Does anyone in this forum have first hand experience with CFC rule violations? How strictly are tax authorities going after owners and how are they getting tipped off?

Well with EU DAC6 that came into force yesterday it has become a lot easier.

https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...eporting-comes-into-effect-1-july-2020.29711/

Okay so if I understand correctly: Each EU country is supposed to create laws (the point of an EU directive) that force both people who help create these tax advantaged structures (lawyers, accountants etc.) and the people who are the owners of these structures to report their information to the tax office of where they are a tax resident. So snitching on themselves and their offshore companies.

Let's say a citizen of one of the Benelux countries, living in Italy, and creates a micro-company in Romania. The business is e-commerce, shipping from China to US. So nothing gets in or out of Romania or the EU for that matter. The company owners will move to Romania (and become a tax resident) within 6 months, should they be worried about any CFC violations in the meantime?

Like are there thresholds for these kinds of situations, do they care about small fish? An accountant in Romania basically said "Romanian government doesn't care, why would they report someone to Italy? They want their tax money" when asked about CFC.

So I'm guessing the incentive would be on the country where the company owners are a tax resident in (since they would be losing potential tax revenue). So if living in Italy, the Italian tax authorities would start an investigation/audit, right?

I don't know if there is a reason to be concerned and how paranoid one should be.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

A lot of people get this wrong: CFC rules are rarely an issue for someone with an operative business. For example, the Italian CFC rules only apply to businesses that derive at least 1/3 of their revenue from passive income (like dividends, royalties, interest, ...). So if you have a dropshipping business, if will NOT be affected by the Italian CFC rules AT ALL.
If I understood it correctly, the Italian CFC rules also only apply when it’s a company that holds the shares of the CFC, not when it’s an individual.
I really don’t know where this obsession with CFC rules come from. For most people on this forum, they aren’t a problem at all.

Does that mean you are off the hook? No.
Because if you run your business from Italy, there would be a permanent establishment. Permanent establishment rules are what people in this forum should be worried about, not CFC rules.
However, the first part of “PE” is “permanent”, which usually means it must exist for at least 12 months. Also I doubt that any data about company formations is exchanged upon incorporation. I would assume that such data is exchanged at the end of the year, like with CRS. But I don’t know for sure.
I personally wouldn’t worry about such a structure if one only moves from one EU country to another within a few months.
With moving out of the EU, it could be a different story due to exit tax.

 

[sargentshallots]

A lot of people get this wrong: CFC rules are rarely an issue for someone with an operative business. For example, the Italian CFC rules only apply to businesses that derive at least 1/3 of their revenue from passive income (like dividends, royalties, interest, ...). So if you have a dropshipping business, if will NOT be affected by the Italian CFC rules AT ALL.
If I understood it correctly, the Italian CFC rules also only apply when it’s a company that holds the shares of the CFC, not when it’s an individual.
I really don’t know where this obsession with CFC rules come from. For most people on this forum, they aren’t a problem at all.

Thank you so much for chiming in! I read one of your responses in another thread and I actually wanted to ask you directly about this topic. After seeing the page for Poland, I went to find information about Italy in the PWC website and indeed saw that 1/3rd of revenues or higher must come from passive income.

So with that requirement plus the rule talking about companies holding shares rather than individuals pretty much removes any worry about triggering CFC.

I think the reason many of us are worrying about CFC is because not every country calls these rules in the same way (I think some countries have CFC rules being triggered by individuals) AND also because we confuse CFC with permanent establishment, like you mentioned.

Watching the nomad capitalist video once again, he also mentions that some countries call it PE:

So our fear is the same, living in one country and operating a company in another country and getting into trouble with the tax authorities. And we are (mistakenly) labeling it as a CFC rule, when in many cases, it should be PE. I hope that gives others a better overview as well.

Does that mean you are off the hook? No.
Because if you run your business from Italy, there would be a permanent establishment. Permanent establishment rules are what people in this forum should be worried about, not CFC rules.
However, the first part of “PE” is “permanent”, which usually means it must exist for at least 12 months. Also I doubt that any data about company formations is exchanged upon incorporation. I would assume that such data is exchanged at the end of the year, like with CRS. But I don’t know for sure.
I personally wouldn’t worry about such a structure if one only moves from one EU country to another within a few months.
With moving out of the EU, it could be a different story due to exit tax.

I hope so too. there will also be some substance in RO, such as having a physical office and possibly interns working there. But hopefully it should be difficult to prove any wrongdoing in the meantime with the porous borders within the EU.

Eventually we would want to sell the company, but possibly to buyers from the EU. So I will have to find out more about what would cause an exit tax.

Thanks again!

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

CFC is different from PE. Usually countries have rules for both, they are different concepts. CFC rules are basically a protection against classical tax evasion where you admit you have operations in a high-tax country, but you try to shift profits to a low-tax country using intellectual property and stuff like that, everything pretty much only happens on paper. And the government basically just says: “We know what you’re trying to do. Forget about it.”

A PE on the other hand is about where work is done. It doesn’t require management or the shareholders to be physically present.
For example, it could be a Bulgarian company that sends housekeepers to work at different hotels in Italy during the summer season. Even though it’s not the same workers every year and they are only present during 3-4 months, the fact that the company keeps sending people every year could be regarded as “permanent” operations in Italy. The Bulgarian company would then have to pay Italian corporate income taxes for everything related to the operations in Italy. The tax treaty between Italy and Bulgaria would then most likely make sure that the same income wouldn‘t be taxed again in Bulgaria.

Pretty much all countries have PE rules because it’s usually the basis for what corporate income can be taxed. But not all countries have CFC rules.
Some countries have CFC rules that apply to corporations only, others have rules that cover individuals as well. But typically they are only relevant when you try to shift profits using licenses (passive income), stuff like that. When it’s an active business, you would be covered by PE rules anyway.

 

[cyprus123]

I agree with Konstanz. Better accept that CRS is a reality and becoming one in more and more countries. Structure your business and don't worry about CRS.