Taking up residence in North Cyprus ...

[Piano]

Anyone knows how easy/difficult it is ?

since North Cyprus is not recognised by most countries , could you face issues like opening accounts with brokers/banks ?

what are the taxes overthere ?

 

[Pembroke]

I know Cyprus well having lived there and Northern Cyprus is a strange animal. It’s there but officially it’s occupied territory from a Greek Cypriot point of view and the UN does not recognise it. Only Turkey does. You’re outside normal EU law protection. You can live there but you’re on your own in case of problems. Some criminals choose to live there as the TRNC has no extradition treaties. There are fake Mcdonalds, fake universities, etc they don’t care. The economy lives on support from Turkey as there is an official boycot from the rest of the world. Guess you can open bank accounts with Turkish banks but certainly not with Western banks. It’s one of those few countries not covered
by your car insurance so you buy separate insurance at the border. You’re at the mercy of the local regime. With the right connections you’ll be fine there; i think they have one year visums you can apply for. No idea about local taxes.

 

[NeedAnExit]

Also interested in this. Currently UK citizen with UK family, resident in UK, contracting for a US entity via a UK Ltd of which I am sole shareholder/director.

Few drives to move:
1 - Fed up of awful weather and general "cultural decline" factors in UK
2 - Have substantial capital gains to realise
3 - Need somewhere with affordable visa, property, and schools

Malta is an option, but it's very small and visa + property costs would mean a real downgrade in housing quality, even if we went to Gozo. Expats on the forums I've read are pretty down on the crowding and concrete everywhere. Also seems to be a real issue with actually getting the visa as a TCN (non-EU citizen) - months of hassle and chasing.

"Normal" south Cyprus also an option but property + schools much less of a bargain, and now post-brexit the visa/residency is harder.

Have found it very difficult to understand the situation on capital gains in TRNC. Any pointers appreciated.

Income tax looks quite steep, seems like evasion by the locals is widespread. I'm not hugely keen on moving somewhere only to immediately start committing criminal breaches of their tax law. On the other hand, I could potentially not take very much taxable income for several years, *if* the capital gains tax situation is friendly; I could realise my gains and let my income continue to roll up inside the UK Ltd.

I'm not desperate to be rid of the UK Ltd - the admin is quite simple and 19% corporation tax is not the end of the world. More focussed on finding somewhere else to live than shaving the tax bill right down to zero.

Not sure how much hassle there would be continuing to operate the UK Ltd from TRNC - whether banks would want to close its account for non-resident director, for example.

My understanding, from reading around, is that TRNC has significant areas of organised crime - the brothel "nightclubs" and casinos - and people who have moved there from other countries to escape prosecution. However, the sort of crime which affects quality of life - burglaries, low-level disorder/anti-social behaviour, violence - is very low. Would like to hear other perspectives.

The isolation means no Amazon, IKEA, Lidl/Aldi; slow internet; awkward flight connections; the Internet speed is a bit slower; the work ethic is old fashioned "mediterranean" and things happen slowly; there are power cuts, everything is a little more hassle. But the people on expat forums seem pretty happy overall. Some of these things can be mitigated by crossing the land border to South Cyprus - however this is not guaranteed to always be available, there are normal customs limits on importing stuff; you can have to queue.

Be careful about buying property. When Turkey invaded, lots of Greek property owners were thrown off their property and legal action by them in the UK or rest of the EU is a real risk. It's super-cheap though.

How would one come by "the right connections" to have a good time in TRNC?

 

[CyprusLaw]

Also interested in this. Currently UK citizen with UK family, resident in UK, contracting for a US entity via a UK Ltd of which I am sole shareholder/director.

Few drives to move:
1 - Fed up of awful weather and general "cultural decline" factors in UK
2 - Have substantial capital gains to realise
3 - Need somewhere with affordable visa, property, and schools

Malta is an option, but it's very small and visa + property costs would mean a real downgrade in housing quality, even if we went to Gozo. Expats on the forums I've read are pretty down on the crowding and concrete everywhere. Also seems to be a real issue with actually getting the visa as a TCN (non-EU citizen) - months of hassle and chasing.

"Normal" south Cyprus also an option but property + schools much less of a bargain, and now post-brexit the visa/residency is harder.

Have found it very difficult to understand the situation on capital gains in TRNC. Any pointers appreciated.

Income tax looks quite steep, seems like evasion by the locals is widespread. I'm not hugely keen on moving somewhere only to immediately start committing criminal breaches of their tax law. On the other hand, I could potentially not take very much taxable income for several years, *if* the capital gains tax situation is friendly; I could realise my gains and let my income continue to roll up inside the UK Ltd.

I'm not desperate to be rid of the UK Ltd - the admin is quite simple and 19% corporation tax is not the end of the world. More focussed on finding somewhere else to live than shaving the tax bill right down to zero.

Not sure how much hassle there would be continuing to operate the UK Ltd from TRNC - whether banks would want to close its account for non-resident director, for example.

