Offshore Company+Bank account for France

[euphoric13]

Hello everyone
Last year i sold some buildings in my home country in North Africa (hiding the name of country for privacy)
and im interested in investing in European real estate (UK & Germany), and iam planning to live in France to be close to my business..I already have a long term Schengen Visa from Italy that i have to renew every year (no problem with that) and i will live in a house that is registered under the name of my mother's company.
I asked a french lawyer about my situation and he said that i can live in france without being registered as Tax Resident as long as i don't have any administrative papers or such with them (residence papers, insurance contract or even phone line registered under your name) , because you can easily claim that you entered france by airport but you kept traveling around Europe , but he advised me to protect my assets under an offshore company and with an offshore bank in case of any surprises..so before searching for any bureau for this kind of services i wanted to ask the members here for their opinions and suggestions for the best solution.

 

[negon]

You may setup a company either in Belize, Seychelles or St. Kitts with a MisterTango bank account. It's easy and cheap!

 

[W4rhol]

Hello,

First your lawyers tell you some bs. The French Law is very simple, if you live more than 180 days per year in France, so you have to pay your taxes in France. And if you run your offshore company and in the same times you are French Resident, the offshore company have to pay taxes to the French Tax Administration as well.

If you fail in court to proof that you was in "perpetual travel" all around Europe (Visa, Plane/Train Ticket/Hotel reservation for proof what you say), so the French Administration will consider that you was a French Resident.

You have to know that all the meta data of Facebook and Instagram (for example) or the data of your number (when you use the French 3/4G for example) can be used (and will be use) in court against you.

BUT !

If what you have to pay (theoretically) to the French Tax Administration is under 50K euros, they will not move for you. But if you are above, be careful.

 

[JohnLocke]

If what you have to pay (theoretically) to the French Tax Administration is under 50K euros, they will not move for you. But if you are above, be careful.

Sounds like you have some personal experience or knowledge ?

 

[W4rhol]

Sounds like you have some personal experience or knowledge ?

Knowledge

Since 2008 the French Administration take the decision to optimize every cost they can for make money and pay the debt of the state. So they will never move for someone who will cost much more money that he will bring.

That why under a certain amount of fraud to the Tax Administration, you can consider yourself as "safe". Except for one part of the administration who is the "URSSAF".

 

[JohnLocke]

Thank you for clarification and insider information

 

[euphoric13]

Hello,

First your lawyers tell you some bs. The French Law is very simple, if you live more than 180 days per year in France, so you have to pay your taxes in France. And if you run your offshore company and in the same times you are French Resident, the offshore company have to pay taxes to the French Tax Administration as well.

If you fail in court to proof that you was in "perpetual travel" all around Europe (Visa, Plane/Train Ticket/Hotel reservation for proof what you say), so the French Administration will consider that you was a French Resident.

You have to know that all the meta data of Facebook and Instagram (for example) or the data of your number (when you use the French 3/4G for example) can be used (and will be use) in court against you.

BUT !

If what you have to pay (theoretically) to the French Tax Administration is under 50K euros, they will not move for you. But if you are above, be careful.

talked to another lawyer and he said aproximetly the same things you've mentioned, except he added that it's better to register as resident and claim some assets and income to keep the assholes of the FISC away, while keeping the biggest share of assets with trust and offshore companies (if its well structered)

 

[W4rhol]

@euphoric13 It's the kind of answer from a lawyer that I'm agree with. Just check with a tax lawyer which asset is better for be registered for your taxes declaration to the FISC.

 

[diablo]

while keeping the biggest share of assets with trust and offshore companies (if its well structered)

any idea where you will setup the Trust or Foundation yet ?

