Where to live in Italy with family? Flat tax regime

[Jackx3]

So is the answer to the original question "Where to live in Italy with family? Flat tax regime", nowhere?

Take the tax deal, minimise your stay in Italy. Find a better (coherent) place to live.

 

[EliasIT]

If you make a lot of money and already have a small fortune, Italy surely has a good place like Bergamo mentioned in the thread where you can have a good life with your family.

But when you don't even speak the language, I really think you will have a hard time getting by in Italy and as also mentioned in the thread, you will probably get cheated wherever you go.

 

[BarleyMalt]

Aside from the tax aspect, living in Italy with a family is pretty miserable. I lived there, and experienced it. Other friends have done it as well and told me the same thing.

Aside from the lack of childcare, there is no child infrastructure (no children park where they can get some fresh air and exercise for instance), society is old, ageing, municipalities are governed by insufferable boomers that absolutely hate children. Every town is car-centric, even the old ones clearly not designed for this. There is no public transportation. Walking in most of the towns is a struggle in itself, due to the insane parking everywhere.

You'll have to get angry daily about the wankers and the silly geese with Vuitton bags that park their Fiat 500 on the side walk and prevent you from walking freely with your pram. The Italian health system is overloaded with old people coming to the hospital for any reason, and they always have the priority over the young, the pregnant women, and the children. Private health services are expensive and doctors are so-so.

People will look down on you because you have more than two children, send you mail because you make noise during the day. You'll be kicked out of restaurants more or less politely because the local boomers don't want to deal with the potential annoyance. Yeah, you'll see people saying nice things on some occasions, however the crude reality is that society has given up with the idea of having children, and you'll feel it very well every day. The amount of old people with no grandchildren is heart-crushing, and I witnessed a few times old ladies almost breaking up in tears when they could hold my son's hand.

Add the African immigration that flocks in, and really, you don't want to live in Italy with your family. Just go there on holidays.

 

[Anzein]

That, plus pollution and the crazy people.

You just can’t survive the south if you are a foreigner. Take our word for it, it’s not so easy to explain. The mafia is the least of the problems.

Why is the south not suitable? Except for the mafia (which I think nothing should happen as long as you don't get involved) according to the data it is the region with the least immigration (which is ideal) what are the other problems that may arise if you limit yourself to living without much hustle and bustle and in tranquillity ? internet speed? scams? blackmail? bad services or what?

And knowing Spanish, I manage to understand a lot of Italian and especially contextual conversations, wouldn't Italians understand Spanish the way I understand their language? At least to communicate minimally?

Aside from the tax aspect, living in Italy with a family is pretty miserable. I lived there, and experienced it. Other friends have done it as well and told me the same thing.

Aside from the lack of childcare, there is no child infrastructure (no children park where they can get some fresh air and exercise for instance), society is old, ageing, municipalities are governed by insufferable boomers that absolutely hate children. Every town is car-centric, even the old ones clearly not designed for this. There is no public transportation. Walking in most of the towns is a struggle in itself, due to the insane parking everywhere.

You'll have to get angry daily about the wankers and the silly geese with Vuitton bags that park their Fiat 500 on the side walk and prevent you from walking freely with your pram. The Italian health system is overloaded with old people coming to the hospital for any reason, and they always have the priority over the young, the pregnant women, and the children. Private health services are expensive and doctors are so-so.

People will look down on you because you have more than two children, send you mail because you make noise during the day. You'll be kicked out of restaurants more or less politely because the local boomers don't want to deal with the potential annoyance. Yeah, you'll see people saying nice things on some occasions, however the crude reality is that society has given up with the idea of having children, and you'll feel it very well every day. The amount of old people with no grandchildren is heart-crushing, and I witnessed a few times old ladies almost breaking up in tears when they could hold my son's hand.

Add the African immigration that flocks in, and really, you don't want to live in Italy with your family. Just go there on holidays.

Is it really that bad? Could it be that you were in a municipality that is very out of the average?

Africans, I believe that the majority do not stay in Italy and go to countries where they have more opportunities to obtain money from "social" aid, so around that I do not think it will get worse in the medium term.

 

[JohnLocke]

There are always two sides to the same story. From what I've heard, it's not as grim in Italy for families with children as you describe it. I haven't lived there, so I don't know. I think one should go to the place where they plan to live and see the situation for themselves firsthand.

 

[BarleyMalt]

Is it really that bad? Could it be that you were in a municipality that is very out of the average?

