Non AEOI broker for stocks/ETF's

[heaven]

At which broker can you open an accounts that isn't tracked under CRS / AEOI as a EU citizen?

I'm just looking to trade stocks and ETF's.

I prefer a big and low commission broker instead of an expensive broker on some island. But I'm open for any suggestion.

 

[rey skywalker]

the nearest place to you is nothern cyprus open in bnp parisbas they have good trding platform

 

[Silvio]

https://trader.gehttps://www.galtandtaggart.com/I think some Armenian banks also offer the service

 

[JackAlabama]

https://trader.gehttps://www.galtandtaggart.com/I think some Armenian banks also offer the service

eu loving Georgia is joining soon the honorable ranks of crs as of next year.

 

[Educate]

Isn't a better strategy to get second passport / residence and use that address when registering with brokers so the reports get sent to a tax friendly jurisdiction instead of your actual residence jurisdiction?

 

[Fred]

Setup Dubai company that grants you the residence visa.

Get an Interactive Brokers Account under the company name.

You are then with the US entity of Interactive Brokers -> no CRS
You setup the UAE bank account with UAE residence -> no CRS
The UAE company is considered as tax resident in UAE-> no CRS

 

[heaven]

eu loving Georgia is joining soon the honorable ranks of crs as of next year.

I'm thinking the same

Isn't a better strategy to get second passport / residence and use that address when registering with brokers so the reports get sent to a tax friendly jurisdiction instead of your actual residence jurisdiction?

I already have a second passport but no other residence. I posted a thread regarding this. What is an easy country for residency card?
However am I doing something wrong following this route? I am saying I'm tax resident somewhere I'm not really tax resident. A lot of brokers also ask if you have multiple tax residences.

Setup Dubai company that grants you the residence visa.

Get an Interactive Brokers Account under the company name.

You are then with the US entity of Interactive Brokers -> no CRS
You setup the UAE bank account with UAE residence -> no CRS
The UAE company is considered as tax resident in UAE-> no CRS

Thank for the reply. I need to report tax free entities I own outside of the EU in (my EU) country. I was thinking about doing the same with Estonia and a nominee, but these entities are all opened under the Interactive Brokers EU entity. But nevertheless, what would this cost to maintain?

 

[Fred]

I'm thinking the same


I already have a second passport but no other residence. I posted a thread regarding this. What is an easy country for residency card?
However am I doing something wrong following this route? I am saying I'm tax resident somewhere I'm not really tax resident. A lot of brokers also ask if you have multiple tax residences.



Thank for the reply. I need to report tax free entities I own outside of the EU in (my EU) country. I was thinking about doing the same with Estonia and a nominee, but these entities are all opened under the Interactive Brokers EU entity. But nevertheless, what would this cost to maintain?

Regadring your Estonia Nominee setup - keep in mind Interactive Brokers requires real physical bank account they don't accept EMI's any longer. With Estonia Company and Nominee it's most impossible to even get a bank account with LHV.

Dubai Company Formation with 1 Visa All incl. : 7.000 Euro
Yearly renew of the Company: 4.000 EUR

Additional if you have the requirement to open the Interactive Brokers Account under the company name we provide you the account opening free of charge as a welcome gift to you as a Forum member.

 

[Educate]

Setup Dubai company that grants you the residence visa.

Get an Interactive Brokers Account under the company name.

You are then with the US entity of Interactive Brokers -> no CRS
You setup the UAE bank account with UAE residence -> no CRS
The UAE company is considered as tax resident in UAE-> no CRS

Interesting idea.

How would you transfer the stocks and assets from individual to name of Dubai company in this case?

 

[Fred]

Interesting idea.

How would you transfer the stocks and assets from individual to name of Dubai company in this case?

The Interactive Brokers account will be opened in the name of the Company so the Company will hold the stocks. If you have already stocks under your personal name - Interactive Brokers personal manager will help you to transfer them to the Interactive Brokers account under the company name.

 

[heaven]

Are US personal bank / brokerage account reportable under CRS? I've found one that accepts EU clients with their US entity.

 

[Fred]

Are US personal bank / brokerage account reportable under CRS? I've found one that accepts EU clients with their US entity.