 

[euphoric13]

any idea where you will setup the Trust or Foundation yet ?

still asking lawyers, people, this forum and the problem that i have is that im not originally from france so i don't know the " elite" here or people with this kind of experiences.Offshore services will always tell you that they are masters in what they do until you appear in some stupid leaks and you get scrwed.My assets aren't small and not extremly huge neither, but it's quit important, and what im really afraid of is appearing in some crap like Panama papers with some stupid offshore service and then get fucked by the FISC in France, this worries me+ the fisc are some agressive assholes, they might go even with spying on everything if they believe taht they can get huge chunck of your money afterwards, and i really like sleeping in the night without worries of this kind...so for now im just getting infos to make up my mind, if the situation doesn't look good i might switch to live as a perpetual traveler in europe and switch time between countries (france,italy,UK)

 

[W4rhol]

still asking lawyers, people, this forum and the problem that i have is that im not originally from france so i don't know the " elite" here or people with this kind of experiences.Offshore services will always tell you that they are masters in what they do until you appear in some stupid leaks and you get scrwed.My assets aren't small and not extremly huge neither, but it's quit important, and what im really afraid of is appearing in some crap like Panama papers with some stupid offshore service and then get fucked by the FISC in France, this worries me+ the fisc are some agressive assholes, they might go even with spying on everything if they believe taht they can get huge chunck of your money afterwards, and i really like sleeping in the night without worries of this kind...so for now im just getting infos to make up my mind, if the situation doesn't look good i might switch to live as a perpetual traveler in europe and switch time between countries (france,italy,UK)

The FISC (French Tax Administration for them who don't know what is it) in a HUGE majority start to lead an investigation only for 3 big reasons :

1 - You was a French living overseas during many years and you want to put back your asset in France

2 - Someone who is close to you or someone you work with and who have trouble with the FISC will give your name (for get smaller fine)

3 - You belongs to the top 1% of the people who have the biggest wealth.

But if I remember good, there is still some country like UK who give you a special tax regime. You should check on this

 

[euphoric13]

The FISC (French Tax Administration for them who don't know what is it) in a HUGE majority start to lead an investigation only for 3 big reasons :

1 - You was a French living overseas during many years and you want to put back your asset in France

2 - Someone who is close to you or someone you work with and who have trouble with the FISC will give your name (for get smaller fine)

3 - You belongs to the top 1% of the people who have the biggest wealth.

But if I remember good, there is still some country like UK who give you a special tax regime. You should check on this

BTW , thanks for your help, i really appreciate it
2- i know about UK non-dom and their tax advantage and everything.London is an international and amazing city but i really hate living in the uk for one reason only: i have 3 sports cars that i really love and they are left handed and they have to be because i like to drive in other european countries where every road is for left handed cars, and ive never liked driving a LHD car in the UK , and i know that it sounds like a silly and stupid reason but that's it.

 

[diablo]

But if I remember good, there is still some country like UK who give you a special tax regime. You should check on this

this I have read a lot on this forum and other places... it may be well worth to look into.

 

[W4rhol]

BTW , thanks for your help, i really appreciate it
2- i know about UK non-dom and their tax advantage and everything.London is an international and amazing city but i really hate living in the uk for one reason only: i have 3 sports cars that i really love and they are left handed and they have to be because i like to drive in other european countries where every road is for left handed cars, and ive never liked driving a LHD car in the UK , and i know that it sounds like a silly and stupid reason but that's it.

No it's not silly and I understand perfectly.

For the UK Tax Free domiciliation, I think there is a required amount. I need to check. But, for now, with the story of Brexit it will be more wise to wait and see if we can get a better deal.

 

[dpastco]

Just a warning in regards to real estate investments (if you will receive rental income). In lots of European countries rental income is taxed where the real estate is located. so even if you are living in France, the German RE will be taxed in Germany, ... how France handles it then, is a matter of double taxation treaties.

But please verify my statement.

 

[euphoric13]

No it's not silly and I understand perfectly.

For the UK Tax Free domiciliation, I think there is a required amount. I need to check. But, for now, with the story of Brexit it will be more wise to wait and see if we can get a better deal.

I was never interested in the UK anyway, i find London a great city for business (spending 24-48H and then leaving) but that's all.
And btw,the lawyer told me that Macron ended the ISF (wealth tax) and its replaced by real estate tax only (same rates)..it sounds like great news but at this point im thinking if living in France permanently is really worth this pain in the a*s, a perpetual traveler with offshore accounts which i don't to declare to any state or governement (except of course the taxes that my companies will pay for the business in that country)..more freedom and less worry about the FISC sending me an invitation to the court