Why people paying fee for custody or wealth management , when you can buy low fee index fund etf by yourself ?

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rowena

Entrepreneur
Also maybe not exprienced, but I would say a portfolio with 1-4 ETF's could get the same return.
Probably higher return with lower fees.

Like pictet 0.3% custody fee and something like 0.7% execution fee.
The rates are very high plus you will pay swiss stamp tax. I closed my UBS account several years ago. Switzerland is good for CH residents or $100M+ people. Why don't you check other stable jurisdictions Luxembourg or Singapore?

Guys, please remember that all the banks and brokers work in the same way, they always did and they will always do. You are just constantly fooled in slightly different ways.
This is the best explanation:
This.
 

backpacker

Entrepreneur
you will pay swiss stamp tax.
This one reason why buying a bond ETF through a Swiss bank or Swiss broker is not a good idea.
Considering the awkward stamp duty it is better to buy individual bonds OTC where no stamp duty applies. Same with mutual funds where stamp duty is only charged during emission of shares (purchase), not when redeemed.
So, it largely depends what you buy: ETF's and stocks are settled with stamp duty twice (buy/sell), mutual funds only during emission (buy) and foreign bonds sold to a non-resident via OTC are settled without stamp duty. There are many more exceptions.
 

denniz07

Active Member
As to their operations, I can testify that they are very quick to reject clients’ applications smi(&%
Didn't got rejected fast, so far. They actually said that they would like to onboard me and the conditions seems to be quite nice (even compared to Maerki Baumann).
To be honest fast reject or approval is very good. Better than to do it very slow.

The building in Geneva looks good, they did a good renovation.
Haha, not sure how much it says about them. Always suspicious about the nice building of the private banks... anyway guess since they are traded publicly they may be a bit more secure than the smaller private banks.
 

Valdotti

New member
Actually just wanted to buy and hold strategy. Was not sure about bonds. Would maybe buy iBoxx $ High Yield Corporate Bond ETF

Exactly, this is what UBS offered. In my case they choose Sumitomo MITSUI, hope it goes well, although they are not A+ but for a month it is fine I guess. 4% intrest rate - 0.375% fees.
But here again, I guess an IB01 ETF might even be better. Yield would be kind of the same and risk is lower, since the ETF invests in Tbills. Of course doesn't make sense with the high execution fees.


Custody
< CHF 500’000 0,50 %
< CHF 1’000’000 0,40 %
< CHF 5’000’000 0,30 %
> CHF 5’000’000 0,25 %
Additional 0,3% for digital or metals ex. gold.

Execution fees stocks and bond's nearly the same. Percentages in Switzerland / Foreign.
< CHF 50’000 1,00 % 1,25 %
< CHF 100’000 0,90 % 1,15 %
< CHF 200’000 0,80 % 1,00 %
< CHF 500’000 0,50 % 0,60 %
< CHF 750’000 0,30 % 0,40 %
< CHF 1’000’000 0,25 % 0,35 %
> CHF 1’000’000 0,20 % 0,30 %

Actually I liked Maerki Baumann, they were kind of fast. Just a bit small and systematic not relevant compared to UBS.

So this is only for execution only account?


Fee Schedule | DBS Private Bank

for dbs singapore, for US equities, it's 0.15% fee for trade and .2% annually for custody.

for other tier 1 jurisdictions, is singapore the best value wise for private banking ? why stay with a swiss bank?
 

backpacker

Entrepreneur
So this is only for execution only account?


Fee Schedule | DBS Private Bank

for dbs singapore, for US equities, it's 0.15% fee for trade and .2% annually for custody.

for other tier 1 jurisdictions, is singapore the best value wise for private banking ? why stay with a swiss bank?
Check the list again: You confused the numbers!
PLUS: There is a fixed annual fee, called DBS Private Bank Service fee, if you do not reach the mininum threshold.
 
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Remoddy

New member
Check the list again: You confused the numbers!
PLUS: There is a fixed annual fee, called DBS Private Bank Service fee, if you do not reach the mininum threshold.
I believe the numbers are correct, aren't they? On the other hand they charge 1.25%/1.5% AUM for discretionary/advisory management services and I doubt they would be happy with execution-only clients. Anybody has information on that?
 

azb1

Mentor Group Gold
I believe the numbers are correct, aren't they? On the other hand they charge 1.25%/1.5% AUM for discretionary/advisory management services and I doubt they would be happy with execution-only clients. Anybody has information on that?
I am not sure but If you have signpass .....You can open account with them ...It is share trading platform of DBS
 

backpacker

Entrepreneur
for other tier 1 jurisdictions, is singapore the best value wise for private banking ?
No.
I believe the numbers are correct, aren't they?
Only for online brokerage.
However, if you only use online brokerage you can just go with Kim Eng or tye brokerage arm of DBS (see post #69 of @azb1 ).
On the other hand they charge 1.25%/1.5% AUM for discretionary/advisory management services and I doubt they would be happy with execution-only clients. Anybody has information on that?
They are more than happy to onboard Execution Only clients. They sell these people the pipe dream of exclusive private baking by offering a camouflaged Vickers service.

