interpol

[donald bathe]

if a hacker who has been using monero or something similar isnt an american citizen and has stolen millions from american banks then how could he be extradited to the u.s. if he´s never stepped foot on u.s. soil then? could an american citizen be extradited from a country which isnt an interpol member? what about if the hackers who has been using monero who isnt an american citizen and who lives in a country where the interpol doesnt have reach like tuvalu has been stealing from american banks, what then? rsvp

 

[Milky Moon]

"Well it depends".

The crime has been comitted in the States (US Banks ...) so the US has jurisdiction for investigating this.

If the hacker is a citizen in a country that has no extradition treaty with the US, the hacker will not be extradited.
If the hacker is a citizen in a country that has an extradition treaty with the, the hacker will be extradited, but special agrangement have to be made, fi after max 2 years the hacker will be returned, any sentence will be executed in the home coutry etc. Depends on the bilateral agreement between home country and the US.
If the hacker is not a citizen in the country where he lives he probably will be extradited.

 

[donald bathe]

ok i will give you a perfect example. the hacker is from a nation that is an interpol member like EL SALVADOR but lives in KIRIBATI which isnt an interpol member nation but hes still a citizen of el salvador and only a legal permanent resident of kiribati, what would happen in that case? rsvp.

"Well it depends".

The crime has been comitted in the States (US Banks ...) so the US has jurisdiction for investigating this.

If the hacker is a citizen in a country that has no extradition treaty with the US, the hacker will not be extradited.
If the hacker is a citizen in a country that has an extradition treaty with the, the hacker will be extradited, but special agrangement have to be made, fi after max 2 years the hacker will be returned, any sentence will be executed in the home coutry etc. Depends on the bilateral agreement between home country and the US.
If the hacker is not a citizen in the country where he lives he probably will be extradited.

ive

 

[donald bathe]

thank you for considering and answering my question. thank you very much!

"Well it depends".

The crime has been comitted in the States (US Banks ...) so the US has jurisdiction for investigating this.

If the hacker is a citizen in a country that has no extradition treaty with the US, the hacker will not be extradited.
If the hacker is a citizen in a country that has an extradition treaty with the, the hacker will be extradited, but special agrangement have to be made, fi after max 2 years the hacker will be returned, any sentence will be executed in the home coutry etc. Depends on the bilateral agreement between home country and the US.
If the hacker is not a citizen in the country where he lives he probably will be extradited.

 

[Milky Moon]

ok i will give you a perfect example. the hacker is from a nation that is an interpol member like EL SALVADOR but lives in KIRIBATI which isnt an interpol member nation but hes still a citizen of el salvador and only a legal permanent resident of kiribati, what would happen in that case? rsvp.

ive

Interpol is of no relevance here. The question is if there is a treaty between Kiribati and the US, and are the crimes extraditable.

http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Kiribati International Extradition Treaty with the United States.pdf

 

[donald bathe]

so basically what youre saying is that the usa has extradition with all countries of the world for hackers? rsvp

Interpol is of no relevance here. The question is if there is a treaty between Kiribati and the US, and are the crimes extraditable.

http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Kiribati International Extradition Treaty with the United States.pdf

 

[donald bathe]

Interpol is of no relevance here. The question is if there is a treaty between Kiribati and the US, and are the crimes extraditable.

http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Kiribati International Extradition Treaty with the United States.pdf

then how do you explain that some hackers are never brought to justice then? rsvp

 

[Milky Moon]

The US has no treaty with for instance Russia (that's why Snowden is there) and with Ecuador (that why Julian Assange is there) and North Korea. Also for instance Germany and Turkey do not extradite its own Citizens.

 

[donald bathe]

on what grounds could the united states extradite a hacker if that hacker stole like 200 million dollars or more from online bank accounts even though that hacker has never stepped foot on u.s. soil then? rsvp

The US has no treaty with for instance Russia (that's why Snowden is there) and with Ecuador (that why Julian Assange is there) and North Korea. Also for instance Germany and Turkey do not extradite its own Citizens.

 

[Milky Moon]

Read for instance https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/file/835061/download

As you see it is totally irrelevant that the hackers never set foot in the US. What is relevant is the damage and acts against US Banks, therefor the US claims jurisdiction as the effects ere felt within its territory. (and a US judge normally will agree)

Please read, Principles of Jurisdiction on the Internet , 'you caused effect'.

