Setup for Hosting / Cloud Company

[Hardened0230]

Hi,

I want to start a hosting business. It will operate worldwide and offer VPS and Cloud storage services.

What do you guys think is the best setup for this purpose?

Server will be hosted in Sweden for now but later maybe in other countries too.

I thought Gibraltar could work?

Anyway thanks for your insights

 

[daniels27]

Who is operating the company? Where do you live? How much turnover do you want to make?

If you are a traveller, Gibraltar Guernsey Singapore would work.

 

[Hardened0230]

I live in Germany. Not sure about Singapore, I read that you need lots of fund to get started

 

[daniels27]

I live in Germany. Not sure about Singapore, I read that you need lots of fund to get started

The German Finanzamt is strict, there is not much point in incorporating elsewhere. If you live in Germany, either pay taxes there or move away. You can incorporate anywhere you want, your company will still be a German tax payer as it is managed form Germany.

 

[Jerry1911]

If you are a traveller, Gibraltar Guernsey Singapore would work.

Singapore does not allow adult content

What do you guys think is the best setup for this purpose?

UK LTD with branch office in Germany

 

[linusAG]

Do you want to provide some regular hosting/VPS service or "Privacy VPS"(anti-DMCA VPS)?

 

[Hardened0230]

Do you want to provide some regular hosting/VPS service or "Privacy VPS"(anti-DMCA VPS)?

I do want to focus on privacy.

 

[Forester]

Singapore, I read that you need lots of fund to get started

Well, it depends on what do you call “a lot” Generally, it's, say, moderate – IIRC.

If you live in Germany, there is no big point trying to cheat. Either pay taxes there or move away.

Well, from where you know that the main motivation for the offshore setup is a tax optimization?

You can incorporate anywhere you want, your company will still be a German tax payer as it is managed form Germany.

This is very true.

Singapore does not allow adult content

Well, what about if @Hardened0230 does not want to host adult content?

UK LTD with branch office in Germany

Why not, but ...

Do you want to provide some regular hosting/VPS service or "Privacy VPS"(anti-DMCA VPS)?

I do want to focus on privacy.

this is the core.
So it is necessary to see it from this perspective...

 

[Forester]

@Hardened0230, @daniels27:
Guys, please, note and respect that this is an English speaking forum and avoid posting in any other language, even if it's well meant (I have understood the text and hopefully the motivation/mission ). This is disrespectful (and useless) for many users who cannot understand your content. Regardless of existence of (inaccurate) machine translators, searching becomes impossible, etc.
I've just deleted the German text – feel free to replace it with the English alternatives. Thanks!

 

[daniels27]

I do want to focus on privacy.

Privacy for your company or for your clients. I think as long as you live in Germany, you have to be registered there for tax purposes with your company and therefore, there will be limited privacy for you.

 

[Hardened0230]

Privacy for your company or for your clients. I think as long as you live in Germany, you have to be registered there for tax purposes with your company and therefore, there will be limited privacy for you.

I'm ok with paying taxes. I want to offer privacy for my customers. No hassle with KYC and offering cryptocurrency as payment method

 

[Forester]

I'm ok with paying taxes. I want to offer privacy for my customers.

So you should incorporate either in some country with really strong privacy laws as Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Iceland (and probably more, I do not consider myself being a top-tier expert on this) or in some country where state institutions are really weak (a lot in so-called 3rd world; but there you can face another problems, of course) or in some country where state institutions simply do not care much who is doing what (e.g. some LatAm countries and probably more).

No hassle with KYC and offering cryptocurrency as payment method

Well... KYC for hosting services is, fortunately, /yet / not much demanded – AFAIK. Cryptocurrency is not welcome somewhere but somewhere it is. Simply make a cross-check of privacy vs. just named...

 

[daniels27]

I'm ok with paying taxes. I want to offer privacy for my customers. No hassle with KYC and offering cryptocurrency as payment method

Are all clients doing legal hosting? You probably know that one:

Erst Bundeswehr-Bunker, dann Darknet-Zentrum: Was wird aus dem Cyberbunker?

Ein Cyberbunker an der Mosel war einst das Zentrum von millionenschweren kriminellen Geschäften. Doch was könnte jetzt in die Anlage einziehen? Einige kuriose Ideen gibt es bereits.

www.stern.de

Just beware, the police will eventually chase you if illegal business is involved.

I think for privacy, you can check several options, Switzerland, Sweden (Mulvad VPN), or even the real offshores may be an option. Just make sure you don't chose a place that then turns you over to the German tax authorities. Check this one:

Twelve no/low tax countries share data on companies with no substance with UBO's country

Since March 2021 twelve countries now automatically share information on companies with no economic substance and where beneficial owners are non-resident. I think non-resident folk with companies in the below countries may be in for a letter from their tax man. Anguilla Bahamas Bahrain...

www.offshorecorptalk.com

If you only do crypto payments, you may not need much legal framework such as a company, bank accounts etc. and could easily run it from 3rd world countries.

 

[Sols]

The privacy granted under GDPR is quite robust. What risks do you see with forming a company in Germany that Gibraltar could help with?

If GDPR isn't enough, I suppose you could set up in a place like Nevis and Cook Islands, where foreign court judgments aren't recognized/enforceable without a local court first hearing the matter. So even if for example a French court rules that your Nevis company must disclose information about your customer, the judgment means nothing in Nevis. The matter has to be tried before a Nevis court for anything to happen.

It's quite a headache to run an ecommerce business under such entities, though. You'll struggle with banking and fiat payment processing. There are solutions but if you think Singapore is expensive, I don't know if you're going to like any of the solutions.

 

[daniels27]

I think we need to better understand the OP and his business.

If the services of his customers are illegal, any entity can sell it and he gets crypto. He won't need a company for that. And we should not encourage it as it is illegal to do so.

Let's assume the services of his customers are at least in principle legal. Hence he needs to take illegal things offline as soon as he knows about it. There is no KYC, AML and whatsoever. But he needs to take things down on time. He wants to stay out of any jurisdiction with subpoenas etc. where the government can force him to release details about his clients. Germany is better than the US but also not the first choice for privacy.

Then comes the question of what he has to release should the police come. If all is paid in crypto and their clients use usernames and no email addresses as logins, probably not too much. I guess just login IPs (which in this case are best not to be logged). Given that he lives in Germany and the company would be taxable in Germany and given that should the police come, they would knock on his door in Germany anyway, comes the question whether to use a UK Ltd with a branch office in Germany or a Ltd & Co. KG etc. The benefits are certainly quite limited in this case. Remember Kim Dotcom. he was running enough offshore business, private jets, etc. and still got caught.

In short, he will need a jurisdiction which does no CRS reporting to Germany, maybe the homeless guy setup from Mentor Gold with the UK Ltd. Otherwise a German company will be almost identical and have better payment processing options. If only cryptos are accepted, he has all the freedom and technically would not even need a real company somewhere unreachable.