Sanctions-hit Iran & Venezuela sign 20-year cooperation deal

[Martin Everson]

How sanctions can bring countries together.

https://news.yahoo.com/iran-venezuela-sign-two-decade-085450573.html
----- quote start

Iran and Venezuela signed a 20-year deal on cooperation between the two allies subject to US sanctions during a visit Saturday to the Islamic republic by Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro.

The inking of the agreement "shows the determination of the high-level officials of the two countries for development of relations in different fields," Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi said.

Maduro, speaking at a joint news conference in Tehran, said the cooperation covered the energy and financial sectors as well as "work together on defence projects".

Alongside the likes of Russia, China, Cuba and Turkey, Iran is one of Venezuela's main allies. And like Venezuela it is subject to tough US sanctions.

"Venezuela has passed hard years but the determination of the people, the officials and the president of the country was that they should resist the sanctions," Raisi said during the news conference.

"This is a good sign that proves to everyone that resistance will work and will force the enemy to retreat," the Iranian president added.

In addition to the 20-year accord inked by the two countries' foreign ministers, "Iran and Venezuela signed documents on cooperation in the political, cultural, tourism, economic, oil and petrochemical fields," state news agency IRNA said.

"We have important projects of cooperation between Iran and Venezuela in the fields of energy, petrochemical, oil, gas and refineries," Maduro said.

- Direct flights -​

From July 18, direct flights would operate between Caracas and Tehran "in order to promote tourism and the union between our countries," he said, adding that "Venezuela is open to receive tourists from Iran".

Iran's president said direct flights would pave the way for enhanced "trade and economic relations as well as bringing the two nations closer together".

The two presidents took part via videoconference in a ceremony marking the delivery of the second of four Iranian-built oil tankers to Venezuela, IRNA reported.

Ties between the two oil producers were strong under late Venezuelan socialist leader Hugo Chavez and have been further bolstered under his successor Maduro.

In May, Iran's Oil Minister Javad Owji met with Maduro during an official visit to Venezuela, which sits on the world's largest proven crude reserves.

Owji also held talks with his Venezuelan counterpart Tareck El Aissami on how best to cope with US economic sanctions.

The oil minister's trip to Venezuela came just weeks after a surprise visit by US officials following the sharp rise in world oil prices triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February.

The US delegation even held a hushed meeting with Maduro, whose very legitimacy as president Washington disputes.

Iran is a major oil producer and said in April that its output capacity was back to the levels seen before the reimposition of US sanctions by president Donald Trump in 2018.

In 2020, Venezuela received two shiploads of fuel and derivatives from Iran to help address chronic domestic shortages.

Iran is the third country Maduro has visited this week after trips to Turkey and Algeria.


----- quote end

 

[Golden Fleece]

It is akin to watching a crime film based on real life events. You are left wondering how such depraved individuals could ever meet each other in real life -- and then go on to commit the most heinous acts.

Wicked acts are like powerful magnets that draw other villains. Dark deeds are a beacon to other evildoers.

As to normal people and nations, what fellowship can light have with darkness?

 

[fortunespeculator]

There is no wicked acts here,these two countries which have been screwed by the us are joining hands.The more the stupidity is committed by us and eu .More nations will join hands and ban these two idiotic areas and cooperate between themselves

 

[Golden Fleece]

There is no wicked acts here.

Then perhaps you should move to one of those totalitarian paradises, become a citizen, and see what happens to you when you do anything that is not sanctioned by your new masters.

First of all, you would not have the ability to freely engage in speech, which is what you are doing right now by defending those monsters. That you could even make such a remark shows that you have no conception of what goes on in those countries -- and that you have no empathy for your fellow man.

 

[Martin Everson]

Ok guys chill on the emotions. Or you know I will bring the hammer down if discussion is all emotion and no logic and reasoning. Thx.

 

[fortunespeculator]

Then perhaps you should move to one of those totalitarian paradises, become a citizen, and see what happens to you when you do anything that is not sanctioned by your new masters.

