Question Singapore EntrePass for an owner-managed business?

[Roamer]

I am citizen of one of the two main EU countries but have been residing in the UK for a decade or so. I am planning to potentially move to Singapore (or Hong Kong) with my partner who would get there on a work visa. Not married, might be by the time of the move (2022).

For Singapore, I would need to move my UK limited company there and close the UK one. I would need to move myself there, too, as resident.

• Business model is Amazon Associates and Ads
• Yearly profits before taxes at £150/200k
• Sole shareholder, sole director, sole employee
• Several freelancers from around the globe
• My net cash reserves at the time of moving (2022) would be ~£250,000

What would be the best way to become a Singaporean resident and set-up business there?

The EntrePass for Entrepreneur seems good but I have never sold a business, never gotten funding, and my track record is that one business which is profitable but nothing startup-y or hypergrowth-y which, I assume, is the target for the visa. The bottom-line is, I am not sure I am eligible for that one... Anybody has experience with EntrePass?

Details for entrepass at mom.gov.sg/passes-and-permits/entrepass/eligibility

 

[JackAlabama]

I am citizen of one of the two main EU countries but have been residing in the UK for a decade or so. I am planning to potentially move to Singapore (or Hong Kong) with my partner who would get there on a work visa. Not married, might be by the time of the move (2022).

For Singapore, I would need to move my UK limited company there and close the UK one. I would need to move myself there, too, as resident.

• Business model is Amazon Associates and Ads
• Yearly profits before taxes at £150/200k
• Sole shareholder, sole director, sole employee
• Several freelancers from around the globe
• My net cash reserves at the time of moving (2022) would be ~£250,000

What would be the best way to become a Singaporean resident and set-up business there?

The EntrePass for Entrepreneur seems good but I have never sold a business, never gotten funding, and my track record is that one business which is profitable but nothing startup-y or hypergrowth-y which, I assume, is the target for the visa. The bottom-line is, I am not sure I am eligible for that one... Anybody has experience with EntrePass?

Details for entrepass at mom.gov.sg/passes-and-permits/entrepass/eligibility

Singapore just made contract tracing mandatory by using their spy app or their token, plus it is a dictatorship (which I have not much against per se) and they have some weird quirks about health, cleanliness and hygiene. (i am talking 2014 here).
Singapore reveals Covid privacy data available to police

They also do not give out pr easily as it used to be.
Also the banks have become more strict there and I heard they hassle you for kyc a lot. (which I cannot say in HK) and also the territorial tax is a bit weird, so you might gotta pay their 17%.

Your cash reserves are ok, but nothing to give you much special treatment.
The income is good and it should allow a quite nice lifestyle although I am not up to date with recent 2021 prices. But doubt you should face any issues.

My advice is to forget the entrepass. Go for the workpass (I forgot the name of it). You need around 6k $ salary paid to yourself (might be higher now) and off you go. Plus all the bs tests and health checks etc.
The entrepass is if you want to build the next facebook or uber or a quantum computer or something along the line.

1. Incorporate the company (open the account)
2. Transfer the companies money there and let it earn something
2. Apply for the workpass for yourself

I would go to Hong Kong, hands down. All the problems and fuzz withstanding, they are a strong bunch of people and are well versed in dealing with several hardship whereas Singapore is more like a zoo and I cannot see them executing any kind of strength.
However, it is very modern, all newly built, very safe (although things get stolen), looks clean and not much roughness. Also year round very hot and sunny and you can go to the artificial beaches easily and have a drink at tanjong beach club.

I am familiar with both and heavily biased here, having spent significant time in each. I kept my ties with HK but ditched SG and never looked back after they become way too much over the top to work with. HK also lets you operate nicely as non-resident and as a trading hub with a lot of history, they are understanding of the business woes.
I expect HK to be even easier to deal with after all the hardship they went thru.

You might also want to read about kiasu Kiasu - Wikipedia to further understand their thinking before making such a move in the midst of changing times. This attitute is completely missing in HK.

It depends on your personality which one you like and hate. From my experience, it is polarizing and each type of personality likes just one place (they have many similarities too in their workings).

 

[Roamer]

@JackAlabama many many thanks for your helpful reply!

The KYC does not bother me as I am rather squeaky clean. I am just tired of taxes here in the UK and my partner's family living in the region, we are happy to be in Asia as long as it is Singapore, or HK. The main appeal beside loving both countries is the tax-free dividends. It frees up a lot of cash that's being eaten by local income taxes here in the UK.

