Moving to UAE because of crazy taxes in my country (France) - Misc questions

[celizo]

Not that simple for St-Barth. New residents coming from France are not considered the same way, and must live 5 years in St-Barth before being fully considered tax resident there with the full advantages.
fiscalite-de-saint-barthelemy.pdf

It's the same with SXM french part (not exactly the same specific rules).
French laws are very complexes, and when we look deeper, probably it's the same with others countries (especially french "fiscal attractives territories").

I know french people in Mauritius with companies in France. And I've heard that there is this kind of delay aswell (5 yrs) with some parts of fiscal advantages (I cannot give more details as I have not followed the exact details during discusssions).

 

[Konstanz]

Not that simple for St-Barth. New residents coming from France are not considered the same way, and must live 5 years in St-Barth before being fully considered tax resident there with the full advantages.
fiscalite-de-saint-barthelemy.pdf

It's the same with SXM french part (not exactly the same specific rules).
French laws are very complexes, and when we look deeper, probably it's the same with others countries (especially french "fiscal attractives territories").

I know french people in Mauritius with companies in France. And I've heard that there is this kind of delay aswell (5 yrs) with some parts of fiscal advantages (I cannot give more details as I have not followed the exact details during discusssions).

How's for those people who are not French and not from France ? This rule of 5 years is only for French?

 

[celizo]

It's for frenchs who were previously tax residents in France. Not french expats living already out of France.

EDIT:
But I see in this pdf a column 'Neo‐resident hors de France', so maybe I'm wrong and it's for all.

 

[karishi]

Unless he buy company which is already 5 years old. But I think Saint Barthelemy is much nicer place than Wallis and Futuna in Pacific.

St. Barths is a place where you could certainly live 5 years with lots of money, if you like the vibe. You do 7 months in St. Barths ( november to may ) and 5 months in Ibiza ( June to october ). You don't get bored for sure and it's beautiful.

 

[Cloudbanck]

Ok, but so if you are not French and never lived in France, can you just move to Saint Barthelemy have zero tax? Assuming you are an EU citizen. And no income tax, no corporate tax? Capital gains tax?

If it's good enough for Hugh Hendry...

 

[Konstanz]

Ok, but so if you are not French and never lived in France, can you just move to Saint Barthelemy have zero tax? Assuming you are an EU citizen. And no income tax, no corporate tax? Capital gains tax?

If it's good enough for Hugh Hendry...

Yes I was asking many people the same question and not getting clear answer.
St Barth island is really nice island during season. It's really the one livable island, very safe, beautiful and everything high quality

 

[Cloudbanck]

Ok, I found a quite clear answer here (in french): https://cms.law/fr/fra/publication/eclaircissement-sur-les-fiscalites-applicables-a-saint-barthelemy

Basically "neo-residents" on St Barth that havent lived in France previously (not in the last 5 years), regardless of citizenship, are considered as French tax payers, but have some tax exemptions like no wealth tax on assets outside France, and can avail of the French "inpatriate" tax regime (which I dont know much about, guess it's far from as good as the Italian inpatriate regime).

And then after 5 years as a resident of St Barth, you are no longer a "neo-resident", but a tax resident of St Barth which is much better tax wise.

So for the first 5 years, guess the best way to do it is to buy a 5 year old St Barth company. Costs about 20k USD Ive heard. I wonder how difficult it is to set one up, and if there are requirements for activity in the first 5 years.

 

[tomboy]

Hello! This is my first message here.
I already learnt so much on this forum, so first of all thanks for the content.

Here is my situation :
I have a company (SASU) in France since I was 19 years old (I'm 23 now). I NEVER paid taxes yet because :
- I was in a "free zone" (ZFU) = no IS (corporate taxes) during 5 years.
- I NEVER paid myself, all the money I made is STILL in the company bank account since the beginning = no dividend, no salary, no tax because no money out from the company.

Anyway, I know that all the money I made in France (around 400K) will be taxed because I'll have to get it out at some point! So this money - ok, I can't escape the taxes, no problem, I will pay.

But I'm thinking of the future. France, it's minimum 45-50%.. (even more) of taxes if you give yourself a salary. So I definetely DON'T want to continue my business here. I do online consulting (B2B) and I run another business, also online (B2C).

