Proof of funds document preparation help

[siontop]

Hello

I am planning in the future to cash out around 100k+/year through Coinbase/Kraken.
I was trading since 2017 using coinbase/bittrex/poloniex/binance but mostly binance(2-3 altcoins)
All cryptos are profits from trading, no weird bitcoin deposits from unknown addresses.


What kind of documents are acceptable as I am trying to prepare everything necessary beforehand ?

I was able to pull data from everywhere (used cointracker and exported as csv -> put it in xlsx file) from my trading activities, however its around 15k+ rows of trades for last 4 years.
I have proofs of my SEPA deposits dating back to 2017 all done through Coinbase (5 digits of total deposits).
Blockchain activity was mostly between exchanges and my personal wallets for holding.
I have CB/BIN/BITTREX/KRAKEN level 2 KYC and never had issues moving coins between them.

So question is what kind of documents are acceptable?
I prefer not to disclose rest of my holdings unless necessary

Mostly looking for personal experience as I know exactly one person which cashed out around low 6 digits and went through bank personal talk.
Situation was different as there was not so much trading.

Thank you

 

[troubled soul]

Assuming that You are cashing out to bank account.
It depends on which bank are you using and Country of residence and your passport.
If It is crypto friendly bank, There will be no problem.


Most important thing you need to find is not "Proof of funds document" but the Crypto friendly bank account.

You can use

Swissquote: Trade Markets with the Swiss Leader in Online Banking

They accept money from any regulated Exchange.

There are another way to crypto cash out in Dubai (tax free).
You can contact @Fred

 

[BoomBoom]

Assuming that You are cashing out to bank account.
It depends on which bank are you using and Country of residence and your passport.
If It is crypto friendly bank, There will be no problem.


Most important thing you need to find is not "Proof of funds document" but the Crypto friendly bank account

Yes, this is true. This forum can let you believe that cashing out of crypto is some impossible task - it is indeed very hard for people hiding from the taxman or got their crypto in some P2P transaction. Your case is pretty simple.
SwissQuote is a very good choice.

The important thing for all crypto friendly banks:
1) you have documentation of original source of funds that bought the first crypto and proper documentation of the trades
2) normal Country of residence and your passport. (non-EU is ok if from low risk country)
3) going to put some significant amount in the first year (~500k preferably)
4) have experience in trading - important for swissquote
5) you not trying to hide your money from anybody - even the taxman
6) your CV and story of how you got into trading crypto makes sense.
7) they may and will ask questions about your other investments and property - you need to be ready to answer everything with supporting documents

only note that swissquote is not a regular bank - you can read about their limitations on the forum here.

 

[rjnnnn]

Hey guys
Thinking about cashing out as well and also reading up on the document preparation

The important thing for all crypto friendly banks:
1) you have documentation of original source of funds that bought the first crypto and proper documentation of the trades
2) normal Country of residence and your passport. (non-EU is ok if from low risk country)
3) going to put some significant amount in the first year (~500k preferably)
4) have experience in trading - important for swissquote
5) you not trying to hide your money from anybody - even the taxman
6) your CV and story of how you got into trading crypto makes sense.
7) they may and will ask questions about your other investments and property - you need to be ready to answer everything with supporting documents

only note that swissquote is not a regular bank - you can read about their limitations on the forum here.

Thank you for the list and I'll definitely look into the limitations of that bank. What do you think I should do if I don't have the proof of the original source of funds? It was bought OTC years ago, the money went from an online poker site, I'm not even sure I even still have that address.
Here's an anecdote: when I wanted to pay taxes in the country I was living back in the day, I asked a "crypto" accountant to look into my history and see how much I should pay. She looked and said she couldn't do it. It was three years ago. Luckily a year later they passed the law allowing you to keep your stable coins tax free so I didn't have to pay anything. I know that nowadays there are professional firms that may be able to make sense out of my transactions but if three years ago it was a mess you can imagine what it is right now.

 

[boomy]

If you have the balls it is pretty easy to get your documents for any source of funds check you may be obligated to.

 

[John Spectre]

Hey guys
Thinking about cashing out as well and also reading up on the document preparation


Thank you for the list and I'll definitely look into the limitations of that bank. What do you think I should do if I don't have the proof of the original source of funds? It was bought OTC years ago, the money went from an online poker site, I'm not even sure I even still have that address.
Here's an anecdote: when I wanted to pay taxes in the country I was living back in the day, I asked a "crypto" accountant to look into my history and see how much I should pay. She looked and said she couldn't do it. It was three years ago. Luckily a year later they passed the law allowing you to keep your stable coins tax free so I didn't have to pay anything. I know that nowadays there are professional firms that may be able to make sense out of my transactions but if three years ago it was a mess you can imagine what it is right now.

