USA LLC + Thailand resident visa....what are pro and cons ?

[troubled soul]

As Dubai Free zone simple tax free solution is gone...
Seems Now last man stadning is USA LLC + Thai resident visa for Digital Nomad and Digital Business owner...
Let's discuss what are the pro and cons of this setup....
People actually living in Thailand.....can you put some light on what are your setup look a like....
Is it good alternative for Dubai Free zone ?

Thanks

 

[hanku89]

up

 

[KingKing777]

As Dubai Free zone simple tax free solution is gone...
Seems Now last man stadning is USA LLC + Thai resident visa for Digital Nomad and Digital Business owner...
Let's discuss what are the pro and cons of this setup....
People actually living in Thailand.....can you put some light on what are your setup look a like....
Is it good alternative for Dubai Free zone ?

Thanks

Interested too. Hope some people can enlight those questions

 

[Skenners]

i have an elite visa, but work and pay tax in australia.

what i think you need is a residence certificate (tm 16) for use in other countries as proof of residence which might get them off your back, tax wise, but i dont know.

the elite visa changes at the end of the year and is only a tourist visa for 5+ years

-Skenners

 

[KingKing777]

i have an elite visa, but work and pay tax in australia.

what i think you need is a residence certificate (tm 16) for use in other countries as proof of residence which might get them off your back, tax wise, but i dont know.

the elite visa changes at the end of the year and is only a tourist visa for 5+ years

-Skenners

I guess the more proof you have that you settle in Thailand, the better. Embassy Registry, Residence of certificate, proof that you paying Thai Tax (+Tax ID), driver licence, ...

 

[Skenners]

I guess the more proof you have that you settle in Thailand, the better. Embassy Registry, Residence of certificate, proof that you paying Thai Tax (+Tax ID), driver licence, ...

that was my thinking too. you can get a tax id on the elite visa as well. all about creating "substance".


-Skenners

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

If the OZ authorities require you to be tax resident in a new country, then I guess it's best to show a tax residency certificate? Shouldn't be difficult to get if you spend 180+ days per year in Thailand, and if you don't, then you're not a tax resident, so I doubt the OZ tax authorities would let you off the hook?

 

[KingKing777]

that was my thinking too. you can get a tax id on the elite visa as well. all about creating "substance".


-Skenners

Exactly.

At least you are not showing up with empty pockets

 

[Skenners]

If the OZ authorities require you to be tax resident in a new country, then I guess it's best to show a tax residency certificate? Shouldn't be difficult to get if you spend 180+ days per year in Thailand, and if you don't, then you're not a tax resident, so I doubt the OZ tax authorities would let you off the hook?

I use my parents address for mail and "residency". I'm a New Zealand citizen with Oz perm res, so I pay taxes in aus, but being that I'm an Australian employee, they don't look into it. It being me in Thailand 180+ days physically. The elite visa is still a tourist visa, so I'm just a tourist, technically.

They just want to know where you are paying tax because they want theirs if you are liable.

So if I were to offshore (which I will in a few months-year), id be setting up all the Thai tax stuff, residence certs, banking data (if you hold an account there, you're more likely to be seen as living there) to show that this is my primary residence country for tax purposes.

Id also be cutting off bank accounts and licenses in aus because I heard (could be a rumour) that the tax office can still make an argument that you're still tied to the country if you hold a valid bank account there if they go snooping.

I wouldn't want to run that risk

-Skenners

 

[JackAlabama]

I use my parents address for mail and "residency". I'm a New Zealand citizen with Oz perm res, so I pay taxes in aus, but being that I'm an Australian employee, they don't look into it. It being me in Thailand 180+ days physically. The elite visa is still a tourist visa, so I'm just a tourist, technically.

They just want to know where you are paying tax because they want theirs if you are liable.

So if I were to offshore (which I will in a few months-year), id be setting up all the Thai tax stuff, residence certs, banking data (if you hold an account there, you're more likely to be seen as living there) to show that this is my primary residence country for tax purposes.

Id also be cutting off bank accounts and licenses in aus because I heard (could be a rumour) that the tax office can still make an argument that you're still tied to the country if you hold a valid bank account there if they go snooping.

I wouldn't want to run that risk

-Skenners

Some countries really make a fuss about having a bank account back home, while others do not.
So it really depends on your counterparty and better to double check it, even in the better managed western countries it varies.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

So if I were to offshore (which I will in a few months-year), id be setting up all the Thai tax stuff, residence certs, banking data (if you hold an account there, you're more likely to be seen as living there) to show that this is my primary residence country for tax purposes.

I don't know what the OZ tax authorities expect from you. But again: If they require you to become tax resident somewhere else, then you having a residency certificate, bank account, car, whatever means nothing at all if you don't spend 180+ days per year in Thailand. Because for Thailand, you will be treated exactly the same as if you were spending only a week per year in the country, drinking at some 3-star hotel in Patong.
So I would strongly advise you not to make assumptions, but rather verify this with an OZ tax lawyer.

 

[Skenners]

whatever means nothing at all if you don't spend 180+ days per year in Thailand.

yeah, i live here permanently.

So I would strongly advise you not to make assumptions, but rather verify this with an OZ tax lawyer.

yep, thats pretty much a given.

-Skenners

 

[wellington]

Isn't it like the UK?

Leave, then only tax is real estate cap gains / income (in the UK) after 180 days outside of the country?

As for the Elite, its pretty simple, doesn't matter about the visa type or substance, if you live in the country and have a overseas company, which generates income and then you are paid, and you wait the next tax year its tax free on bringing into the country.