I found Dubai, a lot of French are here so I documented myself and decided to create my company here, in a free zone. Of course, I'm with an agency that handles the company creation, visa etc..



Anyway, my questions :

- The money I made in France, I can do nothing to "escape" the taxes, right ? I think I'll just pay myself a dividend and will pay the 30% flat tax of the 400K. Someone told me to look into a system where I bill my SASU company (France) from my UAE company. Seems tricky.

- Any payments processors to recommend once I'm installed in the UAE ? (excluding Stripe)

- Bank account (personal/professional) - Needs a minimum deposit ? If so, how much approximately ?

- Once I have my company, bank account.. everything in UAE. Ready to operate. What obligations do I have to respect in term of papers/declarations ? Annual audit? Tax declaration ? (with the new 9% corporate tax) --- It's still unclear for me

- Very important : Will I be considered UAE fiscal resident if I live more than 6 months in Dubai during the period from 01/01/2024 to 31/12/2024 ?
Let me rephrase this : Will I be considered non-French resident ? Because in fact, I'll still have my SASU in France. I'm afraid France consideres me as a French fiscal resident because of it.
Apart from this, I have no real estate, no vehicles, I'm not married... nothing of that in France.
All I have is my company (SASU), personal/business bank account, an office (rent), and an accountant.

EDIT : I forgot to clarify. But my SASU will make NO MONEY at all. All the money I'll make will be with my UAE company.
Why keep my SASU? Good question, in fact. I'm not sure myself, but I probably want to keep my SASU opened (minimum for 2024) just in case. But I'll probably don't use it at all.

So.. Do I risk something? My main company will be in UAE, I'll live in UAE (+6 months/year), I'll receive salary from my UAE company.. (first time of my life receiving a salary btw!)
It's not enough to not be considered as French fiscal resident anymore ?


Thank you so much in advance. I love reading this forum I learn so much from it.
Have a nice day

Bonjour, Bonjour !

First off all, at such a young age, it seems you already accomplished a lot, that's quite impressive and your forward-thinking approach to your financial circumstances suggests a promising future ahead. Kudos.

1. French Taxes: You're correct in understanding that the money earned in France, that is still within your French company, will be subject to French tax laws once it's distributed to you. As for the suggestion of billing your French company from your UAE company, that might indeed be tricky and could potentially create issues with the "FISC" as it would most likely be seen as tax evasion

2. Payment Processors in the UAE: A few payment processors operating in the UAE come to my mind such as PayTabs, Telr, and Payfort. It's worth comparing their features and costs to see which suits your business best.

3. UAE Bank Accounts: Requirements for opening a bank account in the UAE can vary depending on the bank. It's best to check with banks directly but it should not be so complicated as you will be living there, and your company will be there. that's pretty straight forward

4. Obligations in the UAE: I ain't sure about that. but probably not a big deal.

5. Tax Residency: The issue of tax residency can be complex. Generally, if you spend more than 183 days in a year in a country, you're considered a tax resident of that country. However, tax treaties between countries can affect this. France and the UAE have a tax treaty, and under that treaty, you could be considered a tax resident of the UAE if your permanent home is there, and you have stronger personal and economic ties there than to France. Having your main company in the UAE and living there for more than half the year could potentially support this. However, keeping your SASU open in France could complicate matters, I would suggest to not keep it after 2024.

Thanks for the answer, that’s a bit more reassuring!


About this, how exactly should I transfer the money, in your opinion? Dividend from my french company to my UAE personal bank account?