Africans, I believe that the majority do not stay in Italy and go to countries where they have more opportunities to obtain money from "social" aid, so around that I do not think it will get worse in the medium term.

Italy's dismal fertility numbers exist for a reason, and have been at the bottom of the rich world for a long time. Italy is also the country where the mean age of women at first child is the highest (31.6 years), due to the lack of childcare. It's very common to see a 30+ women with a child and a husband who's clearly 50+. People have mainly replaced babies with...dogs. Only in Italy you'll see dogs in 1000€+ prams pushed by 50 years old people.

Overall, communist municipalities provide better public services and, sometimes, childcare facilities.

Re:African immigration, industrial municipalities of the North have plenty of them, esp. when you get out of the Disneyland city centers. Meloni, who was heralded by the media as one step before Mussolini, has pledged to import 500k of them each year, and given Italy's catastrophic demography, and boomer democracy, what's next won't be a surprise.

There are always two sides to the same story. From what I've heard, it's not as grim in Italy for families with children as you describe it. I haven't lived there, so I don't know. I think one should go to the place where they plan to live and see the situation for themselves firsthand.

I have lived there, so I speak from experience. Frankly, ask any Italian in his 30s, he'll tell you more or less the same.

 

[Anzein]

Italy's dismal fertility numbers exist for a reason, and have been at the bottom of the rich world for a long time. Italy is also the country where the mean age of women at first child is the highest (31.6 years), due to the lack of childcare. It's very common to see a 30+ women with a child and a husband who's clearly 50+. People have mainly replaced babies with...dogs. Only in Italy you'll see dogs in 1000€+ prams pushed by 50 years old people.

View attachment 6145

Overall, communist municipalities provide better public services and, sometimes, childcare facilities.

Re:African immigration, industrial municipalities of the North have plenty of them, esp. when you get out of the Disneyland city centers. Meloni, who was heralded by the media as one step before Mussolini, has pledged to import 500k of them each year, and given Italy's catastrophic demography, and boomer democracy, what's next won't be a surprise.


I have lived there, so I speak from experience. Frankly, ask any Italian in his 30s, he'll tell you more or less the same.

So Meloni was just controlled dissidence? The birth rate seems dark, but are they really going to be importing 500,000 each year? Maybe they changed the immigration laws and they will only bring them in to have them with temporary contracts and then they will be required to leave? Or will it simply be like before where they will be allowed to enter and stay or go to other EU countries... because if it is the latter, it really is an assisted suicide, based on the fact that it does not take a lot of population to maintain a functional country.

 

[BarleyMalt]

So Meloni was just controlled dissidence? The birth rate seems dark, but are they really going to be importing 500,000 each year? Maybe they changed the immigration laws and they will only bring them in to have them with temporary contracts and then they will be required to leave? Or will it simply be like before where they will be allowed to enter and stay or go to other EU countries... because if it is the latter, it really is an assisted suicide, based on the fact that it does not take a lot of population to maintain a functional country.

I checked, the 500k number is more for 23-25: https://archive.is/UBSG3#selection-2125.125-2134.0

Between this, the lack of action regarding the recent migrant waves and the very strong atlanticism regarding Ukraine, Meloni is often seen as a disappointment.

Also, “temporary workers” always get mutated into permanent ones, as business owners do not want to lose the workers that they trained.

Anyway, back to the topic : if Italy proposes tax breaks for families, bear in mind that it comes with some downsides. Maybe for high net worth individuals who can afford private caretakers (and/or fly them in) and have a choice of where they live, it's interesting?

 

[Cavaliere]

True. I am from italy (north italy) and I can tell you the south is like a different state. Really beautiful, nice for vacation but absolutely not a place to live.

Wouldn't every Northern Italian say that? Bari and Catania are not too bad. Of course you are going to be ripped off, it's like that everywhere in the world where you are from a country that's richer esp. when they know you have money and especially when you flaunt it. And if you're American, well, I could watch that s**t all day. Especially when they say they're Italian too.

 

[JoeyMess]

Wouldn't every Northern Italian say that? Bari and Catania are not too bad. Of course you are going to be ripped off, it's like that everywhere in the world where you are from a country that's richer esp. when they know you have money and especially when you flaunt it. And if you're American, well, I could watch that s**t all day. Especially when they say they're Italian too.