My understanding, from reading around, is that TRNC has significant areas of organised crime - the brothel "nightclubs" and casinos - and people who have moved there from other countries to escape prosecution. However, the sort of crime which affects quality of life - burglaries, low-level disorder/anti-social behaviour, violence - is very low. Would like to hear other perspectives.

The isolation means no Amazon, IKEA, Lidl/Aldi; slow internet; awkward flight connections; the Internet speed is a bit slower; the work ethic is old fashioned "mediterranean" and things happen slowly; there are power cuts, everything is a little more hassle. But the people on expat forums seem pretty happy overall. Some of these things can be mitigated by crossing the land border to South Cyprus - however this is not guaranteed to always be available, there are normal customs limits on importing stuff; you can have to queue.

Be careful about buying property. When Turkey invaded, lots of Greek property owners were thrown off their property and legal action by them in the UK or rest of the EU is a real risk. It's super-cheap though.

How would one come by "the right connections" to have a good time in TRNC?

You should consider only Cyprus as an option and not the occupied part. In this respect I note the following:

(a) 'TRNC' is not a valid name as only Turkey recognises them.

(b) The properties are so cheap because as you correctly pointed out they were 'stolen' during the invasion.

(c) Having in mind that discussions for a solution to be found (including how properties will be dealt with) are ongoing, any investment in the occupied part is a risk.

Cyprus has very good opportunities for properties, with 0 risk, you can get a permanent residence though a qualifying investment, and after 5 years you could get citizenship. It gives you a nice place to live, access to EU and a very attractive tax regime.

Thousands of UK residents are coming to live in Cyprus, as the two countries have very close relations.

 

[Pembroke]

You should consider only Cyprus as an option and not the occupied part. In this respect I note the following:

(a) 'TRNC' is not a valid name as only Turkey recognises them.

(b) The properties are so cheap because as you correctly pointed out they were 'stolen' during the invasion.

(c) Having in mind that discussions for a solution to be found (including how properties will be dealt with) are ongoing, any investment in the occupied part is a risk.

Cyprus has very good opportunities for properties, with 0 risk, you can get a permanent residence though a qualifying investment, and after 5 years you could get citizenship. It gives you a nice place to live, access to EU and a very attractive tax regime.

Thousands of UK residents are coming to live in Cyprus, as the two countries have very close relations.

I would certainly not refer to Greek Cyprus properties as 0 risk. It's a big adventure to buy Cyprus property at the best of times given the delays with title deeds and I would advise people to only consider older properties where an individual title deed already exists and not new developments (the ones aimed at foreign buyers). We were lucky at the time that our title deed was issued (>10 years after it was built which was a bit the norm for a small development...) just before we wanted to sell but there are thousands of cases of people trapped by developers who sold properties, received the money but still kept a mortgage on it for other projects and remained the 'official' title deed owner as long as new deeds were not issued. And often it's impossible to get the deeds as the developer might have done something wrong on a different property than yours but part of the same project, therefore no certificate of approval is issued for the project and the title deed can not be divided and will not be issued for the purchase you paid for x years ago. The developer is not in a hurry as he uses your property as mortgage for other projects. It's a big mess really. They will probably argue that it's different now but don't believe them. Only buy properties with an existing individual title deed. More about it here: Cyprus Property | Are you Missing the Title Deeds of your House, Villa, Apartment.

 

[CyprusLaw]

I would certainly not refer to Greek Cyprus properties as 0 risk. It's a big adventure to buy Cyprus property at the best of times given the delays with title deeds and I would advise people to only consider older properties where an individual title deed already exists and not new developments (the ones aimed at foreign buyers). We were lucky at the time that our title deed was issued (>10 years after it was built which was a bit the norm for a small development...) just before we wanted to sell but there are thousands of cases of people trapped by developers who sold properties, received the money but still kept a mortgage on it for other projects and remained the 'official' title deed owner as long as new deeds were not issued. And often it's impossible to get the deeds as the developer might have done something wrong on a different property than yours but part of the same project, therefore no certificate of approval is issued for the project and the title deed can not be divided and will not be issued for the purchase you paid for x years ago. The developer is not in a hurry as he uses your property as mortgage for other projects. It's a big mess really. They will probably argue that it's different now but don't believe them. Only buy properties with an existing individual title deed. More about it here: Cyprus Property | Are you Missing the Title Deeds of your House, Villa, Apartment.

Just to clarify something, not all developers do this, if you pick a 'good' developer then these issues will not arise. The important thing before purchasing a new development is to seek advice from a lawyer in order to check that (i) there is no mortgage; (ii) the permit applications have been submitted and to review what has been submitted. Also, always try to leave a part of the payment for when the title is issued.

I personally have bought a property recently, we had the title within 6-8 months, it took a lot of careful DD to find a good developer without any mortgage on the property, but I note that there are quite a lot of them in the market. The problem was that when the property market was booming (due to the golden passports) a lot of people who just had some empty land went and borrowed money to built properties to sell for passports, this created all these issues with the titles.

I note that recently regulations where amended so that permits and titles etc are issues much faster.