 

[Milky Moon]

There are five recognized bases for jurisdiction under international criminal law. The most significant ones are the principles of territoriality and nationality, according to which states have jurisdiction over crimes committed in their territory or by their nationals.

When you hack banks in the US, they can base their jurisdiction on the territoriality principle, which is internationally recognised. Wether or not you are extradited, depends on your nationality and the country you reside in.

 

[donald bathe]

can i ask you something but on a different note? ive noticed that most hackers who steal like 100 million dollars or more usually never live or are located in the following countries, united states canada australia, new zealand, united kingdom, and ireland, why would that be? like 95-99% of the time these guys are living or located in some third world country like eastern europe, africa, the middle east, asia, maybe south america, ect.......... does this consistent pattern mean something to you? someone told me that maybe most hackers convert stolen money into cryptocurrency, List of cryptocurrencies - Wikipedia is it that rich developed first world nations like those six countries specifically mentioned have laws that combat money laundering via cryptocurrencies? rsvp.

There are five recognized bases for jurisdiction under international criminal law. The most significant ones are the principles of territoriality and nationality, according to which states have jurisdiction over crimes committed in their territory or by their nationals.

When you hack banks in the US, they can base their jurisdiction on the territoriality principle, which is internationally recognised. Wether or not you are extradited, depends on your nationality and the country you reside in.

 

[donald bathe]

can i ask you something but on a different note? ive noticed that most hackers who steal like 100 million dollars or more usually never live or are located in the following countries, united states canada australia, new zealand, united kingdom, and ireland, why would that be? like 95-99% of the time these guys are living or located in some third world country like eastern europe, africa, the middle east, asia, maybe south america, ect.......... does this consistent pattern mean something to you? someone told me that maybe most hackers convert stolen money into cryptocurrency, List of cryptocurrencies - Wikipedia is it that rich developed first world nations like those six countries specifically mentioned have laws that combat money laundering via cryptocurrencies? rsvp.

There are five recognized bases for jurisdiction under international criminal law. The most significant ones are the principles of territoriality and nationality, according to which states have jurisdiction over crimes committed in their territory or by their nationals.

When you hack banks in the US, they can base their jurisdiction on the territoriality principle, which is internationally recognised. Wether or not you are extradited, depends on your nationality and the country you reside in.

 

[Milky Moon]

I doubt this is due to the perceived laws. It probably has more to do with education (good) and society (poor), and target (rich banks, poor security).

 

[donald bathe]

but how could money laundering via cryptocurrencies take place like in canada assuming that it even did in your opinion? could someone find a way to funnel dirty money from a third world country to canada or does canada have strict anti money laundering measures to fight it via cryptocurrency like canada revenue agency? rsvp

 

[Milky Moon]

Money laundering takes place mainly via FX not so much via bitcoin.

 

[donald bathe]

but in what way possible, can you be a bit more specific? lets say a hacker in south america stole like 100 or maybe 200 million dollars and converted the
stolen money via cryptocurrency, if they didnt do it this way then how could the launder the money via FX and funnel that money to the u.s. or canada then? rsvp

Money laundering takes place mainly via FX not so much via bitcoin.

 

[Milky Moon]

Well 'stealing' money can be done in several ways. In the earlier days hackers would use SQL injects to update account balances, while money-mules with copies plastic cards would use ATM's to the max to convert that balance in to cash.

The Swift hackers used Casino's to launder part of their money.