Hence half the higher end WP employees (in country) have a vehicle in HK for being paid the bulk of their salaries through a LLC/similar for 'consultancy', and have 80-150,000 THB paid on-shore which the company deducts tax for.

Thailand likely won't change that as the funds enter the system and are spent onshore one way or the other (resident overseas company owners, or income earning residents that have overseas consultancy).

 

[zzzzzz]

@wellington @Skenners How is with proof of address in Thailand, are utility bills and address in english?

 

[wellington]

@wellington @Skenners How is with proof of address in Thailand, are utility bills and address in english?

Normally a residence certificate is best and sometimes notarised.

It's meant to be free but usually 500 baht...

In Phuket best place to do is Patong (in and out inside an hour).

You can also use a Credit Card statement if you have a Thai Credit Card, or you can do a bank statement (ask them to put your address on) but these are usually needed to be notarised and have to be sent from Head Office Bank unless you have elite visa where they will usually do it there and then for you (Kasikorn Phuket Town Head Branch).

and have 80-150,000 THB paid on-shore which the company deducts tax for.

Just recognised that wasn't clarrified.

Onshore salary per month 80-150,000 THB via a on-shore employer, they'd normally have a consultancy with a external company (it's overseas part) - say in HK and that would pay overseas to their LLC or etc and they'd wait till the new tax year to bring the funds in.

Can't get away with 80-150,000 THB on-shore in a year only, think the min foreigner salary (western) is about 50k THB these days.

 

[Skenners]

@wellington @Skenners How is with proof of address in Thailand, are utility bills and address in english?

I often use my thai/english rental agreement with my passport, but residence cert is needed for government stuff like buying a motorbike or car.

my util bills are mostly thai via email

-Skenners

 

[Cloudbanck]

Isn't it like the UK?

Nope, among western countries the UK is among the easiest and clearest as to how to leave the tax net, whereas Australia is on the other end of the spectrum, along with Norway.

The thing with Australia is that it is not enough to leave and cut all ties, you also probably have to set up a permanent home in another country. See Australian tax residency tests The flowchart there is pretty telling, basically everything leads to "Australian Tax Resident" except the longest path passing every single sometimes unclear requirement. (https://www.exfin.com/files/general_materials/Australian Tax Residency Tests Exfin.pdf)

Also during covid Australia made citizens ask for permission to leave the country, and these permission requests were frequently denied.
And if you have tax debts to Australia, they may issue you a department prohibition order.

 

[Skenners]

Nope, among western countries the UK is among the easiest and clearest as to how to leave the tax net, whereas Australia is on the other end of the spectrum, along with Norway.

The thing with Australia is that it is not enough to leave and cut all ties, you also probably have to set up a permanent home in another country. See Australian tax residency tests The flowchart there is pretty telling, basically everything leads to "Australian Tax Resident" except the longest path passing every single sometimes unclear requirement. (https://www.exfin.com/files/general_materials/Australian Tax Residency Tests Exfin.pdf)

Also during covid Australia made citizens ask for permission to leave the country, and these permissions requests were frequently denied.
And if you have tax debts to Australia, they may issue you a department prohibition order.

100%. That's why I'm still attached to Australia at the moment.

Creating the substance that I'm in a foreign country and eventually a tax resident takes time and a stupid amount of dedication to get it done right the first time. Especially since I'm not an Australian Citizen, but a PR. Not only that, I came to Australia in the early 80s, so it was before you needed a visa (that came in in 2001) to get residency, so its often a problem with me in stating that I'm a PR because there's no actual proof anymore.

Far easier to get things setup, sorted out, ready in the foreign country/countries and creating a company with substance offshore before I give anything up and doing it all after. Like mentioned before, Taxation stuff will be done through a professional when I'm good to go (as should anyone else in the same position).

-Skenners

 

[zzzzzz]

@wellington @Skenners do foreign financial institutions and those in Thailand, recognize your Thai Elite Visa (Privilege Entry Visa "PE") as a form of legal residency (not tax residency) in Thailand? I don't want to buy it and realize it's not treated similar to residence permit like with people who actually work/study/retire in Thailand. But in the end, expat retirees also get just "Retirement Visa" and not residence permit, so I guess it's not a problem after all...?

 

[Skenners]

@wellington @Skenners do foreign financial institutions and those in Thailand, recognize your Thai Elite Visa (Privilege Entry Visa "PE") as a form of legal residency (not tax residency) in Thailand? I don't want to buy it and realize it's not treated similar to residence permit like with people who actually work/study/retire in Thailand. But in the end, expat retirees also get just "Retirement Visa" and not residence permit, so I guess it's not a problem after all...?

No, not on its own. Thats what a residence certificate (tm 16) is for. Cost 200b and a longass wait at bureaucratic hell that is immigration building b or 3k through an agent that Thailand Privilege will organise for you. I don't like lines, so I'm going that option so I can get my motorbike license.

I got the process down as:
-email Thai Privilege Concierge (head office guys of the Thai elite program) guys with a copy of the forms you need
-they pass it to a third party
-you pay third party
-they wait in line and fill out forms
-when it comes back after a few days to a week, TP will email you to come pick it up at sathorn hq (st louis bts).

This is the DIY steps and required forms:
https://tdl-service.com/thai-residence-certificate-in-bangkok/
The Elite visa is just a tourist visa with a concierge service, nothing more, really. its convenience.

EDIT: oh, some embassys will give a residential certificate equivalent, not sure which ones or what they are though.

-Skenners