1. Incorporate the company (open the account)
2. Transfer the companies money there and let it earn something
2. Apply for the workpass for yourself

So you recommend I setup the company over there before moving myself. Once the company is setup and trading, I then apply for an Employment Pass and if/once granted, I settle there. Real bummer if it gets rejected, though.

The entrepass is if you want to build the next facebook or uber or a quantum computer or something along the line.

I definitely felt like it was the case. EntrePass feels like it is for high-calibre profiles, which I am not, and nor is my business.

I would go to Hong Kong, hands down.

Partner has family in both countries. Whilst Singapore is not cheap, HK was a tad intense (I spent a few weeks in there and prospected) to own your place. I'd happily go to HK, too. We're really assessing both options especially for me as I am the one with an odd situation to request a visa in either countries. And whilst the business is profitable, it's no magic startup unicorn, nor do I want it to be or sell it as such.

@JackAlabama do you think a visa for HK would be easier to get so I can setup and run my business from HK?

 

[JackAlabama]

@JackAlabama many many thanks for your helpful reply!

The KYC does not bother me as I am rather squeaky clean. I am just tired of taxes here in the UK and my partner's family living in the region, we are happy to be in Asia as long as it is Singapore, or HK. The main appeal beside loving both countries is the tax-free dividends. It frees up a lot of cash that's being eaten by local income taxes here in the UK.


So you recommend I setup the company over there before moving myself. Once the company is setup and trading, I then apply for an Employment Pass and if/once granted, I settle there. Real bummer if it gets rejected, though.


I definitely felt like it was the case. EntrePass feels like it is for high-calibre profiles, which I am not, and nor is my business.


Partner has family in both countries. Whilst Singapore is not cheap, HK was a tad intense (I spent a few weeks in there and prospected) to own your place. I'd happily go to HK, too. We're really assessing both options especially for me as I am the one with an odd situation to request a visa in either countries. And whilst the business is profitable, it's no magic startup unicorn, nor do I want it to be or sell it as such.

@JackAlabama do you think a visa for HK would be easier to get so I can setup and run my business from HK?

Of course are we all clean but this does not matter. In the eyes of the gov we are all guilty until proven otherwise . It just sucks that SG takes these regulations quite serioulsy. Not just kyc but about everything.

If you want to buy your place you need to move far out in HK. But you do not commute, so you can stay in the new territories. They are nicer anyway.

I would be very tempted to say HK might roll out the red carpet if you apply for a residency visa AND really want to live there. Last time I was there during riot and the hotels were empty and I could get upgrades left and right.

And yes. This is the common route to do it in many places. Set up company first and then this company sponsors your work / residence visa.

Well it looks to me it depends now mostly on your personal taste which place you will feel like home and if you like year round hot or just half year hot and prefer something remotely like winter.

Buying RE in Chinese cities is a rough thing when you do not have $ M+ to spend. You should qualify for mortgage in HK though, about 60% or something can (eventually) be financed.

HK is way cheaper than SG if you know where to look for it (mostly in the local or Chinese areas) and Shenzen is nearby (pre 2020, that was a huge plus). Now I doubt it is useful.

I for myself can answer it where I was to go if I wanted to live in Asia again.

 

[Roamer]

And yes. This is the common route to do it in many places. Set up company first and then this company sponsors your work / residence visa.

Had not realised one could self-sponsor through a company. Many interrogations about this process, if you do not mind!

So, I would need to setup the business without being resident myself initially. Incorporate, open a bank account, and start trading. Then, apply for an Employment Pass (as Director/CEO for the company I created and I am the sole shareholder of, with a salary of S$15,000).

• Am I only a shareholder with a nominee director in the meantime?
• How long after the company starts trading can I apply?
• What to do and where to be in the meantime?
  • In SG with 90-day visa free stays (and visa-runs)?
  • In the UK whilst this gets sorted
• What if the Employment Pass gets declined...? (and my partner is then already there employed)

I totally understand these are questions for a Singaporean immigration lawyer (if you know good ones... let me know!) but just want to have as much background understanding before speaking to a few.

As per HK... it was my first choice but partner seems to be a lot keener on SG for many personal reasons and I am the one asking for a move so, compromising I guess

 

[JackAlabama]

Had not realised one could self-sponsor through a company. Many interrogations about this process, if you do not mind!

So, I would need to setup the business without being resident myself initially. Incorporate, open a bank account, and start trading. Then, apply for an Employment Pass (as Director/CEO for the company I created and I am the sole shareholder of, with a salary of S$15,000).