In general, if you want to move money from your French company to your personal account in the UAE, you could indeed do this through a dividend payment. However, this would likely be subject to French taxation. When transferring money internationally, it's also important to be aware of any reporting requirements. Banks especially in France (TRACFIN) need to report large international transfers.
It's definitely not the right thing to do IMO

Every country has a hard limit which doesn't trigger any signal to the tax authority, in Italy is 10k euro for a wire. If you have a contract to do a website from your old company to the new one, that would be a first way to move some money to the new company. As long as there is a contract is ok.... Once you are resident outside, with provable residence outside, just distribute dividends very slowly. I mean, we are not talking about 40 millions euro.
Of course be aware that there is risk involved, just make sure that the WORST you ever risk is a fine. A fine is annoying, but it's only a fine. If you have done 400k between 19 and 23, you will make more, so a fine is not a big issue. Making fake documents is a criminal offence and gets you to jail. Always be aware of what you risk and if you are ok in risking it, at 23 everybody tends to be on the optimistic side, my advice is, always do something you are comfortable with and NEVER EVER do something which might get you in jail. So no darks or stuff like that.
At the end of the day, even if you paid french taxes on all the 400k, you would have 200k to spend in Dubai, and probably a lot more to make in the future, so act wisely

Second that. Excellent advice.

I’m not sure if I understood this correctly how do I not pay taxes on the dividend ?


Thanks
I was thinking about this yes (about billing my companies between them), but to be honest I want to reduce risks at maximum and I think I’ll not even do it.

I might pay the 30% flat tax for the dividend and that’s it. I only hope I’ll have no problem with french taxmen that will consider me as french resident somehow but I’ll do my best to reduce the risks. I’ll close my french company as soon as I paid the dividend, I think.

For now I never heard a story of someone that moved to France to UAE directly who had a problem with french taxmen, but I understand that it means nothing. Still should be aware and reduce the risks.
I will take the risk to move directly France -> UAE. I’ll let you know if I faced a problem in the next years xd

If you have anything to add feel free y’all. I really enjoy reading you and learn.

Have a nice day.

There's something you need to keep in mind - everything you did as of now - the way you describe it, is 100% legal. You opened a company, made money, left money in the company - so far so good.
Moving to another country is not illegal. You will move overseas, open a company there, work there... it's all good and 100% legal. there is nothing to worry about.
Regarding the money you have in your company bank account, distribute it, pay your taxes, close your file properly in France as you might want to come back one day (not sure how long someone can live in UAE, especially when coming from such a beautiful country like France, cocorico).

your center of life will be in UAE, you will have no problem showing France you are a UAE tax resident.

 

[SasuT]

Bonjour, Bonjour !

First off all, at such a young age, it seems you already accomplished a lot, that's quite impressive and your forward-thinking approach to your financial circumstances suggests a promising future ahead. Kudos.

1. French Taxes: You're correct in understanding that the money earned in France, that is still within your French company, will be subject to French tax laws once it's distributed to you. As for the suggestion of billing your French company from your UAE company, that might indeed be tricky and could potentially create issues with the "FISC" as it would most likely be seen as tax evasion

2. Payment Processors in the UAE: A few payment processors operating in the UAE come to my mind such as PayTabs, Telr, and Payfort. It's worth comparing their features and costs to see which suits your business best.

3. UAE Bank Accounts: Requirements for opening a bank account in the UAE can vary depending on the bank. It's best to check with banks directly but it should not be so complicated as you will be living there, and your company will be there. that's pretty straight forward

4. Obligations in the UAE: I ain't sure about that. but probably not a big deal.

5. Tax Residency: The issue of tax residency can be complex. Generally, if you spend more than 183 days in a year in a country, you're considered a tax resident of that country. However, tax treaties between countries can affect this. France and the UAE have a tax treaty, and under that treaty, you could be considered a tax resident of the UAE if your permanent home is there, and you have stronger personal and economic ties there than to France. Having your main company in the UAE and living there for more than half the year could potentially support this. However, keeping your SASU open in France could complicate matters, I would suggest to not keep it after 2024.


In general, if you want to move money from your French company to your personal account in the UAE, you could indeed do this through a dividend payment. However, this would likely be subject to French taxation. When transferring money internationally, it's also important to be aware of any reporting requirements. Banks especially in France (TRACFIN) need to report large international transfers.
It's definitely not the right thing to do IMO


Second that. Excellent advice.


There's something you need to keep in mind - everything you did as of now - the way you describe it, is 100% legal. You opened a company, made money, left money in the company - so far so good.
Moving to another country is not illegal. You will move overseas, open a company there, work there... it's all good and 100% legal. there is nothing to worry about.
Regarding the money you have in your company bank account, distribute it, pay your taxes, close your file properly in France as you might want to come back one day (not sure how long someone can live in UAE, especially when coming from such a beautiful country like France, cocorico).

your center of life will be in UAE, you will have no problem showing France you are a UAE tax resident.

