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wheelspin

New member
Hello,

I have been following this forum for a long time and I am very impressed that people run businesses where you need to think about going offshore or planning wealth.

For as long as I can remember I always wanted to have my own business. Unfortunately, I am stuck in a larger corporation as an employee. The more I work, the more my bosses get rich. I can't imagine working until the age of 67 or even older.

So, tell me about your business! How did you start? How did you get in? I would also consider immigrating (I am a German citizen) to somewhere else if there's an opportunity. Tax burden is heavy and a lot of my salary is engulfed by tax (>45%!!!). When I do get a higher salary I might earn less at the end of the day due to our progressive tax rates.

I was planning to work as a freelance but our laws make it more difficult than before. Our bureaucracy is ridiculous! Freelancers are being hunted by authorities for bogus self-employment and mid-size and large corporations are hesitant to work with. To have a decent life (in a larger city, not talking about any luxury lifestyle) you need to have stable daily rates (~1k€ per day) but the average daily rate is somewhere starting from 600€ per day. 600€ is too little to pay all fixed costs and you would earn more with less risk as an employee.

To work with larger corporations, which I prefer because of long-term projects with an occupancy rate of 5 days per week, you need an agency. The agency has a contract with the corporation and they keep 10-20% of the rate just for putting you under a contract with them.

Any suggestions on how to start? Where to find "ideas"?
 
Last edited:

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
For as long as I can remember I always wanted to have my own business. Unfortunately, I am stuck in a larger corporation as an employee. The more I work, the more my bosses get rich. I can't imagine working until the age of 67 or even older.

I think Karl Marx called paid wage labor exploitation because for example if your being paid $30 an hour then the value of your work to the employer has to be worth substantially greater than $30 an hour so hence you are being exploited sadly :confused:.

So, tell me about your business! How did you start? How did you get in?

Ran an offshore consulting business many years ago. Sold it all and retired in Bahamas now. Got into it by being in right place at right time. There was no secret formulae when I moved to europe years ago to start the business before selling it.


Any suggestions on how to start? Where to find "ideas"?

The first place to start is to look at your cost base. What are you out-goings each month? Can you afford to become self employed? You have to reduce your cost of living to a very low level. If you got wife, kids, mortgage, car payments etc your options become more limited in terms of risking becoming self employed. In current covid climate if any business you are thinking of is not online it may struggle in the short term. At end of day do you really want independence of being self employed or do you just want more money? More money you can get by investing.

Bottom line is you do not get rich by working for money. You get rich by letting your money work for you.
 

wheelspin

New member
The first place to start is to look at your cost base. What are you out-goings each month? Can you afford to become self employed? You have to reduce your cost of living to a very low level. If you got wife, kids, mortgage, car payments etc your options become more limited in terms of risking becoming self employed. In current covid climate if any business you are thinking of is not online it may struggle in the short term. At end of day do you really want independence of being self employed or do you just want more money? More money you can get by investing.

Bottom line is you do not get rich by working for money. You get rich by letting your money work for you.

Well said! I have a very low-cost base and apart from low rent no unusual expenses (no wife, no kids, no mortgage, ...). I pay just insurance and some utility bills, no dining as I like to prepare meals.

Most of my savings are invested in stock (shares and ETFs). I didn't buy any hype stocks or "hot" stocks. A little percentage is in crypto. But with my job and my savings I cannot get rich or let's say financially independent unless my ROE / ROI is >10% per annum in the next 20-30 years. Base is too low.

To answer your second question: both. To be independent is very important to me. Just knowing that I am working for me and not for someone else is nice (++own cash)
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
But with my job and my savings I cannot get rich or let's say financially independent unless my ROE / ROI is >10% per annum in the next 20-30 years. Base is too low.

Yes investing in listed stocks will never make you the type of money to become self sufficient.

To answer your second question: both. To be independent is very important to me. Just knowing that I am working for me and not for someone else is nice (++own cash)

I know that feeling of holding your destiny in your own hands. Being self made and being out of the rat race, office politics, work performance appraisals and all the other BS that goes with jobs :confused:.

What I would do if I was in your shoes would be to invest in early stage startups. Compounding those returns over 20-30 years will make you financially independent if all goes well. The failure rate in startups is high but the returns are very high also if you diversify your investment across different startups. So investing maybe 100 euros into 10 startups each quarter can help. For example had you invested £100 in Revolut during its startup today your investment would be worth £1,900. Had you invested £100 in Freetrade.io your investment today would be worth £4,700 etc etc.

You can also look at this guy who invested in same way but with a higher starting amount but by compounding he got to $200m. But obviously don't go down the non-declaring income route.

---


In 1995, Horsky bought shares in startup businesses through Credit Suisse accounts. He joined two other game-theory experts in investing, the people said.

Horsky invested in as many as 18 companies, but most were bad bets, according to court papers. He ran up more than $350,000 in credit-card debt, forcing him to take a second mortgage.

He finally struck it rich in 2008, when a company identified in court papers as Company A was bought for $1.8 billion. Horsky had invested in the firm using his money, funds from his father and sister, and margin loans from his bank.

He reaped $80 million in net proceeds, but only reported a gain of $7 million to the IRS, he said. He also admitted filing false returns from 2009 to 2015.

After his windfall, Horsky bought stock in a second company, identified as Company B, which had acquired Company A. His assets rose to $200 million by 2013.

