WTF Portugal?!

[pixbix]

I don't think most people are moving to Portugal for women. If anyone is factoring women into a moving decision then they have already lost.

I disagree. Would you like to live in a nice place, or in a safe house in Somalia just because it's cheap, it have no income tax and also is crypto-tax free?

You must have visited a different Dubai (ref to item 3 above)

And STDs

Cheap version of Russia

Cheap version of Dubai

Pussy? In Dubai? Like... how can i get a girlfriend in Dubai? Or i have to pay 700$/hour for escorts? with 700$ i can keep 2 happy girlfriends in Colombia, or Russia.

So Basically, if I am a programmer, and i work for an US friends, can i bet taxed 0% in Portugal ?

Portugal - Individual - Taxes on personal income

Detailed description of taxes on individual income in Portugal

taxsummaries.pwc.com

or i will have to pay taxes like mentioned here:

Self-employed registration Portugal - get Freelance visa - E-residence

Self-employment registration in Portugal Fast and simple ✅ Work legally and pay taxes in Portugal ⚡ Issue official invoices to your clients online ⚡ Apply for residence as a freelancer

e-residence.com

Portugal is actually on TOP #3 as the highest tax country.

List of countries by tax rates - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://i.ibb.co/VLnC4WN/taxes.jpg

 

[Praetorian]

Is it like Latin America or Ukraine where i put my photo online as a white man, and i get 500 matches/day ? Can I just talk 5 minutes to a girl and touch her pussy and bring it to a toilet, forest, park , for some fun ? I tried to use Badoo too in Portugual / Spain , nobody added me.Maybe they use Tinder, i don't want to pay on Tinder as i have an "anonymous card" I don't want to link to my real identity, i only cash money at ATM (no extra fees in Europe)

The girls are easy but i haven't seen crazy amounts of desperate gold diggers who'd f**k anyone just for a free meal or prospect of marrying a naive expat lol. With that said you still need some game, it's not Ukraine or Colombia where being an expat makes you a pussy magnet. Portuguese people don't make crazy wages but they aren't piss poor either, especially in the bigger cities.

And @Martin Everson said it well, never move to a place with women in mind, focus on the more important factors first (Taxation, friendliness to expats, business climate, cost of living, etc)

 

[Jerry1911]

Can I just talk 5 minutes to a girl and touch her pussy and bring it to a toilet, forest, park , for some fun ?

If you get away with this, run away, this is a red flag!!

 

[Martin Everson]

I disagree. Would you like to live in a nice place, or in a safe house in Somalia just because it's cheap, it have no income tax and also is crypto-tax free?

Whats that got to do with factoring women into a moving decision?

 

[Martin Everson]

@pixbix You received your second warning and I deleted your post. You will be banned if you carry on with talk of sexually assaulting women.

 

[anotherone]

I went to Portugal on vacation, and I am happy to share my view on Portgual here. I have visited something like 25 countries, so I can compare. I was influenced by the many youtube videos about Portugals.
I stayed in Porto and drove around Portugal.

First, I understood that the very rich people who bought a house in Portugal didn't live there. They used Portugal as a tool for tax optimization. Portugal is not as international as I thought. For sure, there are students from all over the world in Portugal but apart from this, it is hard to find regular people off season.

There are a lot of real estate scams. Nobody talks about it. I saw many unfinished brand new houses. I saw overpriced apartments. I heard many stories: "problems of regulations, fraudsters who went away with money of real estate owners.

The job market is not bad in Portugal, the job market in Portugal is REALLY bad. Low paid jobs and no jobs. all young people still today leave Portugal to find a job in the northern part of Europe. This is really a hint that something is really bad about this country.

I would not try the ultra left wing majority. It would be suicidal to move to a country where the ultra left has the power.

I had problems with the apartment where I stayed, I had no heating in November for 1 week. Several plumbers came. People who came to Portugal face the same problem.

I understood that people who invest in Portugal take a major risk. Because, they must transfer their money to a bank account of a Portuguese main street bank. They may also buy local assets. Let's imagine you transfer 1 million euros to a bank in Portugal. If Portugal isn't the last destination of your money, the money must transit via Portugal. So, then, the Portuguese tax authorities will exactly see how much money you transfer.
Is it worth trusting them? I don't think so.

By the way, I have heard that all these famous singers from the USA or France who decided to invest in Portugal are moving away. I don't know the reason.

 

[RealDude]

Real estate is a problem in Portugal. Many of them are built cheaply and start to mold after a few years. These moldy buildings are then sold/rent to foreigners. Would not be surprised if it is similar in Dubai/UAE from what i have heard.

