Question Revolut to German bank what is being reported and to where?

[SirTararam]

Is anyone familiar with bank transactions in Germany? Let's say you do a 15k euro bank transfer from Revolut to a German bank (both accounts have the same owner - revolut doesn't have any tax number if that matters) and it completes successfully, what is the process that is happening at the background?

Are certain amounts being reported to some authority, and how possible if to get into trouble if the amount is not tax declared? Of course I know that there is no safe transaction and everything is monitored, but practically do these "small" amounts get under the radar if they complete successfully in the first place?

Cheers.

 

[Sols]

Unless the transaction triggers an alert in Revolut's or the recipient bank's transaction monitoring systems which in turn leads to a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR), there is no reporting for just a regular SEPA transfer.

The bank you send to might inquire about the source of funds for the 15,000 EUR. If you normally transact in amounts of that magnitude and greater, they will probably not bat an eye at another 15,000 EUR. But if you are just an average retail customer, it will stand out.

 

[SirTararam]

Thanks @Sols . I was under the impression that for "large" amounts coming outside from Germany, customs (Zoll) gets informed from the financial institute receiving them - more or less as if you were bringing this amount in cash in the country. So they are expecting to declare them in your next tax application (Steuererklärung).

A SAR report can exist even if the transaction has completed successfully and no-one has asked you anything about the money?

 

[Sols]

Thanks @Sols . I was under the impression that for "large" amounts coming outside from Germany, customs (Zoll) gets informed from the financial institute receiving them - more or less as if you were bringing this amount in cash in the country. So they are expecting to declare them in your next tax application (Steuererklärung).

You're right, there is an obligation on to report any transactions over 12,5000 EUR to the transaction to the Bundesbank. Superficially it's for statistical purposes but it probably wouldn't be dismissed as evidence in court if the tax authority tries to use it against you.

The fine for non-compliance goes up to 30,000 EUR so just pay the taxes and stop trying to dodge taxes in a place like Germany.

A SAR report can exist even if the transaction has completed successfully and no-one has asked you anything about the money?

It's possible.

 

[Marie Manila]

You're right, there is an obligation on to report any transactions over 12,5000 EUR to the transaction to the Bundesbank.

This is only partially correct.
Not every transaction has to be reported to the Bundesbank. Transactions between residents and non-residents have to be reported.

If a resident of Germany makes a transfer of €50,000 to his own account in Egypt, this is not subject to reporting.
If he then makes a transfer of €15,000 from his own account in Egypt to another resident of Egypt, this must be reported, although the money is only moved within Egypt.

Another example, if a resident of Germany transfers €15,000 to a resident of Egypt with a German account, this must be reported, even though the money remains in Germany.

Third example:
A resident of Germany with an account in Egypt transfers € 20,000 to another resident of Germany to his account in Georgia (or Germany), does not have to be reported because both are residents of Germany.

 

[SirTararam]

This is only partially correct.
Not every transaction has to be reported to the Bundesbank. Transactions between residents and non-residents have to be reported.

If a resident of Germany makes a transfer of €50,000 to his own account in Egypt, this is not subject to reporting.
If he then makes a transfer of €15,000 from his own account in Egypt to another resident of Egypt, this must be reported, although the money is only moved within Egypt.

Another example, if a resident of Germany transfers €15,000 to a resident of Egypt with a German account, this must be reported, even though the money remains in Germany.

Third example:
A resident of Germany with an account in Egypt transfers € 20,000 to another resident of Germany to his account in Georgia (or Germany), does not have to be reported because both are residents of Germany.

I see. However practically this is difficult to be identified by an automated bank system from what I understand. I mean, they can see if the account transferring the money has the same name as the beneficiary, but is this enough for a check in order to know if the two accounts really belong to a resident? Especially if we are talking about a transaction with an EMI.

 

[Marie Manila]

I see. However practically this is difficult to be identified by an automated bank system from what I understand. I mean, they can see if the account transferring the money has the same name as the beneficiary, but is this enough for a check in order to know if the two accounts really belong to a resident? Especially if we are talking about a transaction with an EMI.

If you are doing a SWIFT transfer the address of sender and receiver is included in the SWIFT message.

For SEPA transfers inside EEA only the address of the sender is (or at least can be) included in the SEPA message.
For none-EEA SEPA transfers the address of sender and receiver has to be included as well.

But yes, it is very difficult for a bank to identify this automatically. But it is also not the bank's job, it is the client's job to report it.