I would not bet on it.

Especially if you use a Broker with subsidiaries within the EU. Do it right and get a zero tax residence before you open an account that they don't have any doubts that you are try to shield CRS with the US entity. You should provide them with proof of address, phone no. and bank account from the zero tax jurisdictions and in case it's possible open under the company name as additional layer of security.

 

[Educate]

The Interactive Brokers account will be opened in the name of the Company so the Company will hold the stocks. If you have already stocks under your personal name - Interactive Brokers personal manager will help you to transfer them to the Interactive Brokers account under the company name.

Would IB really be ok transferring from personal account to corporate one?

You should provide them with proof of address, phone no. and bank account from the zero tax jurisdictions and in case it's possible open under the company name as additional layer of security.

How would one acquire this? It means you pretty much have to live in this jurisdiction, correct?

Is it impossible to just register remotely, visit maybe once and then get a forwarding address at that jurisdiction?

Phone is easy to solve with call forwarding, but how do you do that with address and proof of address documents?

 

[Fred]

Would IB really be ok transferring from personal account to corporate one?


How would one acquire this? It means you pretty much have to live in this jurisdiction, correct?

Is it impossible to just register remotely, visit maybe once and then get a forwarding address at that jurisdiction?

Phone is easy to solve with call forwarding, but how do you do that with address and proof of address documents?

Yes of course if you are the Managing Director of the company it's possible. We did already both ways even with transfering away from Interactive Brokers to Swissquote in UAE with real banking license in Switzerland.

Regarding proof of address you have to understand how the system in the UAE works. There is no postcode system. Let's assume you are staying in the Address Dubai Mall Hotel during your visit in UAE and visa finalisation. You just have to state you Room No. and the Hotel name. It would like in the bank system like this: Room 2500, Address Dubai Mall, Address Boulevard, UAE. Same goes for business bank account. In the case of business bank account there is even less requirement of personal address it's just the business registered address necessary. The banks really tell you in person "use any address".

Everything is centralized. If you need a new debit card you can say to the bank that you want to collect it in the branch. In case you are in the UAE but in other hotel then last time you opened the bank account - the courier will call you anyway to schedule a delivery and asks were you stay and then comes to where you at this moment stay.

Furthermore is everything else from the GoV side done by mail, sms and apps.

You get the UAE phone no. after you have received your residence visa. To keep your residence visa active you have to be in the UAE every 180 days for 24 hours. That's it.

 

[Educate]

Are US personal bank / brokerage account reportable under CRS? I've found one that accepts EU clients with their US entity.

US has not signed CRS, so it is not reporting under CRS laws.
Or this is incorrect?

 

[Educate]

Yes of course if you are the Managing Director of the company it's possible. We did already both ways even with transfering away from Interactive Brokers to Swissquote in UAE with real banking license in Switzerland.

Regarding proof of address you have to understand how the system in the UAE works. There is no postcode system. Let's assume you are staying in the Address Dubai Mall Hotel during your visit in UAE and visa finalisation. You just have to state you Room No. and the Hotel name. It would like in the bank system like this: Room 2500, Address Dubai Mall, Address Boulevard, UAE. Same goes for business bank account. In the case of business bank account there is even less requirement of personal address it's just the business registered address necessary. The banks really tell you in person "use any address".

Everything is centralized. If you need a new debit card you can say to the bank that you want to collect it in the branch. In case you are in the UAE but in other hotel then last time you opened the bank account - the courier will call you anyway to schedule a delivery and asks were you stay and then comes to where you at this moment stay.

Furthermore is everything else from the GoV side done by mail, sms and apps.

You get the UAE phone no. after you have received your residence visa. To keep your residence visa active you have to be in the UAE every 180 days for 24 hours. That's it.

Wow, awesome, you are providing so much value to the forum.

Would you be against answering a few more questions?

1) So let's say one registers a company in Dubai. Dubai would still receive all beneficiary info as per KYC/AML. So Dubai theoretically can send this information to the benficiaries jurisdiction. How would one negate this? Trusts?