Hacking a bank is not easy, the difficult part is how to transfer that money to you. It leaves digital fingerprints. And in the end you will want some cash for expenses. So you either setup an amry to withdraw money at ATM's, or you funnel part of that money to exchanges where you buy penny stock (from the intended recipient of the money) at inflated prices (pump & dump) . Due to the size of the FX market it is now the prefered venue for money launderers.

your reading list for tonight:
Cleaning up compliance to tackle money laundering
Microcap stock fraud - Wikipedia
Metel hackers thrash banks in infinite ATM withdrawal night raids
‘The Analyzer’ Pleads Guilty in $10 Million Bank-Hacking Case
SWIFT Hack: Bangladesh Bank Recovers $15 Million from a Philippines Casino

 

[donald bathe]

i was talking to a money transfer expert and this is what he told me about hackers who steal like 100 million dollars or more being located in third world countries,
Not really my area of expertise, but I will give it a shot.
I cannot speak for why the hackers are presumably in a country that is classified as third world, presumably because of lax security laws. However, most countries are signatory to Interpol and other law enforcement agencies and can extradite alleged criminals.
Where stolen bitcoins go, I have no idea, however, it is fair to assume they will try to either exchange and/or buy things so as to convert back to fiat. Some people / organizations may discount the value of the bitcoins to convert it back to fiat.
I am not privy to any secret financial authority that monitors hacked activity, however, all bitcoins brought/sold in the United States are tracked (as required by law) by all the legal exchanges and/or companies dealing in bitcoin. What inferences they (the law enforcement authorities) can get out of it, is anyone’s guess.
One would ideally never hack from the same country one is in, it is just way to easier to get in trouble with the local laws.


now, someone on this forum said that tax laws are lax in many third world countries, whatever that means. ive never come across a case in which a hacker who lives in the u.s. or canada and who has stolen like 200 million dollars or more from lets say the bank of south korea or japan and somehow funnel all that stolen money back to the u.s. or canada or at least to my knowledge of course. on the contrary vice versa ive heard of hackers in third world countries who hacked from banks in western europe, united states , australia, ect... which are all rich developed first world nations! to say that the FBI which is arguably the worlds finest law enforcement agency has caught all hackers is a joke! some hackers have NEVER been caught! look at this, Hackers Steal $1 Billion in Massive, Worldwide Breach in this case no one has ever been caught! who do you think did it? i suspect former government hackers like kgb. it would be really hard to picture not impossible of course but difficult for someone to funnel a ton of money back into some rich developed nation like those six anglo countries that i mentioned! other options include offshore bank accounts. i also tend to believe that those six anglo countries are not dumb and know how to fight money laundering via cryptocurrency better than most third world countries but again im assuming here only of course. sometimes all we can do at times in case of hackers is only to assume because the information is maybe not too reliable. does this make sense? the cia, pentagon, fbi, nsa, nasa, ect........... can all be hacked because anything built by men will never be perfect! what puzzles me the most is why ive never heard of such cases where hackers have been either living or located in any of those six anglo countries? rsvp

Well 'stealing' money can be done in several ways. In the earlier days hackers would use SQL injects to update account balances, while money-mules with copies plastic cards would use ATM's to the max to convert that balance in to cash.

The Swift hackers used Casino's to launder part of their money.

Hacking a bank is not easy, the difficult part is how to transfer that money to you. It leaves digital fingerprints. And in the end you will want some cash for expenses. So you either setup an amry to withdraw money at ATM's, or you funnel part of that money to exchanges where you buy penny stock (from the intended recipient of the money) at inflated prices (pump & dump) . Due to the size of the FX market it is now the prefered venue for money launderers.

your reading list for tonight:
Cleaning up compliance to tackle money laundering
Microcap stock fraud - Wikipedia
Metel hackers thrash banks in infinite ATM withdrawal night raids
‘The Analyzer’ Pleads Guilty in $10 Million Bank-Hacking Case
SWIFT Hack: Bangladesh Bank Recovers $15 Million from a Philippines Casino

 

[Milky Moon]

One of the myths is that there is 'a' KGB(SFB) and that the KGB does all the hacking. Russians mainly work themselves, they are left alone as long as they do not target Russian interest, Russian Financial Institutions. Some have a part time job at the KGB and are allowed to earn extra monies as long as they adhere to the above rules.

So what you see is a lot of competing Russian groups, that are linked to the Russian State, but do not directly work for them. On occasion they share information, but mainly they sell info to the highest bidder. Sometimes that bidder is the on the wrong side, and then members of the group start dying fast. (read about the deaths and arrests the beginning of this year in Russia in connection with the Trump campaign).

As for the $1 billion failed swift heist. This was against 3rd world financial infrastructure, with people who had tremendous knowledge of how swift operates. So not a 3rd world hacker hacking US banks.