 

[Pembroke]

There are ways to mitigate the title deed risk but it remains a risk to buy without title deed. You rely on the developer to obtain a certificate of approval for the work he has done. Whether he gets it or not is a factor beyond your control as it's sufficient that after having sold your house he does something irregular on a different property part of the same development to also stop your title deed from being issued as there is first one big title deed for the whole project. Well done to get a title that quickly, I never heard of that. A lot depends on relations. Maybe your developer has these relations (or paid the right people). I have a friend who bought a property in 2006 and she's still waiting. In the meantime you have to hope the developer does not go bankrupt and you cannot sell your property as most people now no longer look at properties where no deed has been issued yet.

 

[CyprusLaw]

There are ways to mitigate the title deed risk but it remains a risk to buy without title deed. You rely on the developer to obtain a certificate of approval for the work he has done. Whether he gets it or not is a factor beyond your control as it's sufficient that after having sold your house he does something irregular on a different property part of the same development to also stop your title deed from being issued as there is first one big title deed for the whole project. Well done to get a title that quickly, I never heard of that. A lot depends on relations. Maybe your developer has these relations (or paid the right people). I have a friend who bought a property in 2006 and she's still waiting. In the meantie you have to hope the developer does not go bankrupt and you cannot sell your property as most people now no longer look at properties where no deed has been issued yet.

Indeed it is a risk, generally purchase a new development may have issues (both in terms of titles and in terms of the actual development), hence it is very important to try to find trustworthy developers, maybe they are not many but they are out there, so having a good advisor in Cyprus (especially if you will be abroad during the purchase process) is very important. If you or anyone else is interested in purchasing property in Cyprus I would be very happy to connect you and/or propose some developers. I note that I have no connection with the construction section, but as I told you I recently made a purchase for me as well as some other investment in real estate so I have researched this quite a lot.

 

[Piano]

Also interested in this. Currently UK citizen with UK family, resident in UK, contracting for a US entity via a UK Ltd of which I am sole shareholder/director.

Few drives to move:
1 - Fed up of awful weather and general "cultural decline" factors in UK
2 - Have substantial capital gains to realise
3 - Need somewhere with affordable visa, property, and schools

Malta is an option, but it's very small and visa + property costs would mean a real downgrade in housing quality, even if we went to Gozo. Expats on the forums I've read are pretty down on the crowding and concrete everywhere. Also seems to be a real issue with actually getting the visa as a TCN (non-EU citizen) - months of hassle and chasing.

"Normal" south Cyprus also an option but property + schools much less of a bargain, and now post-brexit the visa/residency is harder.

Have found it very difficult to understand the situation on capital gains in TRNC. Any pointers appreciated.

Income tax looks quite steep, seems like evasion by the locals is widespread. I'm not hugely keen on moving somewhere only to immediately start committing criminal breaches of their tax law. On the other hand, I could potentially not take very much taxable income for several years, *if* the capital gains tax situation is friendly; I could realise my gains and let my income continue to roll up inside the UK Ltd.

I'm not desperate to be rid of the UK Ltd - the admin is quite simple and 19% corporation tax is not the end of the world. More focussed on finding somewhere else to live than shaving the tax bill right down to zero.

Not sure how much hassle there would be continuing to operate the UK Ltd from TRNC - whether banks would want to close its account for non-resident director, for example.

My understanding, from reading around, is that TRNC has significant areas of organised crime - the brothel "nightclubs" and casinos - and people who have moved there from other countries to escape prosecution. However, the sort of crime which affects quality of life - burglaries, low-level disorder/anti-social behaviour, violence - is very low. Would like to hear other perspectives.

The isolation means no Amazon, IKEA, Lidl/Aldi; slow internet; awkward flight connections; the Internet speed is a bit slower; the work ethic is old fashioned "mediterranean" and things happen slowly; there are power cuts, everything is a little more hassle. But the people on expat forums seem pretty happy overall. Some of these things can be mitigated by crossing the land border to South Cyprus - however this is not guaranteed to always be available, there are normal customs limits on importing stuff; you can have to queue.

Be careful about buying property. When Turkey invaded, lots of Greek property owners were thrown off their property and legal action by them in the UK or rest of the EU is a real risk. It's super-cheap though.

How would one come by "the right connections" to have a good time in TRNC?

More than 10000 British expats living in N-Cyprus , creditwestbank even has a expat devision , search a bit on the internet or go there , if I find something , will post here

 

[Pembroke]

Indeed it is a risk, generally purchase a new development may have issues (both in terms of titles and in terms of the actual development), hence it is very important to try to find trustworthy developers, maybe they are not many but they are out there, so having a good advisor in Cyprus (especially if you will be abroad during the purchase process) is very important. If you or anyone else is interested in purchasing property in Cyprus I would be very happy to connect you and/or propose some developers. I note that I have no connection with the construction section, but as I told you I recently made a purchase for me as well as some other investment in real estate so I have researched this quite a lot.

Cyprus property titles delays have even contributed to poetry https://cyprus-mail.com/2021/03/28/a-poem-to-title-deeds-misdeeds/