First of all, you would not have the ability to freely engage in speech, which is what you are doing right now by defending those monsters. That you could even make such a remark shows that you have no conception of what goes on in those countries -- and that you have no empathy for your fellow man.

The fact that both EU and US try to bully not only their own citizens and every other country in the world and you supporting it also speaks loads about your thought process.If it was not ,a high percentage of the OCT members wont be here from the eu and us in the first place trying to protect what is rightfully theirs.I am from India and even here draconian laws exist.I try to side step them and make the best use of what is available all the time working on my plan B.Every country is like a shop they have benefits and they have disadvantages.They should be used accordingly(Utilize all the benefits and side step the negatives including totalitarianism) .Mostly if one keeps a low profile they can side step the negatives. I am sure there are independent thinking , freedom loving people in those two countries as well who know how to side step the negatives in their respective countries. Just like people should not tolerate BS from their own governments ,countries should also not tolerate BS from bullies.The Davids bring down the Goliaths eventually. Hope my statement is not an emotional one Martin.

 

[Golden Fleece]

The fact that both EU and US try to bully not only their own citizens and every other country in the world and you supporting it also speaks loads about your thought process.If it was not ,a high percentage of the OCT members wont be here from the eu and us in the first place trying to protect what is rightfully theirs.I am from India and even here draconian laws exist.I try to side step them and make the best use of what is available all the time working on my plan B.Every country is like a shop they have benefits and they have disadvantages.They should be used accordingly(Utilize all the benefits and side step the negatives including totalitarianism) .Mostly if one keeps a low profile they can side step the negatives. I am sure there are independent thinking , freedom loving people in those two countries as well who know how to side step the negatives in their respective countries. Just like people should not tolerate BS from their own governments ,countries should also not tolerate BS from bullies.The Davids bring down the Goliaths eventually. Hope my statement is not an emotional one Martin.

Every country bullies their own citizens to one degree or another. But to compare the high taxation, over-regulation, and moral degeneracy of the Western nations to the unmitigated horrors of murder, torture, and slavery of the various pariah nations is intellectually dishonest.

BTW: Such moral relativism is one of the hallmarks of the cultural bankruptcy of the Western nations. It is a failure of logic and morality to claim that nobody, and no nation, is objectively right or wrong. Evil does indeed exist in the world -- and nations such as Russia, China, and North Korea prove it on a daily basis. They create alliances amongst each other to maintain control over their long-suffering populations.

On a related note, the Victims of Communism Museum just opened in Washington, D.C., to pay tribute to the over 100 million people brutally murdered by communist regimes during the last century. Such a museum of remembrance is long overdue. As late as the 1980s, one out three people on the planet lived under Communist tyranny.

This was the dedication of the Victims of Communism Museum, honoring the millions who perished under the ham-handed rule of Communist tyrants in Russia, China, North Korea, Eastern Europe, Cuba, and throughout Southeast Asia.

https://www.newsmax.com/john-gizzi/Communism-Russia-China-Poland/2022/06/12/id/1074093/

 

[khinkali]

It is a failure of logic and morality to claim that nobody, and no nation, is objectively right or wrong.

It is a failure of logic and morality to claim that somebody is right or wrong.

The word "objectively" seems to have been tainted in recent times.

The killing of hundreds of children at wedding parties and other places by US drone strikes under Obama got less attention than the murder of a journalist by Saudi Arabia because CNN etc. knew that Obama was an objectively good person and that Saudi rulers are objectively bad.

I hope that the Iran-Venezuela deal helps lead both nations to greater openness and freedom for their people.

 

[CoinMaster]

true, so true

 

[Golden Fleece]

It is a failure of logic and morality to claim that somebody is right or wrong.

The word "objectively" seems to have been tainted in recent times.

The killing of hundreds of children at wedding parties and other places by US drone strikes under Obama got less attention than the murder of a journalist by Saudi Arabia because CNN etc. knew that Obama was an objectively good person and that Saudi rulers are objectively bad.

