Luxury Watches as a way to conceal assets?

[Vor]

Curious of all your guys opinions on using luxury watches as an addition to a collection of hidden assets. Say your already hiding wealth with gold, silver, and physical cash. What about diversifying into luxury watches? I'm talking quality pieces with boxes & papers from Rolex, Audemars Piguet, and Patek Philippe. Keep em in the box even and just park it along with the gold and silver. If bought right some watches even rise in value I see pieces though like Rolex Submariners even 20 year old editions have rose in value and these are only about $10K/piece so a cheap entry point to diversifying into luxury watches.

Gold and Silver is great it's easy to hide and purchase anonymously but further diversification out of one asset class can never hurt. Physical cash sitting around is always being devalued so worthless to hold very long term you may as well spend it. The days of hiding assets from the government and tax office within the regular financial system are over thanks to CRS + FATCA. Looking for more asset classes to diversify into that can be truly hidden in 2021 and onward this means basically alternative asset classes. Fine art is interesting but a lot less liquid and harder to store so I see swiss watches as a good option for a portion of money alternate to precious metals.

Thoughts?

 

[ih8socialism]

First of all, yes watches are a pretty good investment but same goes for other limited luxury products (Birkin bags for example) but the biggest issues nowadays is getting these pieces unless you have a good connection to your jewlery store and spend a fuckton of money on useless things.

 

[Dreamy]

If you
1. have stocks/etfs/REIT
2. have bitcoins/eth and other crypto
3. have gold
4. have property in different countries for rent out
5. ...

then you can think about buying watches, imo

 

[uplana]

Actually @Admin made a great article about such investments for some time ago

https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/investment-matrix-discussion-for-doomsday.28868/

only available for mentor group gold members, but as @Dreamy already pointed out, watches are not the first on your list and you need to know a dealer who can get you the ones that keep their value.

 

[Vor]

If you
1. have stocks/etfs/REIT
2. have bitcoins/eth and other crypto
3. have gold
4. have property in different countries for rent out
5. ...

then you can think about buying watches, imo

I have the above but you missed the premise of my question HIDDEN assets. Only gold and crypto if purchased properly can be truly anonymous in the list there. Real estate somewhat depending how much you trust the properties land titles staying private. Stocks, ETFs, REITs this is all in a brokerage account and is 100% taxed, declared, not hidden.

gold, crypto, luxury watches, fine art, and other collectibles are asset classes that can be truly hidden in 2021. The question pertains to using watches as an alternative asset class to hide wealth.

 

[Golden Fleece]

I collected high quality watches for many years. I do not have time to explain a great deal but, if you collect watches as an investment and as a store of value, collect only Patek Philippe watches (it is the best watch company in the world and holds most auction records) with a round case (they never go out of style) in the $5k to $10k range (very liquid) manufactured from 1945 to 1969 (best classic styling and very limited production) -- and only mechanical or automatic watches (no quartz). These watches have a high demand, great liquidity, and great appreciation.

For example, Patek makes only about 60,000 watches per year versus 800,000 to 1 million per year for Rolex. The general rule is that you can buy a modern pre-owned luxury watch for about 50% of its retail (not list) price. It will then hold that value, and even appreciate in time. It is a great investment that you can wear everyday without losing value. You can then sell it any time you wish without losing money.

Just a word of caution: I stopped collecting because all the high end watch manufacturers, including Patek Philippe, began to copy Rolex and now refuse to sell parts to unauthorized service centers. So, if you encounter a problem, it can be a real misery to obtain a part without sending the watch back to the factory or to an authorized service center, which will charge you at least five times as much money as a qualified, independent watchmaker. So, maintenance and especially repairs can really eat into your profit.

Rolex is one of the biggest scumbag companies in the world. It started this "no parts to independent watchmakers," which spread to almost every other high end watch maker. They will void your warranty if you receive service from an unauthorized service center, just so that they can charge you at least five times as much for a cleaning. Then, if you send your Rolex watch back to Rolex or an authorized service center, they will STEAL any aftermarket add-ons. For example, if you add an aftermarket diamond bezel, they will confiscate it. This is akin to placing aftermarket mag wheels on your car and then having the car dealer confiscate them when you take your vehicle to them for servicing. You pay $10k for a watch and then you cannot modify it, if you wish? Absolutely insane. Moreover, most fake watches are counterfeit Rolex watches, even among vintage watches. Do not take my word for any of these statements. Research it. Stay away from Rolex.

