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I'm confused about corporate banking offshore.
- Thread starter Yitzhak
- Start date
Maybe the key would be finding a place where the tax rate is 1.5% to 3% that has a treaty, so you get to play by the rules and spend next to nothing in taxes? Some of this tax haven stuff scares me a little.
Tax haven is a convulted term which represents a legal fact where a jurisdiction does not apply taxes to a foreign (and sometimes domestic) entity when the revenue comes from outside sources. So unless you are doing business in the country of the "offshore structure / banking location" the Structure is subject to no taxation.
Yitzhak... while a proper and sufficient structure is perfectly legal, legit, and 100% effective and secure... I highly suggest you do not make any decisions if you are not comfortable. Yes it is very scary for the layman who just has a assets/monies he is trying to secure and does not have the legal knowledge to understand the whole.
Suggestion. Work slowly and create the remedy for your identity goal first. Then work from there.
Yitzhak... while a proper and sufficient structure is perfectly legal, legit, and 100% effective and secure... I highly suggest you do not make any decisions if you are not comfortable. Yes it is very scary for the layman who just has a assets/monies he is trying to secure and does not have the legal knowledge to understand the whole.
Suggestion. Work slowly and create the remedy for your identity goal first. Then work from there.
I think, with my specific problem, there are a few ways to solve it.
I would like a nice low tax rate, but what I really need is protection from American patent law. There are guys suing startups out of existence in my industry because of totally bogus IP claims. My thought was that an opaque entity like a Belize IBC would be the way to go. An opaque entity makes finding and suing me very expensive; prohibitively so for a patent troll.
But this stuff is very complex, and I'm not an expert. Maybe hiring an asset protection lawyer would be the way to go about this.
I would like a nice low tax rate, but what I really need is protection from American patent law. There are guys suing startups out of existence in my industry because of totally bogus IP claims. My thought was that an opaque entity like a Belize IBC would be the way to go. An opaque entity makes finding and suing me very expensive; prohibitively so for a patent troll.
But this stuff is very complex, and I'm not an expert. Maybe hiring an asset protection lawyer would be the way to go about this.
Nevis is more expensive than Belize. Belize does have records systems which reveal the owners upon the reception of a court order. In the US a court order and summary judgement is very very easy. Especially if they 'investigators' are part of the 'club'. Nevis, court order or no, has a mandated fee which must be paid to look at the records. Expensive fee. All countries are in the UN and all are interfacing together in international law. Patent/trademark law is unavoidable from any jurisdiction. This is just what big businesses do. Like monsanto, they wipe all alternatives. The Gas companies, wipe out all alternatives. Look at 'cancer' research. There would be an economical collapse if a Agency 'approved' cure for cancer was found, not to mention the highly paid CEO's, non-profit CEO's, etc who would all lose their salaries. The situation occurring from a cure for cancer would be worse than many could imagine. So the question is, do you really think they would allow a cure for cancer, especially when it is so effective at curbing population increase? So many people are stuck in a delusion...
Anyways, just like there are cure for cancers out there, a proper structure has to be setup so the Agencies can not tell them "No you cant do that". The same must be done for companies who have issues with big business bullying them. Just like you astutely identified, you must make it more worthwhile their time to find another ant to fry than you. To do that though is costly on an annual level for renewal/registration fees. You looking at like 3k a year in fees to keep up a 3 Level structure which would make it not worth their time. Unless of course your product actually is violating their IP and you have substatial assets attached to the same entity with the product...
Anyways, just like there are cure for cancers out there, a proper structure has to be setup so the Agencies can not tell them "No you cant do that". The same must be done for companies who have issues with big business bullying them. Just like you astutely identified, you must make it more worthwhile their time to find another ant to fry than you. To do that though is costly on an annual level for renewal/registration fees. You looking at like 3k a year in fees to keep up a 3 Level structure which would make it not worth their time. Unless of course your product actually is violating their IP and you have substatial assets attached to the same entity with the product...
I'm not really worried about the big guys. The big guys like the little guys. Most of them were little guys once too. The big guys troll each other, but they understand that it's to their advantage to leave the little guy alone. It's kind of like an ecosystem, that way.