Source of Funds for crypto, i.e. how you got the original crypto is more important documents.
Source of Wealth for crypto, i.e. how your crypto rise in cost in time or your trading profit are more or less oblivious thing. Everyone who familiar with crypto from the surface know that you literally could invest 1k USD into crypto and became millionaire, not many people can be surprised at this.

Much more banks could accept crypto as a Source of Wealth.
But much less banks could accept crypto as a Source of Funds. Because tracking and definition who paid crypto for you, from what income you get it, etc - it's a more complex thing. And often it goes beyond blockchain and can't be verified simple like a wallet\transaction of crypto.
As you said, don't having documents how you got original crypto - could be problem for bank and bank could reject you, even if all other things are clean at your side.

 

[rjnnnn]

Source of Funds for crypto, i.e. how you got the original crypto is more important documents.
Source of Wealth for crypto, i.e. how your crypto rise in cost in time or your trading profit are more or less oblivious thing. Everyone who familiar with crypto from the surface know that you literally could invest 1k USD into crypto and became millionaire, not many people can be surprised at this.

Much more banks could accept crypto as a Source of Wealth.
But much less banks could accept crypto as a Source of Funds. Because tracking and definition who paid crypto for you, from what income you get it, etc - it's a more complex thing. And often it goes beyond blockchain and can't be verified simple like a wallet\transaction of crypto.
As you said, don't having documents how you got original crypto - could be problem for bank and bank could reject you, even if all other things are clean at your side.

Yeah that's my understanding too. Thank you!

 

[carz]

This all depends on your jurisdiction and bank. My experience with real banks (in a strict/crypto unfriendly EU country) has been that they want to know the full providence of funds, i.e. starting from how you got the fiat to buy your first crypto; to the full chain of transactions that lead to your current crypto holdings that you are trying to cash out. Even if you have all this information, it still depends on the particular bank - some can't be bothered to go through your documents; others might be prevented from touching crypto by their correspondent bank/s.

This might be different in your jurisdiction, you have to do your research here. There are a lot of posts detailing crypto friendly banks. My experience might be one of the more harsher/pessimistic ones.

Thought: When you think about it there are a lot of reasons that banks might still reject proceeds from crypto; just a small example imagine you swapped some tokens on a dex or liquidity pool. The participants in these technologies are not KYCed (yet). So a bank could refuse you just on this premiss. So you might think "hey, I've got all my documents in order, and all my transactions tracked and documented"... and they still reject you... such is crypto . (I'm assuming a bank would actually go through your transaction history here, which I think is a long shot in itself).

 

[carz]

This all depends on your jurisdiction and bank. My experience with real banks (in a strict/crypto unfriendly EU country) has been that they want to know the full providence of funds, i.e. starting from how you got the fiat to buy your first crypto; to the full chain of transactions that lead to your current crypto holdings that you are trying to cash out. Even if you have all this information, it still depends on the particular bank - some can't be bothered to go through your documents; others might be prevented from touching crypto by their correspondent bank/s.

This might be different in your jurisdiction, you have to do your research here. There are a lot of posts detailing crypto friendly banks. My experience might be one of the more harsher/pessimistic ones.

Thought: When you think about it there are a lot of reasons that banks might still reject proceeds from crypto; just a small example imagine you swapped some tokens on a dex or liquidity pool. The participants in these technologies are not KYCed (yet). So a bank could refuse you just on this premiss. So you might think "hey, I've got all my documents in order, and all my transactions tracked and documented"... and they still reject you... such is crypto . (I'm assuming a bank would actually go through your transaction history here, which I think is a long shot in itself).

Just to add one last thing. In a perfect world, banks would either rely on certain well-regulated fiat-crypto on/off ramps, who have the latest tech to scrub transactions like chainalysis etc.., to vet your proceeds. Or else they should adopt these technologies themselves. Maybe we'll get there in the future.

 

[rjnnnn]

Just to add one last thing. In a perfect world, banks would either rely on certain well-regulated fiat-crypto on/off ramps, who have the latest tech to scrub transactions like chainalysis etc.., to vet your proceeds. Or else they should adopt these technologies themselves. Maybe we'll get there in the future.

Yeah I guess I'm just waiting for them to adopt the technologies as you said. More I learn about banks, also thanks to this forum, less I trust them. Now I'm not even sure if a European bank where you're covered up to 100K is safer than your Binance account in terms of risk-reward (idle cash on your bank account end up loosing its value).
Thank you for mentioning dex and liquidity pools, it might definitely be in issue for me.
As for my jurisdiction, I'm living in Dubai right now but I don't want to deposit any significant amount of money in a bank here. I'm thinking about custody solutions and diversifying along with cashing out.