If you want to have real private banking service, you have to pick a real private bank! Not a large multinational with a private banking department.
Traditional private banking in it's real sense has nothing to with what most people on here seem to believe it is -> Private banking - Wikipedia
 

Remoddy

New member
No.

Only for online brokerage.
However, if you only use online brokerage you can just go with Kim Eng or tye brokerage arm of DBS (see post #69 of @azb1 ).

They are more than happy to onboard Execution Only clients. They sell these people the pipe dream of exclusive private baking by offering a camouflaged Vickers service.

If you want to have real private banking service, you have to pick a real private bank! Not a large multinational with a private banking department.
Traditional private banking in it's real sense has nothing to with what most people on here seem to believe it is -> Private banking - Wikipedia
Interesting. Could you please elaborate what would be the difference between this and "real private bank"?
Because I'm perfectly fine with online brokerage only if it is paired with better banking experience.

@azb1, I know for sure that you don't even need Singpass. A friend of mine opened an account with Vickers (quoting a reason like "I want to trade this hot X stocks that are only available on Singapore Stock Exchange") and then used it as a reason to get a bank account with DBS (retail, not their private/wealth management arm).
 

JohnnyDoe

Schrödinger's guy
Mentor Group Gold
Interesting. Could you please elaborate what would be the difference between this and "real private bank"?
kind of the same difference between a hostel and a 5 star hotel: both give you a bed to sleep in and some people can’t justify the price of a 5 star hotel even if they can afford it.
However, you can find bed bugs in both.
 

backpacker

Entrepreneur
Interesting. Could you please elaborate what would be the difference between this and "real private bank"?
Because I'm perfectly fine with online brokerage only if it is paired with better banking experience.
You are talking about brokerage. Private banking has absolutely nothing to do with brokerage. You can buy securities with a private bank, sure. And you should. However, never even try to use a private bank for daytrading, options or futures trading and the like.
A private bank also doesn't like many in- and outgoing transactions. So, do not use them for everyday banking.
I believe everything is quite well covered in the Wikipedia article I posted in #70 above.

If you are just looking for a better banking experience (not brokerage), simply search for a better bank. So called "affluent banking" should be perfectly fine.
Better brokerage: Look to become a prime customer and it is perhaps already sufficient.
 

denniz07

Active Member
Hello guys,

Wanted to share some of my “insights” regarding private banking, although to be honest I really don’t understand it yet. So I had to cash out rather large sums coming from crypto. Most private banks rejected me but I could get a feeling of the “service”. Some examples:

  • You can discuss asset allocation decisions with them and they kind of give you their “insight” or may warn you at least on wrongdoing
  • PNB-Paribas rejected me even without speaking to me, I was really pissed off to be honest. Was surprised later that I got a call later which really helped me with cashing out. So, they forwarded my number without asking. In this case, it was rather a favor!
  • Pictet, made a very nice impression. Nice building. The people are kind off “interested” in you. Also, here I had kind of a problem with another bank. Although I was rejected, pictet did a call to the other bank and resolved the issue very fast. They knew someone there.
  • UBS offered fixed term deposits to other banks. You get a tax benefit as far as I understand and a bit higher rate, even compared to IBKR on short term. On the other hand they said, we see EUR/USD at 0.9 and few months later they told me I should sell the dollar positions since we expect EUR/USD and CHF/USD to go up, the oposite direction. So that shows that they can’t really beat the market. They also had some interesting products like if you want to buy some stock, you could buy some kind of structure product and get interest rate if your limit price is not executed.
Anyway, I think the examples show that they really try to solve your problems and use their network for it. Guess it is kind of valuable. Also guess they might help you with selling assets or firms. It seems that with the network it’s kind of possible for them.

On the other hand, for pure asset allocation I highly doubt that they can do anything that justifies the fees. Especially it seems that they really like to sell their own funds. All together I’m really not sure what to think about it. Regarding just buying stock’s and so on it doesn’t make sense. Especially not sure what the benefits are in an “execution only” agreements (even here often the fees are 0.3% and the lowest I saw was 0.15%).
All together I don’t think they can beat a simple three-fund portfolio. But in a more complex situation it is worth it, I guess. Also, as I understand they offer tax advice that might prevent you from stupid mistakes.

PS: If I got something wrong, please correct me. In my perspective the main benefits are: Tax advice and access to the network (for selling or maybe investing, guess they might even help with jobs and so on).
PPS: Regarding the network, a good tax consulting company may have similar access and could consult you as well. So still not sure about the advantage of a private bank...
 
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turtle

New member
DBS is a very good private bank they're happy to open an account for execution only. The pricing list is correct but it is cheaper than that in reality. You can simply ask your RM for discount and they will give you %30-50 less price than the list for both transaction fees and custodian fees ;)
 

Jorozey

Mentor Group Gold
DBS is a very good private bank they're happy to open an account for execution only. The pricing list is correct but it is cheaper than that in reality. You can simply ask your RM for discount and they will give you %30-50 less price than the list for both transaction fees and custodian fees ;)
I confirm. I use a corporate account with them since a year for crypto <-> usd/euro related transactions and have had no issues so far. I recommend them.
 

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