It's the patent only guys that don't do anything other than litigate as a business model that are cause for concern. Most of them are small time, and don't have a lot of money themselves. Here in US, with the whole "sue regardless of merit, and let the court sort it out later" policy, they're running amok, and killing innovation in technology and software. New software companies are choosing to do business in Europe over the US because of the hostile business conditions. Some areas are hit harder than others.
The trolls in this scenario do it because fleecing Joe's startup is simpler and easier than suing someone like IBM or Google. Little guys settle because they simply don't have litigation budgets.
Even something as simple as incorporating in Mexico or Canada would solve the problem, but I think it makes sense to go the extra mile, so to speak.
Things like holding companies and family trusts scare them, because they don't know if they'll be out matched.
I chose my words poorly.
It's not that I'm trying to escape the bounds of patent law. I love and respect reasonable patents.
I just need to make litigation as inconvenient, and hopefully as expensive for a potential plaintiff as possible.
By the way, your posts are great.
I really appreciate your insights.
It's the patent only guys that don't do anything other than litigate as a business model that are cause for concern. Most of them are small time, and don't have a lot of money themselves. Here in US, with the whole "sue regardless of merit, and let the court sort it out later" policy, they're running amok, and killing innovation in technology and software. New software companies are choosing to do business in Europe over the US because of the hostile business conditions. Some areas are hit harder than others.
The trolls in this scenario do it because fleecing Joe's startup is simpler and easier than suing someone like IBM or Google. Little guys settle because they simply don't have litigation budgets.
Even something as simple as incorporating in Mexico or Canada would solve the problem, but I think it makes sense to go the extra mile, so to speak.
Things like holding companies and family trusts scare them, because they don't know if they'll be out matched.
I chose my words poorly.
It's not that I'm trying to escape the bounds of patent law. I love and respect reasonable patents.
I just need to make litigation as inconvenient, and hopefully as expensive for a potential plaintiff as possible.
By the way, your posts are great.
I really appreciate your insights.
Last edited by a moderator:
There was a pretty big dissent from a Justice published a short while ago which addressed your very concerns. He was in agreement with you. I will see if I can find it again for you.
If you are in the US there are alot of remedies available to "scare off". You need to research UCC1's. It is a paramont claim which supercedes all other claims. In the US it is not 'objective theory' like other jurisdictions. Objective theory is when the justice systems asks You for information and what did you intend, and how you feel, etc. In the US it is "subjective theory" which is all that matters it what is on paper. What is on a contract. All of US law deals in commerce. Commerce is contracts, whether verbal, written, or constructive.
Do the UCC-1 research and you will have at your grasp the remedy which establishes: "only an idiot without a lawyer would ever attempt to sue you", whether you did wrong or not.
Lawsuits boil down to this and only this. What can we sue you for. If you are homeless and broke NO one will sue you. This is why the key to the whole game is retaining POWER, but forfeiting OWNERSHIP. This is called being 'Judgement Proof' On paper you must appear 'homeless and broke' The first thing a lawyer looks for is insurance policies on the person being sued, second assets in US banking systems, and third.. assets in market (real estate, stocks, securities)
The question that should be asked at this point is: "Okay, so I toss all my 'stuff' into a corporation. Wont they just sue the corporation then?"
Yes that is what they would then do. However, if recalled from earlier posts, one would have assets and monies and revenue vehicles all separated in different structures. Now, because you are in the US, you also have at your finger tips UCC-1's which would deter any lawyer, unless of course corporation really did perform an adverse action in which 'big money' is at stake.
In US, steer clear of ALL trusts. The IRS and the commercial Judges pierce them real quick. The trust will work against the leity and the mom and pop who may want to sue you or a angry ex-wife. But if any agency comes knocking, they will "disregard" the trust in a heart beat. This is general advice because 90% "operate" the trust incorrectly.
