Investments in Latam

[Kirito]

Historically, Latam countries hasn't been friendly to foreign investments because of the corruption and the legal uncertainty.

Despite that, Latam is one of the most growing market of the last decade, with more than 30 unicorns and raising.

I see lots of potential on Latam, but also see many potential problems that must be addressed.

What do you think about long-term investments on Latam? Are you open to try? What do you believe that would be necessary to do it?

 

[CoinMaster]

there must be opportunities
https://www.fastmarkets.com/insights/how-latin-america-lost-a-decade-of-economic-progress

 

[Martin Everson]

What do you think about long-term investments on Latam?

Depends on which area of investment and even down to which country.

Are you open to try?

No

What do you believe that would be necessary to do it?

English civil law.

 

[Kirito]

English civil law.

What do you mean?

 

[Martin Everson]

What do you mean?

See below definition. But I actually meant "English Common Law"....apologies .

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/English+civil+law
You can find a list of which legal system each country has below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_legal_systems

 

[lostguy]

It's good for people with large pockets and an entire law staff in house.

 

[Cetme308win]

It's good for people with large pockets and an entire law staff in house.

And good connections specially with politicians,people from the army and police also with the local landowners....

That's how things works there

 

[Kirito]

army and police also with the local landowners

It seems like you guys see LATAM as a colonial place from the eighteen century yet

 

[Cetme308win]

It seems like you guys see LATAM as a colonial place from the eighteen century yet

No lol but it's how things works tho.... I have business interests in Panamá,Colombia and Paraguay.... And that's how you are successful there...

Same here in Spain tho even we are in the European Union and all people should have the same opportunities (I'm spaniard) but in LATAM that's even more important...

Specially because bureaucracy is a fucking nightmare but if you have the right contacts, licenses are easy to get
In fact one of my business partners is a high rank army officer and everything it's easier in his countrie due to that fact....he always know the right person for anything.... Best fixer ever lol

Like we says here "el que tiene padrino se bautiza"

I think it's something cultural among most spanish speakers countries.... Lot of bureaucracy for normal people but with a good contact everything is easier to get....

 

[Golden Fleece]

No lol but it's how things works tho.... I have business interests in Panamá,Colombia and Paraguay.... And that's how you are successful there...

Same here in Spain tho even we are in the European Union and all people should have the same opportunities (I'm spaniard) but in LATAM that's even more important...

Specially because bureaucracy is a fucking nightmare but if you have the right contacts, licenses are easy to get
In fact one of my business partners is a high rank army officer and everything it's easier in his countrie due to that fact....he always know the right person for anything.... Best fixer ever lol

Like we says here "el que tiene padrino se bautiza"

I think it's something cultural among most spanish speakers countries.... Lot of bureaucracy for normal people but with a good contact everything is easier to get....

Paraguay is very much like that. I was warned by an American married to a Paraguayan woman (whose father was a judge) to get into a "pack" to watch each other's back while doing business in Paraguay. When I replied that I have always been a lone wolf, he said that was fine -- but you had better get into a pack of other lone wolves. He was right.

I can tell you that Paraguay loses an immense amount of international investment because of its kleptocracy culture. High ranking government officials will literally use their positions to steal businesses and licenses on behalf of the powerful elites who control the country.

I know someone who had a significant business license issued directly by the office of the president. A new president came into office from the same political party (Colorado Party) and the new cabinet member in charge of the department that issued the business license literally stole the license (on behalf of a wealthy family) and killed the company and the investment.

After I witnessed that, I pulled out of Paraguay. There is no rule of law there. More like the rule of the jungle. Coming from a first world country, it is hard to believe the depth of the problem until you actually witness it for yourself. Paraguay is a great country in which to lie low and disappear, but not so much for any sizable investment.

Panama is on the opposite end of the spectrum for Latin America. While connections are still important in Panama, it has a strong rule of law. In Colombia, I worry about the upcoming presidential election -- with a former leftist revolutionary ex-rebel favored to win the presidency.

 

[Cetme308win]

Panama is on the opposite end of the spectrum for Latin America. While connections are still important in Panama, it has a strong rule of law. In Colombia, I worry about the upcoming presidential election -- with a former leftist revolutionary ex-rebel favored to win the presidency.

Panama is actually a synthetic country modelled by the US from a part of Colombia that they helped to become independent so it's understandable why the rule of law is strong...

About Colombia, yes I'm very worried if Petro became the president since I'm into the mining & oil industry both of them target industries for a leftist like him

 

[Kirito]

So, do you think that it could be a good idea to sell products or services on Latam, but not have a big investment there?

