Thailand vs Dubai

[troubled soul]

What is the pro and cons of living in Dubai vs Thailand.
Do share your view???

If income is not remitted to Thailand.
It is tax free.

What are the view for this ?
Moving to Dubai vs Thailand for tax saving.

 

[khinkali]

If income is not remitted to Thailand.
It is tax free.

That is true in some cases only. If you work in Thailand or if your business has a Permanent Establishment (i.e. you, managing it) in Thailand then non-remitted income is not tax free in Thailand. If you have passive foreign income, e.g. dividend income from NYSE, LSE, NASDAQ etc. shares then it's tax free if you don't bring it in that year (you can bring your wealth that came from last year's passive income).

Thailand doesn't always enforce taxes on unremitted Thai income and they might not be able to catch you. But I would rather live in Dubai legally tax free than lie awake at night wondering if RTP are going to kick the door in...

If your income is genuinely passive then great; I say pick the place where you enjoy the lifestyle. UAE and Thailand are very different places to live.

 

[JackAlabama]

What is the pro and cons of living in Dubai vs Thailand.
Do share your view???

If income is not remitted to Thailand.
It is tax free.

What are the view for this ?
Moving to Dubai vs Thailand for tax saving.

Cost of living and lifestyle primarily being different although I did not find Bkk to be a particularily cheap place around asok/sukhumvit road area for what you are being offered.
A need to learn the local language in Thailand whereas in Dubai you most likely are ok with just English.
A sometimes not too welcoming attitude of falangs....
Thailand being ideal for retirement or 50+ who wanna chill whereas Dubai is more for the active who want/needs to build wealth/businesses and network.
Although in Bkk you can also network as well to some extent for business etc.

 

[Fred]

Everything mentioned here is right.

I have to add that we see a lot of people living in Thailand with having an Offshore Company and paying 0% Tax.

While this people are all looking actually to switching over there Offshore Company from BVI, Belize, Seychelles and other classic Offshore Jurisdictions to Dubai, UAE due to lack of dencent retail banking options for classic Offshore Jurisdictions - non of them is worrying about the Thalinad side despite the fact that the Thai Tax Law is much more complex then many people think.

However it seems they let the western expats getting away with it - at least I never heard the opposite.

Dubai vs. Thailand is like Apple vs. Orange and can't really be compared in terms of physically living in this jurisdictions or on a Business & Finance level.

What's working great for a lot of people and what's even a personla recommendation from my side is to keep living in Thailand and having your Business & Finance Centre in Dubai as with the Dubai Company Formation a Residence Visa in the UAE comes as well - so should things are ever getting tighter in Thailand (expect this with eyes on the dead tourism in Thailand - the country needs money) you have always additional layer of privacy due to the Residence Visa in Dubai and the local UAE bank account that doesn't report under CRS when setup as a local UAE Resident - you are not swimming completely naked like with a Belize Company and Belize Bank Account thta is reported under CRS to your country of residence (in this case Thailand).

 

[Mercury]

Agreed with @Fred except CRS reporting. Thailand has signed agreements to join CRS but not ratified it yet. At this point, Thailand couldn't care less about CRS information on its residents.

 

[JackAlabama]

Everything mentioned here is right.

I have to add that we see a lot of people living in Thailand with having an Offshore Company and paying 0% Tax.

While this people are all looking actually to switching over there Offshore Company from BVI, Belize, Seychelles and other classic Offshore Jurisdictions to Dubai, UAE due to lack of dencent retail banking options for classic Offshore Jurisdictions - non of them is worrying about the Thalinad side despite the fact that the Thai Tax Law is much more complex then many people think.

However it seems they let the western expats getting away with it - at least I never heard the opposite.

Dubai vs. Thailand is like Apple vs. Orange and can't really be compared in terms of physically living in this jurisdictions or on a Business & Finance level.

