UK company treasure shares

[Xerkki]

Hello.

I was thinking if its possible to form an UK Ltd. with 100 shares.
Then you put the company itself to own 95 shares as a nominee shareholder?
U are the UBO.

I ask this because in some countries owning shares over a certain limit (20-50%) make things more complicated but under the amount you are not considered as an company owner and it might get you some benefits.

Maybe this is not (i dont know) possible in UK but how about some other jurisdictions (Gibraltar etc.)?

 

[Wyoming]

It would not be possible in UK without a bit of expense. I kept my name off UK Companies House even though I am UBO being creative but I was already having those expenses so maybe not worth it to you. Best bet have a local nominee you trust. If not, no luck, and try elsewhere.

 

[DarkRevoMan]

Hello.

I was thinking if its possible to form an UK Ltd. with 100 shares.
Then you put the company itself to own 95 shares as a nominee shareholder?
U are the UBO.

I ask this because in some countries owning shares over a certain limit (20-50%) make things more complicated but under the amount you are not considered as an company owner and it might get you some benefits.

Maybe this is not (i dont know) possible in UK but how about some other jurisdictions (Gibraltar etc.)?

Yes this is currently one of the many loopholes to avoid UK company house. Company A owns 99% of company B, Company B owns 100% of Company A. You own 1% of Company A. (Circular holding structure).
Another is if your companies are constantly opening and closing, and trading shares. You can just not update the information or choose to file that "you can't be certain" who owns it. Many companies do this. The low cost of setting up companies in the UK makes this not that bad.

I would link a full presentation on this topic if I find it again. There are around 10 ways of doing this.

 

[JohnLocke]

It would not be possible in UK without a bit of expense. I kept my name off UK Companies House even though I am UBO being creative but I was already having those expenses so maybe not worth it to you. Best bet have a local nominee you trust. If not, no luck, and try elsewhere.

What expenses are we looking on, can you elaborate how you did it?

Did you hire 2 - 3 people that each own a percentage of the company as many doing it?

 

[Xerkki]

Yes this is currently one of the many loopholes to avoid UK company house. Company A owns 99% of company B, Company B owns 100% of Company A. You own 1% of Company A. (Circular holding structure).
Another is if your companies are constantly opening and closing, and trading shares. You can just not update the information or choose to file that "you can't be certain" who owns it. Many companies do this. The low cost of setting up companies in the UK makes this not that bad.

I would link a full presentation on this topic if I find it again. There are around 10 ways of doing this.

Ok.

If you can find it can you please link it here?

I read that is illegal in UK but you mentioned loopholes so im interested to know more about them.

 

[I'mRobot]

Yes this is currently one of the many loopholes to avoid UK company house. Company A owns 99% of company B, Company B owns 100% of Company A. You own 1% of Company A. (Circular holding structure).
Another is if your companies are constantly opening and closing, and trading shares. You can just not update the information or choose to file that "you can't be certain" who owns it. Many companies do this. The low cost of setting up companies in the UK makes this not that bad.

I would link a full presentation on this topic if I find it again. There are around 10 ways of doing this.

too complicated for me and my small setups.

 

[Wyoming]

Here is my experience. I have a primary Wyoming LLC with foreign LLCs in the different states I work in. I also own many rental properties in Wyoming, over 25, each of those properties has its own LLC and its own bank account.

I wanted to start doing business in New York state, and felt its ownership paperwork cumbersome, so since I already owned all those LLCs, and already having them as an expense, I created a new New York LLC (not a foreign LLC from my primary company) with each of the real estate LLCs owning an equal share of under 4% plus my primary LLC, I was able to avoid that paperwork and more importantly, avoid identifying myself to authorities. The law firm had zero issues in receiving funds from many real estate companies, helping with forming a new LLC, transferring funds to the new bank account (Citi), and helping hire a local manager with 0% ownership so keeping them out of the public records. Later, due to several reasons, I have had the NY LLC open several different bank accounts with various banks. Only Citi and Bank of America are the larger banks, the others are either local or regional. I had some initial issues with Citi at first but the law firm was able to resolve them painlessly.

When I wanted to expand to England and Wales but desperately wanted to avoid my name publicized in Companies House, I used my NY LLC to be the owner of the new company based outside of London. Since no UBO could be identified with any significant share of ownership, completely confirmed with the authorities in New York, my name was left off the public and private records. Citi had zero problem with allowing us to open a separate account for establishing this business and we hired a local director (actually a personal friend of mine who knows the industry) with 0% ownership and later a high street bank account (in addition to Citi). This director runs my business for me. Periodically I do travel to London but I am a "consultant" for my projects there. No one thinks I am the decision maker, but honestly I am not, I leave that to my director, he is that capable.

Not 100% legal in the UK but my privacy was much more important than keeping on the up and up. The interesting thing is NY laws are contradictory and I think I am legal there too.

I would not recommend doing this with anyone else unless you absolutely want to remain anonymous and have the revenues to justify it.

 

[EliasIT]

Here is my experience. I have a primary Wyoming LLC with foreign LLCs in the different states I work in. I also own many rental properties in Wyoming, over 25, each of those properties has its own LLC and its own bank account.

With what bank's have you opened all these accounts, or is it the same bank ?

 

[Wyoming]

With what bank's have you opened all these accounts, or is it the same bank ?

For my properties in Cheyenne they are with either US Bank or Jonah Bank of Wyoming. For my properties in Laramie they are with US Bank and Bank of the West (BNP Paribas) but I am transferring those accounts away from BotW as the customer service has plummeted. I have good experience with both US Bank and First Interstate Bank and I would also bank at Wells Fargo but do not currently have any business with them. I am originally from the area and am only a couple of hours away.

 

[DarkRevoMan]

Ok.

If you can find it can you please link it here?

I read that is illegal in UK but you mentioned loopholes so im interested to know more about them.

I've been looking for it, will link it if I find it. It was a conference for people looking to trace money and assets (aka our enemy). They were complaining about the number of loopholes, and lack of penalties for not having a UBO in the UK. I think they even set up an anyonmyous UK company during the conference as a protest lol. I always see if I can learn from the enemy.

 

[Xerkki]

I've been looking for it, will link it if I find it. It was a conference for people looking to trace money and assets (aka our enemy). They were complaining about the number of loopholes, and lack of penalties for not having a UBO in the UK. I think they even set up an anyonmyous UK company during the conference as a protest lol. I always see if I can learn from the enemy.