Yeah problably every nothern italian says that. But the differences in the way of living, the mindset and everything are hard to explain. Dont get me wrong I visit the south every year once or twice but living there or worse have a business there... No never

 

[JohnnyDoe]

A local explaining what will happen to a foreigner moving to the south:

 

[eklia]

Italian people don't speak English, you cannot live there without speaking Italian.

Como, Trento and Bolzano (provinces included) are the best places where to live a quality and safe life, the rest is just chatter.

Milano and south Italy are bad.

 

[JoeyMess]

Italian people don't speak English, you cannot live there without speaking Italian.

Como, Trento and Bolzano (provinces included) are the best places where to live a quality and safe life, the rest is just chatter.

Milano and south Italy are bad.

I would say in Como, Trento and Bolzano you you can live without speaking italian. Especially the younger people speak english quite well.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

In Trento and Bolzano they speak German. I hardly understand something when people from Bolzano try to speak Italian. But these are very nice areas where to live, you can buy a beautiful maso in the forest and enjoy peace and nature.

 

[JoeyMess]

In Trento and Bolzano they speak German. I hardly understand something when people from Bolzano try to speak Italian. But these are very nice areas where to live, you can buy a beautiful maso in the forest and enjoy peace and nature.

60% are native german speakers. Most of them speak good italian too and some english. On the other hand the italians who live there speak no german.
The nature (dolomites) is awesome but real estate has become hella expensive. Problably because Elon and his friends are all building houses there

La nuova casa di Elon Musk in Italia, in Alto Adige

Una composizione dinamica progettata da BlueArch, con ardite superfici aggettanti, che ambisce a riscrivere i codici dell’architettura alpina.

www.domusweb.it

 

[eklia]

I have been there (I mean Trento and Bolzano) several times and I never had problems speaking Italian.
And probably you can survive there speaking english since the people there are more educated and cultured than other part of Italy. But just survive, not living. They're also multi-cultural people since they're 50% German/austrian and 50% Italian.

There are wealthy and upper-class people there, that's why you can conduct a quality and a safe life. Same thing about Como area (but only Italians there).

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I have been there (I mean Trento and Bolzano) several times and I never had problems speaking Italian.

In the city it is not a problem, but I prefer to hang out with farmers.

And probably you can survive there speaking english since the people there are more educated and cultured than other part of Italy. But just survive, not living.

You can survive everywhere today with an automatic translator.

They're also multi-cultural people since they're 50% German/austrian and 50% Italian.

Always 51% German minimum

 

[JoeyMess]

In the city it is not a problem, but I prefer to hang out with farmers.

That is true outside the city you get nowhere if you dont speak german

I know a lot about that region I have family there. Good place to live with family and flat tax regime

 

[crassus54]

In the city it is not a problem, but I prefer to hang out with farmers.

You can survive everywhere today with an automatic translator.

Always 51% German minimum

I would love to live in Italy, but one needs to look at the future without rose-tinted glasses.

The replacement happening in Italy from migration and low birth rates means either:

- A civil war will happen (Look at Lebanon when Muslims went from ~40% to ~60%)
- The population will be subdued, and the country will turn into Africa.

I live in Western Europe, and I can tell things are going to get bad in the next 10 years, same in the States. This is very bad for business, and I hope these issues can be resolved in a civilized manner, although I do not see it happening anytime soon.

I am now in Budapest, and will consider living here as long as the regime stays up, the city is safe, clean, and has architecture that one can appreciate without having to look at without ****** ******* in the street.

 

[eklia]

I would love to live in Italy, but one needs to look at the future without rose-tinted glasses.

The replacement happening in Italy from migration and low birth rates means either:

- A civil war will happen (Look at Lebanon when Muslims went from ~40% to ~60%)
- The population will be subdued, and the country will turn into Africa.

I live in Western Europe, and I can tell things are going to get bad in the next 10 years, same in the States. This is very bad for business, and I hope these issues can be resolved in a civilized manner, although I do not see it happening anytime soon.

I am now in Budapest, and will consider living here as long as the regime stays up, the city is safe, clean, and has architecture that one can appreciate without having to look at without ****** ******* in the street.

You don't know about Italian people.
So the tolerance threshold of Italians will surprise you.

It's been decades that they're suffering, but they have a huge tolerance, no one is protesting in the street.
The only one protest for Italians is when they speak with familiars at dinner and they complain about how low their salary is, taxes and about the problems of the country.
They just continue with their life of suffering and that's all. It will continue for more decades. Civil war is the last thing that could happen.
I agree about the country will become like Africa, to be honest that's already happened but you can still have a quality life by living in specific places.