What's working great for a lot of people and what's even a personla recommendation from my side is to keep living in Thailand and having your Business & Finance Centre in Dubai as with the Dubai Company Formation a Residence Visa in the UAE comes as well - so should things are ever getting tighter in Thailand (expect this with eyes on the dead tourism in Thailand - the country needs money) you have always additional layer of privacy due to the Residence Visa in Dubai and the local UAE bank account that doesn't report under CRS when setup as a local UAE Resident - you are not swimming completely naked like with a Belize Company and Belize Bank Account thta is reported under CRS to your country of residence (in this case Thailand).

Yep, combined with the Thai elite visa this is a very straightforward and fast solution.

That way could remit your cash needed for the year to your thai bank account and hence prove it was from e.g. dividends from that Dubai company distriubted in the past year and hence be fully compliant with their territorial time-based tax regime. (whereas monthly retirement payments would be subject to local tax unless you can collect all retirement benefits offshore for the year and remit it the year after).

Thai law is pretty complex and as Falang, interpretations can also vary quite a lot.

 

[PiersBlack]

Agreed with @Fred except CRS reporting. Thailand has signed agreements to join CRS but not ratified it yet. At this point, Thailand couldn't care less about CRS information on its residents.

No, actually Thailand will start CRS on January 1, 2022, to carry out its first AEOI in 2023. This means that the 2022 info will be shared/received already.

 

[Mercury]

No, actually Thailand will start CRS on January 1, 2022, to carry out its first AEOI in 2023. This means that the 2022 info will be shared/received already.

Yes, it's in 4 months from now. By then, it could be postponed again. Then, will they implement and enforce it? That's another story.

A Thai banker friend once told me that every single year in January massive inflows of money are remitted from abroad tax free to TH banks mainly from Thai wealthy elite according to the "Foreign sourced income will only be taxed in Thailand if the TH resident brings income into Thailand in the same calendar year it is received" rule.
I suspect that Thailand will not shoot itself in the foot by willing to toughly implement CRS on its residents, but it's just my opinion.

 

[Fred]

Yes, it's in 4 months from now. By then, it could be postponed again. Then, will they implement and enforce it? That's another story.

A Thai banker friend once told me that every single year in January massive inflows of money are remitted from abroad tax free to TH banks mainly from Thai wealthy elite according to the "Foreign sourced income will only be taxed in Thailand if the TH resident brings income into Thailand in the same calendar year it is received" rule.
I suspect that Thailand will not shoot itself in the foot by willing to toughly implement CRS on its residents, but it's just my opinion.

That's it.

Most likely within a year from today Thailand will be mentioned here as well.

https://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-...sistance/residence-citizenship-by-investment/

 

[Dasboot]

Thailand is a jungle full of strange animals for sure ;-)

When getting a grip on how things work here you start understanding that politics, cultural perceptions and simply how things are done is what regulates daily activity, NOT the letter of the law.

I started a company here to settle right before the scamdemic, then had a nightmare with visas & getting rid of it after all income from Europe got cut off with the travel ban ++

In the end the only realistic option was to use a well connected agent. The details in that setup are really something to observe, its water tight & initiated from the very top, including a very cooperative Bangkok Bank

Great care is taken in shielding this group of mostly pensioners, they contribute a lot directly to the local economy without the state itself getting any cut - but of course a chain of officers all the way to the top make a living from it...

Bangkok Bank itself is worth a study, in all my years of dealing with all sorts of software & logins I've never seen anything close to this!

I would guess it all serves a purpose, especially tiny things like branches NOT being capable at all pulling old transaction records, that is head branch only & takes 5 days or more. Gotta have time to "correct errors"!

Anyway, I've gone from trying to do it all the right way to get residency and so on to going the route that many see as risky and low class, but I also notice that those who recommend using whatever "tools" like these that are available often sound level headed, experienced and relaxed.

For anyone rebuilding like me, transferring low sums only, I'd certainly recommend just going the informal route, especially now that we don't know anything about how each state will try to rule the people they think they own one way or another!