2) Ok, so you open a Dubai company and let's say you want to open an InteractiveBrokers or SwissQuote brokerage account with this company. IB and SQ will still require beneficiary info. So they will simply send the information of your company holdings to tax man in your jurisdiction as per CRS. How would one negate this?

3) "Dubai Company Formation with 1 Visa All incl. : 7.000 Euro
Yearly renew of the Company: 4.000 EUR"

These are the costs, so 4000 EUR a year + all the expenses for flights and staying in Dubai the mandatory days per year.

It seems this might be an efficient solution for those who have assets in amount of mid7 to 8 figures.

It seems a little bit too much for those who are in low 7 figures.
Are these prices set in stone?

Again, thank you for your time and help in educating the community

 

[Fred]

Wow, awesome, you are providing so much value to the forum.

Would you be against answering a few more questions?

1) So let's say one registers a company in Dubai. Dubai would still receive all beneficiary info as per KYC/AML. So Dubai theoretically can send this information to the benficiaries jurisdiction. How would one negate this? Trusts?

2) "Dubai Company Formation with 1 Visa All incl. : 7.000 Euro
Yearly renew of the Company: 4.000 EUR"

These are the costs, so 4000 EUR a year + all the expenses for flights and staying in Dubai the mandatory days per year.

It seems this might be an efficient solution for those who have assets in amount of mid7 to 8 figures.

It seems a little bit too much for those who are in low 7 figures.
Are these prices set in stone?

There is no reporting of your KYC/AMal documents from the business authority.

As you open the bank accounts with your residence visa there is no CRS reporting as well.

I don't know were you live but for low 6 figures it's already worth it to setup a Dubai company if you are coming from a central europe tax he'll like Germany/France.

Let's assume you make 100k/year profit and the yearly costs are 4k + flights so let's say 6k. It's 6% tax instead of 40-50% in Germany/France.

In case you have low 7 figures it's more then worth it. I mean even in Germany if you live only from investments you still pay 25% capital gain tax.

Yes the prices are set in stone. The business authority guarantees the fixed renew costs for 3 years.

 

[Educate]

There is no reporting of your KYC/AMal documents from the business authority.

As you open the bank accounts with your residence visa there is no CRS reporting as well.

I don't know were you live but for low 6 figures it's already worth it to setup a Dubai company if you are coming from a central europe tax he'll like Germany/France.

Let's assume you make 100k/year profit and the yearly costs are 4k + flights so let's say 6k. It's 6% tax instead of 40-50% in Germany/France.

In case you have low 7 figures it's more then worth it. I mean even in Germany if you live only from investments you still pay 25% capital gain tax.

Yes the prices are set in stone. The business authority guarantees the fixed renew costs for 3 years.

Thanks for clarification.

I just don't understand this part:
- Isn't any bank in the world or interactive brokers or swissquote obliged by law to collect beneficiary owner information? Therefore even if they see you have registered a corporate account with Dubai incorporated company... they would still receive information that beneficiary owner is from country X. Which they can then share with country X tax office. Or am I missing something?

 

[JackAlabama]

Thanks for clarification.

I just don't understand this part:
- Isn't any bank in the world or interactive brokers or swissquote obliged by law to collect beneficiary owner information? Therefore even if they see you have registered a corporate account with Dubai incorporated company... they would still receive information that beneficiary owner is from country X. Which they can then share with country X tax office. Or am I missing something?

crs goes by the residence and not nationality. Also a data leak or hack can happen anytime these days.
You gotta move for real if you want to be on the safe side.

 

[Fred]

Thanks for clarification.

I just don't understand this part:
- Isn't any bank in the world or interactive brokers or swissquote obliged by law to collect beneficiary owner information? Therefore even if they see you have registered a corporate account with Dubai incorporated company... they would still receive information that beneficiary owner is from country X. Which they can then share with country X tax office. Or am I missing something?

They have on file your UAE resident mobile number, your UAE resident address as well as your UAE company. The IBKR account is under your UAE company name. Yes they have your passport you are citizen from but not any TIN.

So in case you are super ultra paranoid you can change your citizenship as well. Go and buy some St. Kits & Nevis passport an renounce your current citizenship.

I'm a guy from the practive of course you can always escalate a case in theory till the very very end. From my own experience the above mentioned is more then enough.