 

[jjrapy]

Paraguay is very much like that. I was warned by an American married to a Paraguayan woman (whose father was a judge) to get into a "pack" to watch each other's back while doing business in Paraguay. When I replied that I have always been a lone wolf, he said that was fine -- but you had better get into a pack of other lone wolves. He was right.

I can tell you that Paraguay loses an immense amount of international investment because of its kleptocracy culture. High ranking government officials will literally use their positions to steal businesses and licenses on behalf of the powerful elites who control the country.

I know someone who had a significant business license issued directly by the office of the president. A new president came into office from the same political party (Colorado Party) and the new cabinet member in charge of the department that issued the business license literally stole the license (on behalf of a wealthy family) and killed the company and the investment.

After I witnessed that, I pulled out of Paraguay. There is no rule of law there. More like the rule of the jungle. Coming from a first world country, it is hard to believe the depth of the problem until you actually witness it for yourself. Paraguay is a great country in which to lie low and disappear, but not so much for any sizable investment.

Panama is on the opposite end of the spectrum for Latin America. While connections are still important in Panama, it has a strong rule of law. In Colombia, I worry about the upcoming presidential election -- with a former leftist revolutionary ex-rebel favored to win the presidency.

Just curious: Are you talking about the cement plant license?

 

[Golden Fleece]

Just curious: Are you talking about the cement plant license?

No, but it was something similar. I would not be surprised if such thefts happened in multiple industries.

 

[jjrapy]

No, but it was something similar. I would not be surprised if such thefts happened in multiple industries.

sadly it’s true

 

[Cetme308win]

sadly it’s true

Thefts like that are terrible but corruption is not as bad for doing business tho.... Use to make things easier like..... You need a license for a mine, and if you know the right person you can get that license fairly easy than trying to comply with all the requerimients and stupid bureaucracy ( also known as burrocracia)

Like one uncle of mine used to say:
Tienes que tener amigos hasta en el infierno
( You need to have friends even in the hell)

 

[jjrapy]

Thefts like that are terrible but corruption is not as bad for doing business tho.... Use to make things easier like..... You need a license for a mine, and if you know the right person you can get that license fairly easy than trying to comply with all the requerimients and stupid bureaucracy ( also known as burrocracia)

Like one uncle of mine used to say:
Tienes que tener amigos hasta en el infierno
( You need to have friends even in the hell)

Yeah, bureaucracy is a headache. But I have to disagree about corruption, any form of corruption is bad imo, even though it makes easier some things.
I agree about amigos, but for good purposes lol.

 

[Golden Fleece]

Thefts like that are terrible but corruption is not as bad for doing business tho.... Use to make things easier like..... You need a license for a mine, and if you know the right person you can get that license fairly easy than trying to comply with all the requerimients and stupid bureaucracy ( also known as burrocracia)

But that is exactly the problem. The foreign investor painstakingly established a relationship with the president of Paraguay, which is how he obtained the license. Then a new president got elected, from the same political party, and a cabinet member then stole the license on behalf of a rich Paraguayan (after millions of dollars of investment). It is impossible to conduct business in such a manner. That is why Paraguay loses an immense amount of international investment.

What good is getting a license through local connections and investing millions of dollars, if you can then lose that license to someone with better connections? You cannot do business without the rule of law.

 

[Cetme308win]

Yeah, bureaucracy is a headache. But I have to disagree about corruption, any form of corruption is bad imo, even though it makes easier some things.
I agree about amigos, but for good purposes lol.

Well bureaucracy and regulations have a very clear purpose, throwing out the market the small fishes so the big ones doesn't have so much competitors.

Of course, would be better a free market world where government respect their citizen's rights and corruption doesn't exist but that's not the case sadly.
In the real world free market hardly exists, governments regulate in order to limit competitors on the market and those governments don't give a f**k about their citizens's rights.

But in this world not everything is black and white and a businessman you should always adapt yourself to the world and the market, it's what we could call "business darwinism".

Corruption give you the freedom that governments don't give you.

Most of corruption wouldn't happen if:
1. Governments wouldn't be involved on business.
2. Free market,no licensing and lax regulations exists.
3. Citizens are free enough.

Like the Roman empire's senator and historian Tacitus said "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"

But that is exactly the problem. The foreign investor painstakingly established a relationship with the president of Paraguay, which is how he obtained the license. Then a new president got elected, from the same political party, and a cabinet member then stole the license on behalf of a rich Paraguayan (after millions of dollars of investment). It is impossible to conduct business in such a manner. That is why Paraguay loses an immense amount of international investment.

What good is getting a license through local connections and investing millions of dollars, if you can then lose that license to someone with better connections? You cannot do business without the rule of law.

Yes of course, in such cases they are robbing you sadly, but I wasn't talking about that.

I was talking for example of getting a license for a mine and talking to the right people so they get such license for you and no one can take it away from you.