Piercing the "Corporate Veil" For example, you can have a US LLC ice cream shop. If you never conveyed the shop property to the LLC but let the LLC use the property on returns and then mixed and matched spending records, you used the LLC debit card to buy a new refrigerator for the home, and used your debit card to buy some supplies at office max while in town, BAAM! Grade A "alter-ego" evidence was created. The LLC is "poor" it is only an ice cream shop. You are "wealthy" and just good at starting businesses here and there to rake in dividends. Tomorrow someone is going to be poisoned by the ice cream. They happen to know of your wealth. In the US system of law, because of poor business practices mentioned previouslly establishing "alter-ego" legal facts, that plaintiff will now with good lawyer sue not only the LLC but you because you never really used the LLC as an "LLC" so therefore it is simply a disregarded entity and you and LLC should be treated one and same.
This has happened time and time again. But have no fear. Just as easy as it is to "get away" with anything in US law (yes, the 5K per hour lawyer knows how to get you out of a murder with 50 witnesses) it is just as easy to protect oneself from the chess game of "Law"
Maintain the 3 structure policy (does not include privacy solutions) and use UCC-1's and you are now more judgement proof then most millionaires in the US
And just like you astutely stated. These are all "insights". You are not my client.
If you are in the US there are alot of remedies available to "scare off". You need to research UCC1's. It is a paramont claim which supercedes all other claims. In the US it is not 'objective theory' like other jurisdictions. Objective theory is when the justice systems asks You for information and what did you intend, and how you feel, etc. In the US it is "subjective theory" which is all that matters it what is on paper. What is on a contract. All of US law deals in commerce. Commerce is contracts, whether verbal, written, or constructive.
Do the UCC-1 research and you will have at your grasp the remedy which establishes: "only an idiot without a lawyer would ever attempt to sue you", whether you did wrong or not.
Lawsuits boil down to this and only this. What can we sue you for. If you are homeless and broke NO one will sue you. This is why the key to the whole game is retaining POWER, but forfeiting OWNERSHIP. This is called being 'Judgement Proof' On paper you must appear 'homeless and broke' The first thing a lawyer looks for is insurance policies on the person being sued, second assets in US banking systems, and third.. assets in market (real estate, stocks, securities)
The question that should be asked at this point is: "Okay, so I toss all my 'stuff' into a corporation. Wont they just sue the corporation then?"
Yes that is what they would then do. However, if recalled from earlier posts, one would have assets and monies and revenue vehicles all separated in different structures. Now, because you are in the US, you also have at your finger tips UCC-1's which would deter any lawyer, unless of course corporation really did perform an adverse action in which 'big money' is at stake.
In US, steer clear of ALL trusts. The IRS and the commercial Judges pierce them real quick. The trust will work against the leity and the mom and pop who may want to sue you or a angry ex-wife. But if any agency comes knocking, they will "disregard" the trust in a heart beat. This is general advice because 90% "operate" the trust incorrectly.
Piercing the "Corporate Veil" For example, you can have a US LLC ice cream shop. If you never conveyed the shop property to the LLC but let the LLC use the property on returns and then mixed and matched spending records, you used the LLC debit card to buy a new refrigerator for the home, and used your debit card to buy some supplies at office max while in town, BAAM! Grade A "alter-ego" evidence was created. The LLC is "poor" it is only an ice cream shop. You are "wealthy" and just good at starting businesses here and there to rake in dividends. Tomorrow someone is going to be poisoned by the ice cream. They happen to know of your wealth. In the US system of law, because of poor business practices mentioned previouslly establishing "alter-ego" legal facts, that plaintiff will now with good lawyer sue not only the LLC but you because you never really used the LLC as an "LLC" so therefore it is simply a disregarded entity and you and LLC should be treated one and same.
This has happened time and time again. But have no fear. Just as easy as it is to "get away" with anything in US law (yes, the 5K per hour lawyer knows how to get you out of a murder with 50 witnesses) it is just as easy to protect oneself from the chess game of "Law"
Maintain the 3 structure policy (does not include privacy solutions) and use UCC-1's and you are now more judgement proof then most millionaires in the US
And just like you astutely stated. These are all "insights". You are not my client.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi Admin,
Can you please advise what kind of personal details you are referring too. Their are some banks that I which are very lenient. This is not because they are fraud bank, but mainly because they are small and accept exactly what laws tell them in order not to lose customer.