 

[thomasparra]

I went to Portugal on vacation, and I am happy to share my view on Portgual here. I have visited something like 25 countries, so I can compare. I was influenced by the many youtube videos about Portugals.
I stayed in Porto and drove around Portugal.

First, I understood that the very rich people who bought a house in Portugal didn't live there. They used Portugal as a tool for tax optimization. Portugal is not as international as I thought. For sure, there are students from all over the world in Portugal but apart from this, it is hard to find regular people off season.

There are a lot of real estate scams. Nobody talks about it. I saw many unfinished brand new houses. I saw overpriced apartments. I heard many stories: "problems of regulations, fraudsters who went away with money of real estate owners.

The job market is not bad in Portugal, the job market in Portugal is REALLY bad. Low paid jobs and no jobs. all young people still today leave Portugal to find a job in the northern part of Europe. This is really a hint that something is really bad about this country.

I would not try the ultra left wing majority. It would be suicidal to move to a country where the ultra left has the power.

I had problems with the apartment where I stayed, I had no heating in November for 1 week. Several plumbers came. People who came to Portugal face the same problem.

I understood that people who invest in Portugal take a major risk. Because, they must transfer their money to a bank account of a Portuguese main street bank. They may also buy local assets. Let's imagine you transfer 1 million euros to a bank in Portugal. If Portugal isn't the last destination of your money, the money must transit via Portugal. So, then, the Portuguese tax authorities will exactly see how much money you transfer.
Is it worth trusting them? I don't think so.

By the way, I have heard that all these famous singers from the USA or France who decided to invest in Portugal are moving away. I don't know the reason.

I did some research and these artists are leaving because tax optimization might not be as interesting as before. Especially around music royalties. When they are high it might be worth it in the short term but when they stop performing and their royalties decrease it’s not as interesting.

 

[JohnLocke]

I think this thread went far out of control.

For now I will close the thread until it is cleaned. Please stick to the topic and don't turn threads like this into something totally off topic!

 

[Sols]

This is the saddest thread ever on this whole forum.

Cleaned it up and banned one user for a month.

 

[backpacker]

Portugal:
This program will be terminated soon ->

Portugal likely to scrap much-criticised 'golden visa' scheme

The Authorisation of Residence for Investment Activity for people from non-EU countries, commonly known as the golden visa programme, has been heavily criticised at home for sending house prices and rents up, and the European Commission has called for the end of such national schemes.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

To much pressure from inside- and outside-forces. Not surprising considering how things develop in the European Union.

 

[Marzio]

This program will be terminated

Wonder if they will also terminate NHR

 

[backpacker]

Wonder if they will also terminate NHR

Most likely. The prime minister made it clear that the Golden Visa program has fulfilled it's purpose. NHR is historically just a derivative.of this Golden Visa program which was initially launched out of the same economic emergence.
Moreover, since NHR is a preferential tax system it does not fit anymore into the spirit of EU tax harmonisation attempts.

 

[Marzio]

If NHR will be faded out there will be only three “paper residencies” left: MM2H, Georgia HNWI and SRRV (which i don’t know much about).

 

[backpacker]

If NHR will be faded out there will be only three “paper residencies” left: MM2H, Georgia HNWI and SRRV (which i don’t know much about).

Georgia HNWI is purely tax related and needs to be renewed yearly. It has no implications on your residency status and, as a standalone tool, is not accepted for DTT purposes.

Whereas MM2H is a long term residence permit without any tax implications.

Only SRRV is lifetime and grants permanent residency. Since the Philippines does not have a 183-day rule and rather qualifies an alien as a tax resident when he/she has the intention to reside permanently in the Philippines (look up the similarities to Indonesian tax legislation), SRRV is the most attractive. However, new limitations have been introduced and it is no longer granted easily.

 

[Konstanz]

These regimes in EU countries will end. That's I am big sceptic of all these Italian lump sum, Portugal HNWI and similar. It can all change very any time.
You build your life in a country with "regime", buy properties and later you will face the reality the "regime" is abolished.

 

[Marzio]

Georgia HNWI is purely tax related and needs to be renewed yearly. It has no implications on your residency status and, as a standalone tool, is not accepted for DTT purposes.

Whereas MM2H is a long term residence permit without any tax implications.

Only SRRV is lifetime and grants permanent residency. Since the Philippines does not have a 183-day rule and rather qualifies an alien as a tax resident when he/she has the intention to reside permanently in the Philippines (look up the similarities to Indonesian tax legislation), SRRV is the most attractive. However, new limitations have been introduced and it is no longer granted easily.