Thanks so much

 

[freeworld]

Hello! This is my first message here.
I already learnt so much on this forum, so first of all thanks for the content.

Here is my situation :
I have a company (SASU) in France since I was 19 years old (I'm 23 now). I NEVER paid taxes yet because :
- I was in a "free zone" (ZFU) = no IS (corporate taxes) during 5 years.
- I NEVER paid myself, all the money I made is STILL in the company bank account since the beginning = no dividend, no salary, no tax because no money out from the company.

Anyway, I know that all the money I made in France (around 400K) will be taxed because I'll have to get it out at some point! So this money - ok, I can't escape the taxes, no problem, I will pay.

But I'm thinking of the future. France, it's minimum 45-50%.. (even more) of taxes if you give yourself a salary. So I definetely DON'T want to continue my business here. I do online consulting (B2B) and I run another business, also online (B2C).

I found Dubai, a lot of French are here so I documented myself and decided to create my company here, in a free zone. Of course, I'm with an agency that handles the company creation, visa etc..



Anyway, my questions :

- The money I made in France, I can do nothing to "escape" the taxes, right ? I think I'll just pay myself a dividend and will pay the 30% flat tax of the 400K. Someone told me to look into a system where I bill my SASU company (France) from my UAE company. Seems tricky.

- Any payments processors to recommend once I'm installed in the UAE ? (excluding Stripe)

- Bank account (personal/professional) - Needs a minimum deposit ? If so, how much approximately ?

- Once I have my company, bank account.. everything in UAE. Ready to operate. What obligations do I have to respect in term of papers/declarations ? Annual audit? Tax declaration ? (with the new 9% corporate tax) --- It's still unclear for me

- Very important : Will I be considered UAE fiscal resident if I live more than 6 months in Dubai during the period from 01/01/2024 to 31/12/2024 ?
Let me rephrase this : Will I be considered non-French resident ? Because in fact, I'll still have my SASU in France. I'm afraid France consideres me as a French fiscal resident because of it.
Apart from this, I have no real estate, no vehicles, I'm not married... nothing of that in France.
All I have is my company (SASU), personal/business bank account, an office (rent), and an accountant.

EDIT : I forgot to clarify. But my SASU will make NO MONEY at all. All the money I'll make will be with my UAE company.
Why keep my SASU? Good question, in fact. I'm not sure myself, but I probably want to keep my SASU opened (minimum for 2024) just in case. But I'll probably don't use it at all.

So.. Do I risk something? My main company will be in UAE, I'll live in UAE (+6 months/year), I'll receive salary from my UAE company.. (first time of my life receiving a salary btw!)
It's not enough to not be considered as French fiscal resident anymore ?


Thank you so much in advance. I love reading this forum I learn so much from it.
Have a nice day

Hi I think you need a very good law firm in France that adapts to your situation without wanting to bleed you. There are different parameters to take into account if you want I can advise you send me a private message if you wish.

 

[bartholomeus]

@SasuT hello again, do you know accountant that might be able to help with ZFU free zone incorporation? or if you are willing to share some of your time? I would like to establish that for the time being and potentially move to UAE afterwards. I will be traveling there in December but will most likelly stay in France for 6-12 mo more.

 

[Zikki]

I would say to open a freezone company in dubai with a resident visa for you, move there, spin a NAS in your apartment, make a website for both your companies and bill hosting/Website design fees to your french one. You open a Paysera account in EUR for you new company (the KYC is long but not very complicacted) and send money to your Paysera Account in EUR. Your sepa payment are legitimate and internal to Europe so no UAE destination relevant for your french bank. You can then transfer your money from your Paysera Account to your final company account in Dubai (or elsewhere) and flag it as transfert between own account. It should not raise any flag either, EMI are used to perform that and leverage currency exchange for this exactly.... Pay attention that your new company will have to pay 9% tax and you should register to VAT (but can do the exemption path to avoid filling a 0 VAT declaration multiple times a year)