• Am I only a shareholder with a nominee director in the meantime?
• How long after the company starts trading can I apply?
• What to do and where to be in the meantime?
  • In SG with 90-day visa free stays (and visa-runs)?
  • In the UK whilst this gets sorted
• What if the Employment Pass gets declined...? (and my partner is then already there employed)

I totally understand these are questions for a Singaporean immigration lawyer (if you know good ones... let me know!) but just want to have as much background understanding before speaking to a few.

As per HK... it was my first choice but partner seems to be a lot keener on SG for many personal reasons and I am the one asking for a move so, compromising I guess

That move is quite important. Especially if you want to live in a track and trace dictatorship. SG is pretty ruthless and dubbed disneyland with the death penalty.
I would really think about twice if that is the right place these days.

If your heart beats for HK I would go there. Also their visa is surely considerably easier now.

* You need one local SG PR as director, but the incorporator provides that. You are shareholder and can be a director as well.
* You can do visa runs to johor but in convid times, i do not know if that is feasable.
* I would say right away. They are very fast. The whole process should be done within a week easily.
* I am not sure with the bank account opening. They insisted on a personal visit. So plan that accordingly.
* If declined you can appeal. But if declined again, it is a no no and the holy land of Singas do not want you. I doubt that though for your salary which is pretty high even for their precious island. (PR gets declined often however so bear that in mind. I knew cases 3 years ago which have been declined even with Singapore relatives, so they are strict now).

Can you shoot me a dm? I can send you some contacts over. But its a run off the mill operation no need for complicated setups.

 

[Roamer]

Can you shoot me a dm?

Doesn't seem like I can, odd..?

If your heart beats for HK I would go there. Also their visa is surely considerably easier now.

It would also be a lot easier for my partner to get there, a lot lot easier..... But some factors make Singapore more interesting (and much less stressful). Even if we choose SG, we would be in HK several times a year due to these factors (visit her family).

* I am not sure with the bank account opening. They insisted on a personal visit. So plan that accordingly.

Personal visits are really not an issue. The move would be in 2022 so once the world and the virus calm down, I can start visiting to set things up in either country.

* You need one local SG PR as director, but the incorporator provides that. You are shareholder and can be a director as well.

I incorporate, I set myself as director (non-resident), I set a nominee director (resident), and then I apply for an Employment Pass as "CEO" for my company. Then, once/if accepted, I remove the nominee director. That's how I understand events should unfold?

In your opinion, how long after the company starts trading can I apply? (So the MoM doesn't see the company as a ghost... and declines.)

 

[JackAlabama]

Doesn't seem like I can, odd..?


It would also be a lot easier for my partner to get there, a lot lot easier..... But some factors make Singapore more interesting (and much less stressful). Even if we choose SG, we would be in HK several times a year due to these factors (visit her family).


Personal visits are really not an issue. The move would be in 2022 so once the world and the virus calm down, I can start visiting to set things up in either country.


I incorporate, I set myself as director (non-resident), I set a nominee director (resident), and then I apply for an Employment Pass as "CEO" for my company. Then, once/if accepted, I remove the nominee director. That's how I understand events should unfold?

In your opinion, how long after the company starts trading can I apply? (So the MoM doesn't see the company as a ghost... and declines.)

You can fund the company with 100k and start paying yourself right away. All done. And then gradually making money along the way. Show can go on right away.

You needed a singapore PR as director in 2016 or so already. So you cannot remove them anyway as pr is hard to get.
You can check with an agent or lawyer on what has changed. I am not up to date any more on SG, but I highly doubt they made anything easier.
6 years back things were a lot easier there and depending on what you do you could do trips all over with relatively low hassle.

Pre 2020, that would work, but who knows if next year is going back to normal as it was. I have my doubts about asia.

Well, if your personal factors speak strongly for SG than go for that one.

 

[cyprusbanker]

You can get killed in Singapore if you dump a chewing gum on the floor. Singapore is only for people into SM or other pain, no one will want to move their of their own free will.

 

[JackAlabama]

You can get killed in Singapore if you dump a chewing gum on the floor. Singapore is only for people into SM or other pain, no one will want to move their of their own free will.

Well it is a strange place after all. The moniker disneyland with death penalty is spot on.
Now add some contract tracing into the mix and off you go.
Even though its is happy and honky dory most of the time and easy to network, actually pulling something off is quite tough.