What country to choose for employing IT staff?

[diatessaron]

Eastern Europe is the holy grail of programmers. I have been working with people from Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus etc. and they've been 10x better than any India/Pakistan people. There's also a better developed common sense in EE, easier to deal with.

 

[JackAlabama]

Eastern Europe is the holy grail of programmers. I have been working with people from Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus etc. and they've been 10x better than any India/Pakistan people. There's also a better developed common sense in EE, easier to deal with.

That is because you are culturally closer to them compared to India/Pakistan.

 

[tolstoy]

That is because you are culturally closer to them compared to India/Pakistan.

I think OP is talking about having control over employees whereas having an employee /freelancer not in the office is creating the issue. Its not about India or Pakistan i think.

 

[JackAlabama]

I think OP is talking about having control over employees whereas having an employee /freelancer not in the office is creating the issue. Its not about India or Pakistan i think.

quote was not op related.

 

[diatessaron]

That is because you are culturally closer to them compared to India/Pakistan.

I'm from Mongolia.

 

[tolstoy]

quote was not op related.

Whats culture got to do with software coding?

 

[Marzio]

Whats culture got to do with software coding?

A lot.

I found out that in some cultures (mainly east-Europe, post sovietic countries) they will work till they drop to keep their word.

This is not the case in other countries.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I found out that in some cultures (mainly east-Europe, post sovietic countries) they will work till they drop to keep their word.

I didn’t know I am Latvian.

 

[denniz07]

Maybe a bit offtopic. But is it possible to hire across the world?

I have seen, big companies like gitlab and others which offer remote only jobs in europe. Don't really undestand how it works, since for example in Germany (as I undestand), as soon as you hire someone you kind of have to open some legal structure there and also pay all the things for social security and so on. Of course with contractors it is easier, but you would have to pay more.

 

[James Spader]

You are always able to hire people as free lancer or they have to be self employed, that may be an option to hire people across the world.

I think OP is talking about having control over employees whereas having an employee /freelancer not in the office is creating the issue

Not related to the reply, but the same issue we have at the moment when planning for 2023

@EliasIT - if you figure something out please contact me. It seems we look for the same.

 

[tolstoy]

You are always able to hire people as free lancer or they have to be self employed, that may be an option to hire people across the world.


Not related to the reply, but the same issue we have at the moment when planning for 2023

@EliasIT - if you figure something out please contact me. It seems we look for the same.

Hey Spader if you need IT staff let know.

 

[Mr Anderson]

I have a protal that I run that reminds me a bit of this forum. To get things going, my group is ready to establish an office with 2 - 3 employees.

The work itself is not particularly difficult, you can be trained in 3 - 4 months max.

It is important to have 100% control over the employees.

Outsourcing doesn't work, we've tried with Indians, Pakistanis etc... unfortunately they just say YES to everything, then you spend 10 hours on them to explain and show and in the end it's all crap they do. I'm sick of that kind of thing and don't want it anymore.

We are considering establishing the whole thing in Switzerland, where our group of companies is also partly established.

Then it is easy to manage the employees and at the same time you can establish a real office in Switzerland which will provide other opportunities.

I'm just overly aware that it might be an expensive solution, so I'm looking for advice and good suggestions

As an IT firm, I can attest to your experience with certain countries. What many don't know they usually outsource to others. For example, India my outsource to Malaysia or Thailand. This usually creates a chain of delays and inconsistencies. [Specifically talking about IT here, not back-office.]

Upwork used to be great a few years ago before they went public. Now they are Big Tech and Big Brother. Something to consider when working on a project.

A lot of countries also have bad habits when it comes to security. Taking your development to their laptop, or some other third party is expected and the norm. You client data could end up on someone's laptop in a Malaysia cafe that unfortunately just was stolen. How do you think many can work for $3 USD an hr?

My suggestion that would help offload some of your burden is to consider turnkey products. Amazon AWS Marketplace has many, and AWS is grade A secure infrastructure. You can always move your hosting to specific GEOs too. There many others, but at least you can build a foundation you can start from for pennies, and all under your control.

In the end, good help is hard to find. Certain countries are developing a reputation for reasons.

Much success to you!

 

[369]

The old problem of remote work.....
I stopped hiring people from asia (excluding china) and mostly preffered working with russian programers or chinese ones.
Programers from western countries i void like a plague because they always charge a killing like 4-6 times more than a russian programer which quality of work is even better.
We had a special name for them which is "google pay" from our chinese community (which was pointing to google salary).

When remotly workers always create some kind of issues even when running a forum.
For example the owner of blackhatworld the biggest marketing forum in the world had a russian guy hired remotly who was responsible as server admin.His wage at this time was ok for a russian citizen but greed is always a sucker.
When leaving that job he took a copy of the whole database (names,emails,passwords,pm etc) and sold it on the black market......

Myself i had also bad experience with remote workers

If i would have to open an office and employ programers i seriously would look for poland.
For 2.5-3k/month you will get professional ones who will work their butt off.
Offices and infrastructur are cheap and work ethics when paying good very high

That is because you are culturally closer to them compared to India/Pakistan.

no i fully agree with him.Indian and pakistani take any work and always claim they can do it when in the end only crap comes out.
You can count the amount of real professionals there with your fingers on your both hands

 

[uplana]

no i fully agree with him.Indian and pakistani take any work and always claim they can do it when in the end only crap comes out.
You can count the amount of real professionals there with your fingers on your both hands

I totally agree totally with the statements around here. If you want to get the work done you want to hire inhouse to get started with. Once you have staff that can work with you on your core business you can setup a inhouse team to control the external staff.