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Is keeping a high balance (6 figures) in an EMI insane?

Scanman

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Oct 13, 2017
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Maybe a stupid question, but after reading these forums the last few days, EMIs seem to be the recommended way to go, rather than traditional banks.

If you have a mid 6 figure sum, and a steady stream of money coming in, is it safe to let an EMI hold your hard earned money? It seems most have their funds held with legitimate banks and are 'ring fenced" from creditors, but if they were to get shut down or go under how safe are you funds really? None seem to insure your funds with a deposit insurance scheme like a traditional onshore bank...

I suppose what I'm asking is how safe are EMIs for use to hold a high balance for long term, or are they just a solution to receive and withdraw quickly?
 
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Usually you receive and withdraw quickly, that's how I use them and always would use them. Looking at your question then there is another angle to look at it. If you have to use an EMI or offshore account your Money can't be on a regular onshore account for various reasons. So there will always be a risk higher compared to normal banking.
 
Thanks for the reply - I did figure EMIs were for quick transnational and withdrawal use, but wondered if they were viable as a means of holding funds long term.

"depends".

in the eu banks are only covering the first 100k.EUR, so you will loose there also.

if the emi is established, with a good reputation it should not be problematic to hold large sums -provided- you can explain the source.
 
Usually you receive and withdraw quickly, that's how I use them and always would use them. Looking at your question then there is another angle to look at it. If you have to use an EMI or offshore account your Money can't be on a regular onshore account for various reasons. So there will always be a risk higher compared to normal banking.

I'm not convinced EMI's fall under the AEoI/CRS rules. The UK regulator has stated this was not the case so there is a good business case for having a large sum of money at an EMI (end of december beginning of january ;)) .

(LeuPay, probably due to their ownership by Satabank, will report deposits!)
 
i would recommend to hold your funds in bitcoin, because it's impossible to loose it, when nobody except you has the private key to the wallet

Unfortunately the value of the bitcoin can go up and down ... so you introduce an exchange risk into the mix. (and you still have to convert it into fiat currency something which will become harder and harder (more regulated).
 
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"depends".

in the eu banks are only covering the first 100k.EUR, so you will loose there also.

if the emi is established, with a good reputation it should not be problematic to hold large sums -provided- you can explain the source.

This has been my concern so far - UK banks are £85K, so I keep opening new ones which is just getting hard to control, and probably will start to look very suspicious at some point. Sounds like all EU options are €100k which is good to know, at least as long as the Euro stays strong. I take it EMI have no depositors insurance?

As to Bitcoin, holding funds in that is a gamble I would never take - and I make all my money in BTC. Though its on the rise it's far from stable or guaranteed, and you loose on exchange to FIAT as said, and exchanges are really becoming a pain with verification's.

At this point i'm tempted to buy Gold with Bitcoin... No CGT on 1oz Brittanias...
 
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Also investing in bitcoins is tax free as long as you have paid tax from the money you buy bitcoins for! At least it is that way in some of the countries in EU I read.
 
I'm not convinced EMI's fall under the AEoI/CRS rules. The UK regulator has stated this was not the case so there is a good business case for having a large sum of money at an EMI (end of december beginning of january ;)) .

(LeuPay, probably due to their ownership by Satabank, will report deposits!)
you sure about this? any public available information? :)
 
you sure about this? any public available information? :)

I was talking specifically about the UK, however the first PDF is withdrawn so that ight have changed the conclusion.

1) https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...Exchange_of_Financial_Account_Information.pdf (seems to have been withdrawn)

IEIM400740 - International Exchange of Information Manual - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK (EMI is not listed)

2)
“E-money” providers that are governed by the provisions of the European Union Electronic Money Directive (2009/110/EC) (EMD) are not deposit takers for the purposes of the Banking Consolidation Directive (2006/48/EC). Recital 13 to the EMD specifically states that “The issuance of electronic money does not constitute a deposit-taking activity pursuant to Directive 2006/48/EC”, consequently such providers will not fall within the definition of Depository Institution that requires deposits to be accepted in the ordinary course of a banking or similar business.

The CRS cover entities that fall into certain categories of institutions, which include custodial institutions, depository institutions, investment entities and specified insurance companies. There was some uncertainty as to whether or not E-money institutions might be regarded as depository institutions. The latest guidance notes however specifically state that “E-money” providers that are governed by the provisions of the European Union Electronic Money Directive (2009/110/EC) (EMD) are not deposit takers for the purposes of the Banking Consolidation Directive (2006/48/EC). Accordingly such providers will not fall within the definition of depository institution and therefore also not in the scope of the CRS".

3)
http://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/common-reporting-standard/CRS-related-FAQs.pdf

8. E-money providers – qualification as a Depository Institution
What is the status of electronic money providers for CRS purposes?No special rules apply to electronic money providers. Like other financial industry participants, they must determinewhether they are a Financial Institution, as defined by the CRS. That determination will depend on the facts andcircumstances. For instance, in order to determine whether an electronic money provider is a Depository Institution,the analysis must be done with reference to Section VIII(A)(5) and the related Commentary, in particular paragraph 13.

7. Excluded Accounts - low-value electronic money accounts
Under what conditions can electronic money accounts that are Depository Accounts be Excluded Accounts pursuant to Section VIII(C)(17)(g)?The mere fact that a Financial Account is an electronic money account does not by itself enable that Financial Accountto be specified by a jurisdiction in its domestic law as a low-risk Excluded Account. In order for such FinancialAccounts to be specified as Excluded Accounts under the domestic law of an implementing jurisdiction pursuant toSection VIII(C)(17)(g), the jurisdiction needs to ensure that the accounts present a low risk for being used for taxevasion, have substantially similar characteristics to another category of Excluded Accounts and that their status as anExcluded Account does not frustrate the purposes of the CRS.

The Commentary on Section VIII(C)(17)(g) providesexamples of such low-risk jurisdiction-specific Excluded Accounts.As an example of a low-risk Excluded Account in the context of financial inclusion, Example 5 states that aDepository Account subject to financial regulation (i) that provides defined and limited services, so as to increasefinancial inclusion, (ii) on which monthly deposits cannot exceed USD 1 250 and (iii) for which Financial Institutionshave been allowed to apply simplified AML/KYC procedures consistent with the FATF Recommendations may be alow-risk Excluded Account.Provided that electronic money accounts are regulated and meet the requirements of Section VIII(C)(17)(g), they maybe defined as an Excluded Account by the implementing jurisdiction. The above-mentioned example can providefurther illustrative guidance as to when the requirements of Section VIII(C)(17)(g) would be met in the context offinancial inclusion.