What do you mean Georgia HNWI is not acceptet for DTT? You are awarded Georgia tax residency from Georgian side, then article 4 of DTT will further clarify in which country you will be considered tax resident in case another country will claim you are tax resident there.

Why do you say that MM2H does not have tax implications?

Any foreign sourced income not remitted to Malaysia is tax exempt, this sounds like a very beneficial tax implication to me.

Are those the current requrement for the SRRV? SRRV – Philippine Retirement Authority

 

[backpacker]

What do you mean Georgia HNWI is not acceptet for DTT? You are awarded Georgia tax residency from Georgian side, then article 4 of DTT will further clarify in which country you will be considered tax resident in case another country will claim you are tax resident there.

The Georgian HNWI certificate is not an ordinary tax residence certificate. Not only does it look different, it explicitly states that it has been issued based on your special status. Furthermore, that this status is not based on ordinary residency.
Due to this a foeign tax administration will refuse to grant DTT benefits, if this claim is exclusively based on the presentation of such a certificate.

Why do you say that MM2H does not have tax implications?

Having an MM2H is not sufficient to claim tax residency. MM2H grants the right to stay in Malaysia for an extended period of time. It does not oblige you to stayed. Without tax residency MM2H has zero tax implications.
A residence permit has nothing to do with taxation!

Are those the current requrement for the SRRV?

No, SRRV SMILE doesn't exist anymore. It has been abolished in 2021 when PRA reopened.
Only SRRV CLASSIC is applicable.

Furthermore, internal procedures have been tightened massivley. Today the following applies:
If you are from a Western country that has friendly relations with the Philippines your chances are good to secure the SRRV.
If you are from an exotic country or a territory where the Philippines has certain problems with your application might need more time and the outcome is quite uncertain.
If you are from China, do not waste your time (no more SRRV for them after all the misuse).

It is expected that SRRV terms will be changed soon: More expensive, less countries, again a higher age limit (60).

All documents presented for the application process need to be translated, authenticated, notarized and apostilled.
Money needs to come directly from abroad in US-Dollar and wired by SWIFT to a transactional account (only functional for this one-time procedure) which has to be opened by you in your name in the Philippines. From there your money goes into to a Special Purpose TD in your name at the same bank.

The benefits listed on the website are not applicable in the way listed there (outdated). Specifically points 3. and 6.: No more assistance with other agencies since PRA does not have the workforce for it anymore. Health insurance now has a specfic "resident alien tariff" with lower benefits and higher premium compared to the tariff for resident citizens.

 

[Marzio]

The Georgian HNWI certificate is not an ordinary tax residence certificate. Not only does it look different, it explicitly states that it has been issued based on your special status. Furthermore, that this status is not based on ordinary residency.
Due to this a foeign tax administration will refuse to grant DTT benefits based, if this claim is exclusively based on the presentation of such a certificate.

That is not what i was expecting so game over for GE HNWI since you need to be there 182+ days to be considered tax resident.

Having an MM2H is not sufficient to claim tax residency. MM2H grants the right to stay in Malaysia for an extended period of time. It does not oblige you to stayed. Without tax residency MM2H has zero tax implications.
A residence permit has nothing to do with taxation!

I misread Sarawak's MM2H program where it says that you need to spend at least 15 days a year in Sarawak.

MY has some interesing tax residency options BTW

It is expected that SRRV terms will be changed soon: More expensive, less countries, again a higher age limit (60).

Seems like target are wealthy pensioners.

So for youngsters (30+) the options are:

1. NHR while it last
2. MM2H spending at least 90 days / year in MY + fixed deposit + proof of income

 

[backpacker]

Seems like target are wealthy pensioners.

Yes, and that is understandle.
The Philippines does not want these hostel/tramp/Hippie people anymore. The idea is to market the country actively as a place to retire for the affluent pensioner. Retirees from Japan and South Korea are most welcome, than of course US-citizens.
The Philippines understands quite well that it does not have the infrastructure of Thailand or Malaysia and therefore markets itself with a slightly lower price tag.

So for youngsters (30+) the options are:

1. NHR while it last
2. MM2H spending at least 90 days / year in MY + fixed deposit + proof of income

There is more.
With regards to the Philippines the much overlooked Special Investor's Resident Visa (SIRV). I wrote about it before ->

• Avoiding being taxed by my home country if I emigrate and immigrate back after a few years
• Best country for a freelancer / digital nomad post-covid
• and more; use the search function!

SIRV is perhaps the most attractive residence program in Asia for anybody <50 years of age (current conditions). It is kept like a state secret and you will not see any marketing at all. It goes through the Board of Investments (BoI) and Tourism Infrastructure and Enterprise Zone Authority (TIEZA) which are both poorly managed.