--------


Anyway hope I can give you some inspiration. A small amount can go along way to making your financially independent with compounded investment returns.
 

wheelspin

New member
What I would do if I was in your shoes would be to invest in early stage startups. Compounding those returns over 20-30 years will make you financially independent if all goes well. The failure rate in startups is high but the returns are very high also if you diversify your investment across different startups. So investing maybe 100 euros into 10 startups each quarter can help. For example had you invested £100 in Revolut during its startup today your investment would be worth £1,900. Had you invested £100 in Freetrade.io your investment today would be worth £4,700 etc etc.
Many thanks for your suggestions!

So startups might bring more returns.

Yes investing in listed stocks will never make you the type of money to become self sufficient.

Should I invest in startups before they go public? Revolut isn't listed as they haven't gone public yet. How would I be able to invest in that business? Crowdfunding?

I mean for private equity I would need a bank and a lot more cash.
 

JackAlabama

Entrepreneur
Many thanks for your suggestions!

So startups might bring more returns.



Should I invest in startups before they go public? Revolut isn't listed as they haven't gone public yet. How would I be able to invest in that business? Crowdfunding?

I mean for private equity I would need a bank and a lot more cash.
ideally yes. However this is hard to find, but of course also very possible as early stage startups almost always need extra cash. The ipo thing can then serve as the big rainfall.
It can work out even after they went public, but of course this is much harder to make a 10x return.
 

azb1

Entrepreneur
Hello,

I have been following this forum for a long time and I am very impressed that people run businesses where you need to think about going offshore or planning wealth.

For as long as I can remember I always wanted to have my own business. Unfortunately, I am stuck in a larger corporation as an employee. The more I work, the more my bosses get rich. I can't imagine working until the age of 67 or even older.

So, tell me about your business! How did you start? How did you get in? I would also consider immigrating (I am a German citizen) to somewhere else if there's an opportunity. Tax burden is heavy and a lot of my salary is engulfed by tax (>45%!!!). When I do get a higher salary I might earn less at the end of the day due to our progressive tax rates.

I was planning to work as a freelance but our laws make it more difficult than before. Our bureaucracy is ridiculous! Freelancers are being hunted by authorities for bogus self-employment and mid-size and large corporations are hesitant to work with. To have a decent life (in a larger city, not talking about any luxury lifestyle) you need to have stable daily rates (~1k€ per day) but the average daily rate is somewhere starting from 600€ per day. 600€ is too little to pay all fixed costs and you would earn more with less risk as an employee.

To work with larger corporations, which I prefer because of long-term projects with an occupancy rate of 5 days per week, you need an agency. The agency has a contract with the corporation and they keep 10-20% of the rate just for putting you under a contract with them.

Any suggestions on how to start? Where to find "ideas"?
understanding-risk-return-img1.jpg


In life, I believe this chart matters the most, If you doing some Government/private job Your risk profile is low, So the income is Low.
Take a high risk and Receive high income.
 

CoffeeExpert

New member
If you invest in cryptos like XRP and 0xMR you don't have to work. I retired three years ago at 40. I've seen a lot of good business opportunities since but I'm making so much money with my money in crypto anything else isn't worth the time.
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
Should I invest in startups before they go public?

Yes.

Revolut isn't listed as they haven't gone public yet. How would I be able to invest in that business? Crowdfunding?

Yes crowdfunding. Also you can start with looking at good companies you may already use that have not gone public and see if there are investment opportunities on offer from them.

I mean for private equity I would need a bank and a lot more cash.

You can look at sites like crowdcube which Revolut and a lot of other UK startups came through. You can invest as little as 10 euros in some cases.
 

Admin

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Elite Member

Hyo

New member
My friend, the best investment you can make is in yourself. Get educated, in places like this forum for example, and start changing your mindset. There has never been more money in the world and the future is bright for entrepreneurship, if you ask me. Read, listen , ask questions and think. You will slowly start to see a trend emerging. There are a million ways to make money but you should first try the ones that appeal to you the most. Good luck.
 

spacely

New member
My friend, the best investment you can make is in yourself. Get educated, in places like this forum for example, and start changing your mindset. There has never been more money in the world and the future is bright for entrepreneurship, if you ask me. Read, listen , ask questions and think. You will slowly start to see a trend emerging. There are a million ways to make money but you should first try the ones that appeal to you the most. Good luck.
great advice! never settle until you are fully satisfied with where you are

As @Martin Everson said it is important to be at the right place and at the right time, as many of us have started the journey of being self-employed. But also from my experience having conversations with employed people who wish to get out of this they usually do not have enough courage to even make the first step in the right direction always stating that it is not that simple as it seems, etc.
So if you know any business and how it works in theory from A to Z or at least from A to K lol just do not be afraid to try
 

FTR007

New member
i feel with you bro i live in DE ... but i start to invest in crypto, gold and silver, have just invest a little but feel very comfortable with the % :).

my plan is to invest little by little to have in 5 years maybe enough. than i can let my money work ^^ but until that have to live a primitive live.
 

Loopylicious

New member
I'm sorry I did not mean to write that comment on this topic, It was a mistake I chose the wrong topic. If a admin could erase that comment would apprecciate that.
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
I'm sorry I did not mean to write that comment on this topic, It was a mistake I chose the wrong topic. If a admin could erase that comment would apprecciate that.

Done
 

bibing

Active Member
If you invest in cryptos like XRP and 0xMR you don't have to work. I retired three years ago at 40. I've seen a lot of good business opportunities since but I'm making so much money with my money in crypto anything else isn't worth the time.
How? Buy low and sell high?
If yes, it doesn't mean you are retired but an active trader, isn't it?
 
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