Your best deals will come from ebay and private parties. Dealers will charge a huge premium, just as they do for diamonds and jewelry. So educate yourself before you buy. If you want just a single watch to wear, then by all means buy from a dealer. It is better to pay a premium than get burned by a fake. But if you buy as an investment it is hard to realize a built-in profit by buying from a dealer and then selling to a private party (because you will not get the same price as a dealer). Good luck.

 

[jjrapy]

I collected high quality watches for many years. I do not have time to explain a great deal but, if you collect watches as an investment and as a store of value, collect only Patek Philippe watches (it is the best watch company in the world and holds most auction records) with a round case (they never go out of style) in the $5k to $10k range (very liquid) manufactured from 1945 to 1969 (best classic styling and very limited production) -- and only mechanical or automatic watches (no quartz). These watches have a high demand, great liquidity, and great appreciation.

For example, Patek makes only about 60,000 watches per year versus 800,000 to 1 million per year for Rolex. The general rule is that you can buy a modern pre-owned luxury watch for about 50% of its retail (not list) price. It will then hold that value, and even appreciate in time. It is a great investment that you can wear everyday without losing value. You can then sell it any time you wish without losing money.

Just a word of caution: I stopped collecting because all the high end watch manufacturers, including Patek Philippe, began to copy Rolex and now refuse to sell parts to unauthorized service centers. So, if you encounter a problem, it can be a real misery to obtain a part without sending the watch back to the factory or to an authorized service center, which will charge you at least five times as much money as a qualified, independent watchmaker. So, maintenance and especially repairs can really eat into your profit.

Rolex is one of the biggest scumbag companies in the world. It started this "no parts to independent watchmakers," which spread to almost every other high end watch maker. They will void your warranty if you receive service from an unauthorized service center, just so that they can charge you at least five times as much for a cleaning. Then, if you send your Rolex watch back to Rolex or an authorized service center, they will STEAL any aftermarket add-ons. For example, if you add an aftermarket diamond bezel, they will confiscate it. This is akin to placing aftermarket mag wheels on your car and then having the car dealer confiscate them when you take your vehicle to them for servicing. You pay $10k for a watch and then you cannot modify it, if you wish? Absolutely insane. Moreover, most fake watches are counterfeit Rolex watches, even among vintage watches. Do not take my word for any of these statements. Research it. Stay away from Rolex.

Your best deals will come from ebay and private parties. Dealers will charge a huge premium, just as they do for diamonds and jewelry. So educate yourself before you buy. If you want just a single watch to wear, then by all means buy from a dealer. It is better to pay a premium than get burned by a fake. But if you buy as an investment it is hard to realize a built-in profit by buying from a dealer and then selling to a private party (because you will not get the same price as a dealer). Good luck.

Totally agree with patek Philippe. Maybe breguet or a lange could be options.

 

[fortunespeculator]

Totally agree with patek Philippe. Maybe breguet or a lange could be options.

Any good dealers that you know of Patek Phillips/breguet/lange??

 

[Golden Fleece]

Any good dealers that you know of Patek Phillips/breguet/lange??

One place for such reliable sellers are dealers on Chrono24 who have great feedback. Chrono24 also offers a 14-day return period for all watches.

 

[jjrapy]

Any good dealers that you know of Patek Phillips/breguet/lange??

Just like @Golden Fleece says, Chrono24 would be a place to search among used and new as well.
Otherwise some jewelry stores like watches of Switzerland, berry’s jewellers

 

[lostguy]

Any good dealers that you know of Patek Phillips/breguet/lange??

Take a tour through Hamburg or Berlin, you will find dealers there with all these watches on stock, you can pay even in cash there!

I'm sure same is possible in Paris, London and Switzerland, depending on where you live.