Obama is not an objectively good person. He is a train wreck, as is Joe Biden. But they are playful kittens compared to someone like Kim Jong-un or Xi Jinping. Your moral relativism entirely misses the point. You cannot compare nations that systematically engage in evil against their own people (e.g., murder, torture, and slavery) with nations that simply make mistakes. It is like comparing a mass murderer or a serial killer to someone who accidentally killed someone in a traffic accident.

I hope that the Iran-Venezuela deal helps lead both nations to greater openness and freedom for their people.

All it will do is prop up the evil leadership of two nations and ensure the continued slavery of their citizens. It seems that Iran must drop an intercontinental nuclear missile on your head (because its leadership believes that they will live in eternal bliss in paradise with seventy virgins) for you to learn the error of your thinking.

 

[khinkali]

Your moral relativism entirely misses the point. You cannot compare nations that systematically engage in evil against their own people (e.g., murder, torture, and slavery) with nations that simply make mistakes.

My moral absolutism is that I believe that it is absolutely wrong to do absolutely wrong things and that I believe that excusing the crimes of our allies while only condemning the crimes of our enemies is exactly what will make us become evil ourselves. Again.

The Russians. The Protestants. The Catholics. The Muslims. The blacks. The gays. The Asians. The Jews. The Tutsi. We have seen this talk before and I despise it.

There can be a good Samaritan, therefore we should not indulge in hatred of The Samaritans.

I don't wish to be too negative about @Golden Fleece, indeed we probably have similar views on the substantive topics. I am very concerned that any of us becomes extreme to the point where we will not question the sins of our allies, or ourselves. I think it is important to keep an eye out for wrongdoing by those with whom we broadly agree, else where will we end up?

Also I generally try to make an effort to stick to the topic of the thread, but in this case....sorry.

 

[Golden Fleece]

There can be a good Samaritan, therefore we should not indulge in hatred of The Samaritans.

No, of course we should not hate Russians, Chinese, Iranians, Venezuelans, or North Koreans. Indeed, most of them are victims who should invoke our pity. But we should despise, and do our best to hinder, those evil governments -- who murder, torture, imprison, and enslave their own people.

indeed we probably have similar views on the substantive topics. I am very concerned that any of us becomes extreme to the point where we will not question the sins of our allies, or ourselves. I think it is important to keep an eye out for wrongdoing by those with whom we broadly agree, else where will we end up?

I agree. I suspect that we hold similar views regarding many other topics. In fact, I am very critical of all Western nations, mostly because they are heading in the same general direction of totalitarian nations. For example, I believe that the EU -- which is not economically viable anyhow -- should disband, and each EU country should advance the best interests of its own citizens.

But I see no moral equivalency between Western Nations and the evil leadership of the various totalitarian nations, who maintain an iron grip through intimidation, fear, prison, torture, and murder.

 

[fortunespeculator]

No, of course we should not hate Russians, Chinese, Iranians, Venezuelans, or North Koreans. Indeed, most of them are victims who should invoke our pity. But we should despise, and do our best to hinder, those evil governments -- who murder, torture, imprison, and enslave their own people.


I agree. I suspect that we hold similar views regarding many other topics. In fact, I am very critical of all Western nations, mostly because they are heading in the same general direction of totalitarian nations. For example, I believe that the EU -- which is not economically viable anyhow -- should disband, and each EU country should advance the best interests of its own citizens.

But I see no moral equivalency between Western Nations and the evil leadership of the various totalitarian nations, who maintain an iron grip through intimidation, fear, prison, torture, and murder.

And with that we see the end of oecd also.That would be the icing on the cake.

 

[khinkali]

@Golden Fleece I agree with most of what you wrote. I just try not to judge the crimes based on who did them, but what they are. The British "dodgy dossier" that was "sexed up" to help the US con other nations to permit an unprovoked invasion was not less bad because the victims' government were seen as part of the axis of evil.

I approve of a trade deal because it can do some good and avoid some harm. I do not approve of the routine theft from and bullying of a population by their rulers in the Venezuelan government.

@fortunespeculator i don't think that OECD will end but it looks like its power will diminish as those in the other, larger portion of humanity find their voices.