 

[PiersBlack]

In this forum, most people are concerned about tax authorities when it comes to CRS/exchange information...

I'd like to launch a question for other people experienced in Thailand: what do you think it's gonna happen when, in 2023, a list of foreigners names+address+bank account balances, etc. lands on the desk of one of these top officials? Not just Thailand IRD, I mean other offices like AMLO, DSI, etc.

Even if you did nothing wrong, don't you think some 'players' are gonna try and come to collect their share one way or another? And I don't mean law-abiding ways.

Am I too paranoid? What are your thoughts?

 

[Dasboot]

I could ask someone in the family here that works in the DSI ;-)

Unless its large sums for 2022 I would not worry. Found a story in another forum, someone mentioned staying at a hotel and then suddenly having lots of Bentleys and similar luxury cars arriving. Of course they wondered what was going on, turned out to be some seminar for top level DSI employees!

Shakedowns here are less frequent than one might think, its mainly one particular police station in Bangkok and other tourist ghettos...

If seriously loaded the whole game can change for sure.

I'm very much a "grey man" these days, used to do networking & trying to be someone in Bangkok, but thats all moot - also gradually turning into a ghost online.

 

[Mercury]

what do you think it's gonna happen when, in 2023, a list of foreigners names+address+bank account balances, etc. lands on the desk of one of these top officials? Not just Thailand IRD, I mean other offices like AMLO, DSI, etc.

In my opinion, I don't see any list landing anywhere unless specifically reported/asked.

Anybody who is familiar with Thai administration/banks knows that everything is still managed on paper. Even now in 2021 you will still have to fill tons of paper forms and bring several copies of the required documents to any application. And if they may fill some databases at some point, bases are not interconnected and data is not kept long (IT issues happen...). Sometimes, even within the same administration they won't find your information and will ask again the paper copies you provided few months/weeks earlier.

In any case, if you are legitimately Thai resident there is no point that any information will be sent to your home country.

As Dasboot mentioned, keeping low profile and avoiding to frequently transfer multiple 7 figures amounts is the way to go.

 

[JackAlabama]

Thailand is a jungle full of strange animals for sure ;-)

When getting a grip on how things work here you start understanding that politics, cultural perceptions and simply how things are done is what regulates daily activity, NOT the letter of the law.

I started a company here to settle right before the scamdemic, then had a nightmare with visas & getting rid of it after all income from Europe got cut off with the travel ban ++

In the end the only realistic option was to use a well connected agent. The details in that setup are really something to observe, its water tight & initiated from the very top, including a very cooperative Bangkok Bank

Great care is taken in shielding this group of mostly pensioners, they contribute a lot directly to the local economy without the state itself getting any cut - but of course a chain of officers all the way to the top make a living from it...

Bangkok Bank itself is worth a study, in all my years of dealing with all sorts of software & logins I've never seen anything close to this!

I would guess it all serves a purpose, especially tiny things like branches NOT being capable at all pulling old transaction records, that is head branch only & takes 5 days or more. Gotta have time to "correct errors"!

Anyway, I've gone from trying to do it all the right way to get residency and so on to going the route that many see as risky and low class, but I also notice that those who recommend using whatever "tools" like these that are available often sound level headed, experienced and relaxed.

For anyone rebuilding like me, transferring low sums only, I'd certainly recommend just going the informal route, especially now that we don't know anything about how each state will try to rule the people they think they own one way or another!

why did you not take the elite visa card?

 

[Dasboot]

Various reasons, mainly that I had revenue fro Europe & wanted to build a local presence that could lead to residency.

Elite is not a good solution if planning to settle long term, even though it could be perfect for some years only.

Also they had no more rights and got no help when they needed to get another immigration stamp after a year, no workable solution for staying on during the scamdemic, guess they had to do the same, unstable extensions as any skint teacher or trapped tourist.

There are basically two tiers here except for those with citizenships: permanent residents paying taxes with a road to citizenship & then everyone else...