For example, some banks in Mauritius may accept a corporate company as the Ultimate Beneficial Owners, even if the company is using nominee shareholders and directors
Can you please advise what kind of personal details you are referring too. Their are some banks that I which are very lenient. This is not because they are fraud bank, but mainly because they are small and accept exactly what laws tell them in order not to lose customer.
For example, some banks in Mauritius may accept a corporate company as the Ultimate Beneficial Owners, even if the company is using nominee shareholders and directors
Stephen,
Try other banking jurisdictions besides Mauritius and you will find that it is not a foreign understanding that person other than an individual can lawfully be the UBO
Try other banking jurisdictions besides Mauritius and you will find that it is not a foreign understanding that person other than an individual can lawfully be the UBO
Well, I agree with both of you (TVentures, stephenbestel), however, for many reasons we can't maintain a forum who call on tax evasion and other criminal activity which are some of the only reasons for why people are seeking banks you are referring to here. If someone want to discuss these matters they are welcome to do so, also here on the forum, we won't interfere with peoples opinions but simply don't looking for banks, business partners or offshore jurisdictions which have these two objects as the only reasons to attract new clients. It can be dangerous for all parties involved.
And I repeat, everyone is free to do what ever he/she want to do and feel free to discuss options further but of course we have to say in public that we take distance from doing such:hello:
And I repeat, everyone is free to do what ever he/she want to do and feel free to discuss options further but of course we have to say in public that we take distance from doing such:hello:
I agree to that and I can mentioned a handful (in jurisdictions where we are not operate) who will help you achieve all this but we don't refer any business that way, rest assured! Also for many reasons I will not go and publish the names of these banks here on the forum:embarassed: but don't think that you are the only one who knows about all the other areas of our all's business!stephenbestel said:
Very correct Admin. Unfortunately many dont understand that tax evasion is what happens when people mess up. It is perfectly legal to give ones monies away to another person but retain spending power. People mess up when they blunder the "giving away" portion. I can only contribute it to greed and unwillingness to give up monies. There is probally a certain amount of ignorance there to.
It is what it is.
It is what it is.
Dear Admin,
Very well said. I seek this opportunity to tell you that this websites is incredible and really helps investors
Very well said. I seek this opportunity to tell you that this websites is incredible and really helps investors
Sorry to reopen this thread but there is some useful information some Gold nuggets in here that may interest people.
While I'm at it, OP what setup do you have today would you like to give us a hint?
While I'm at it, OP what setup do you have today would you like to give us a hint?
I am in react of Open bank account without your documents mean needs KYC and ALM, do not waste your time no one bank will open you bank account without proof of your identity and documents, if you want hide your privacy it is solution not only for individuals but also companies to use Bitcoin any company or offshore company can use them as payment solution no control from any country or IRS or FATCA or etc. You can also find a lot of changers and also no name prepeid cards which you can top up by Bitcoin and use fiat money. There is a lot of online companies which will be gald to open account for your swift or sepa or merchant acceptance accounts so just think what you need exactly and use company which offer you all what you needs or start use Bitcoin + No name (Anonymous) MC/Visa/UnionPay Card + Offshore company and All your privacy and business will be safe and hide!
The problem is that not many accept BitCoin and it's complicated and an expensive payment method if you want it to be exchanged into real money!
I agree, for a simple and regular business setup this may be no problem to get an merchant account or other payment method. It's just not anonymous.
Anonymous in my opinion is when nobody knows who what send to whom have jsut like Company IBC send to Company LTD some amount between this 2 companies you can use invocice in bitcoin and it is all legal all cost mean Fiat money to Bitcoin back to fiat money will cost to you 6% from amount, yes it is not cheap but it is still better than to pay much more for opening bank account and transaction, today are a lot of companies and every month there are much more new who start to make business as merchant and they can accept you as a comapny for reatil account to accpet payments from whole the world just think about it and start to be free...there is a lot of words how to do not do something but not to much who just start to do it! I personally know some gays who start selling some product thru amazon and use this kind of accounts and every month transfer money from this account to Bitcoin directly so this is a point to think in future I think blockchain will be more interesting than classic banks it is more faster...today some banks are allready test it and when some sender from Canada send you money to Germany or Japan you get money into 10 min in your account and you can use them immediately can you find same speed in classic bank?!
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