Thai tax residency certificate without spending 180+ days in the country?

[JustAnotherNomad]

Is it possible to obtain a Thai tax residency certificate without spending 180+ days in the country, for example if you get a local job and pay some tax?

 

[troubled soul]

buy rental property........they provide your tax id (Not Tax residence certi) without spending one day in Thailand.....

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

Are you for real?

- Hello, I would like to buy a car.
- You can buy cat, much cheaper, only one letter difference. Almost same thing.

 

[scooterguy]

You can easily get a tax ID, but in order to get the tax residence certificate you need to pay tax and also spend over 180 days in the country. Official information: Certificate of Residence (Individual Taxpayer).

 

[jafo]

buy rental property........they provide your tax id (Not Tax residence certi) without spending one day in Thailand.....

Could you tell me more about this, please?

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

Could you tell me more about this, please?

If you're not a tax resident (=if you don't live in a place), you typically have to pay taxes only on local income, such as rental income.
To pay your taxes, you have to submit a tax return. On the tax return, you have to provide some number to identify yourself - a tax ID (ITIN in the US, CPF in Brazil, ...).
So it's typically very, very easy to obtain a tax ID as a nonresident, you just have to create a situation where you owe taxes, possibly not even that.
Such an ID proves absolutely nothing to nobody as anyone can apply for it.

 

[Reawake]

What do you need the tax residency certificate for? If it's for example, just to open a bank account, there might be easier ways.

 

[jafo]

there might be easier ways.

How so?

 

[Reawake]

There are agencies located in Phuket and Pattaya which can help you to easily open a Thai bank account even without RC

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

What do you need the tax residency certificate for? If it's for example, just to open a bank account, there might be easier ways.

Tax treaty benefits.

 

[Mike Forman]

There are agencies located in Phuket and Pattaya which can help you to easily open a Thai bank account even without RC

Any recommended beside Siam legal?

 

[Buttout]

Opening a bank account/buying a car/etc. doesn't require a *tax* residence certificate. It (sometimes) requires a residence certificate, which you can get at any immigration office for 500 baht even if you're currently staying at a hotel for a few days.

 

[Marzio]

Is it possible to obtain a Thai tax residency certificate without spending 180+ days in the country

Not possible.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

Not possible.

Guess we're back to your Google Sheet then - which country has good tax benefits with a short stay, while also having a good treaty network?

 

[Marzio]

which country has good tax benefits with a short stay, while also having a good treaty network?

What is emerging from the territorial taxation sheet is that Malaysia has one of the lowest amount of days to tax residency (90), has a good treaty network (but not sure if you are looking for a treaty with a country in particular) and apparently the government will leave you alone (but this has to be verified).

Second best is Portugal under NHR where there isn't a minimum amount of days to be spent in the country but then again, as you know, is a jurisdiction that works well for passive income so if you work actively for the company and you are the only shareholder / director then you enter in the high voltage zone.

Look i'm by no means a UAE expert but since you said that you like UAE did you think about forming an offshore company (US LLC for example) use the UAE remote worker visa and hire a director for your US LLC in a location where the government doesn't care like Thailand, Malaysia, Panama or some African country?

In this way you can be paid a tax free salary in UAE and the company isn't considered tax resident in UAE because is managed offshore.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

What is emerging from the territorial taxation sheet is that Malaysia has one of the lowest amount of days to tax residency (90), has a good treaty network (but not sure if you are looking for a treaty with a country in particular) and apparently the government will leave you alone (but this has to be verified).

I've heard that even people who have lived in Malaysia for 20 years and are well-integrated are now moving. Seems like it's not a good place for foreigners anymore.

Second best is Portugal under NHR where there isn't a minimum amount of days to be spent in the country but then again, as you know, is a jurisdiction that works well for passive income so if you work actively for the company and you are the only shareholder / director then you enter in the high voltage zone.

Yeah, but then you need substance somewhere else. Seems like Malta/Cyprus are the most interesting options, but then you're looking at 5% tax + substance + accounting.

Look i'm by no means a UAE expert but since you said that you like UAE did you think about forming an offshore company (US LLC for example) use the UAE remote worker visa and hire a director for your US LLC in a location where the government doesn't care like Thailand, Malaysia, Panama or some African country?

Yes, I've thought about that, but:
1. How to find such a director?
2. If you get a local (e.g. a Thai director in Thailand) - would they really not care? I would think that it increases the risk.
3. If you do any kind of work for the company in the UAE, then there's a major risk that there's a taxable PE for the company. So I can't imagine a digital nomad visa would work.
4. The UAE doesn't have such a good tax treaty network, so in the end, the benefits might be very limited.

I'm a nomad, I'm just looking for a good base. I could also get residency in Paraguay - it wouldn't be tax residency, but it might be just as good as UAE residency, without the risks.
Or I could get residency in Thailand, get a local job and pay some tax there. Still no tax residency, but at least I enjoy living in Thailand.
I really like living in Dubai, especially because of its location close to Europe. You can go on weekend trips to Italy or France or Georgia, everything is so close. But I absolutely don't want to start submitting tax returns there. It's the wild west and there's no rule of law. Even if you could appeal a decision, lawyers are so expensive that it's never worth it.
I've also thought about getting residency in Qatar, but Qatar is extremely boring and they have very few tax treaties.

I was hoping that there may be some way to get a tax residency certificate from a country like Thailand while spending less than 180 days, because shorter absences would not be counted (like most high-tax countries do it).
I guess one last option would be residency in a country like China or Japan that don't tax you for the first 1-5 years or so in the country...

 

[Marzio]

I've heard that even people who have lived in Malaysia for 20 years and are well-integrated are now moving.

To go where?

It surely have something to do with the foreign sourced income remitted in Malaysia that's will soon be taxed.

Seems like Malta/Cyprus are the most interesting options, but then you're looking at 5% tax + substance + accounting.

Malta's structure could be very expensive to maintain and it has to make sense for your business model.

1. How to find such a director?

At some point i feel someone from this forum will start a business to provide company directors in a tax free jurisdiction.

3. If you do any kind of work for the company in the UAE, then there's a major risk that there's a taxable PE for the company. So I can't imagine a digital nomad visa would work.

To avoid such risk you can hire yourself thorugh remote.com or similar services.

Japan that don't tax you for the first 1-5 years or so in the country...

That would be a good short term idea.

 

[Mercury]

Tax treaty benefits.

Please elaborate, in which specific case(s) would you need a tax certificate?

AFAIK a residence certificate, long term visa and/or address proof are usually enough to prove where you de facto reside.

 

[Marzio]

in which specific case(s) would you need a tax certificate?

To fight a tax residency claim from another country.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

To go where?

They haven't decided yet, as far as I know.

It surely have something to do with the foreign sourced income remitted in Malaysia that's will soon be taxed.

No, they had high-level positions in local companies. It had nothing to do with taxes.

At some point i feel someone from this forum will start a business to provide company directors in a tax free jurisdiction.

Lol, I would never use a service provided through the forum.

To avoid such risk you can hire yourself thorugh remote.com or similar services.

How? You mean commit tax evasion in the UAE?

That would be a good short term idea.

Maybe we should start another thread/sheet about such options...

AFAIK a residence certificate, long term visa and/or address proof are usually enough to prove where you de facto reside.

Yes, for banks it may be OK, but not for taxes, such as reduced withholding tax rates, etc.

To fight a tax residency claim from another country.

That as well.